December 10, 1999

Your welcome. Well I agree with what everyone is saying today. I fully believe we should help those whom are poor more so. Luckily, I attend a church that helps those who need help. I believe a true christian should go out of there way. Regardless, if the person in need is christian or not. By our actions others could be won over. We could witness through our actions, not necessarily always words. But if asked then we give credit where credit is due, JESUS CHRIST, our SAVIOUR!!!!!!!!! Well brothers and sisters in CHRIST, this sister is gonna hit the bed. Have a wonderful weekend. Smile, what a wonderful day, that the LORD has made.

Sending sunshine smiles and rainbow hugs.
Love in Christ!

Jay, (you may share this with the list if you wish)

As I read all of the responses on the WTO situation, I also had an uneasiness in my spirit about what I was hearing in the responses. I'm not saying that there wasn't truth in them, but somehow, we seemed to be missing the big picture. And that is not spoken in any sort of condemnation, but simply to say that I would like to add some more to it. Different people have different gifts, and it is given to those who are "watchers on the wall" to have a greater vision, to see farther and wider than others and then to convey what it is they are seeing for the edification of the body. Others will then take that information and act on it or lead the people in what actions to take, based on what God then shows them.

I'm not trying to offend anyone here, and up to this point have been silent in the discussions, preferring to simply listen and see how this was going to work, but I believe that until the memo which was forwarded from Cliff, (gtpatt@juno.com) none of the responses really addressed the issue at hand, as seen through the eyes of the Lord. While each of them carried truth, none seemed to have a grasp of the overall picture. With a few minor exceptions, Cliff's note did. I strongly agree with most of what he said, especially:

"what the Lord told Ezekiel, that HE is not willing that ANY perish. During His earthly ministry, Jesus only went where He saw the Father leading, did only what He saw the Father doing, said onlt what He heard the Father saying.Jesus loves the saved and unsaved alike...He died for us all. He died for those in bondage..those who are not. Those who are sick, those who are well."

This is the true image of Jesus and what we should be pressing in for. Paul said that (Philippians 3:14) "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." What he was pressing towards here, is sonship, in which we truly become transformed into His image. This allows us to love ALL, because we see them, sinner and saint alike through His eyes and His eyes LOVE ALL HIS CREATION. If we do not have this revelation of the Father's heart, then we don't see the whole picture yet. I also like what was said about "christian love" and the Blood of Jesus................

I disagree that "Christian Love" is a struggle to remove sin from the world.The BLOOD of JESUS ONLY can do that.PERIOD.

To be like Jesus, as he was like the Father is "true christian love." My final comment is concerning the following statement.

"If any prophet has an activist spirit I daresay it came not from the Lord of Hosts, but either from his own pride or the lord of this present world."

This is a dangerous presumption to make. I don't believe any of us are in a place yet where we can know the depths of anothers heart and what the Lord is telling them. Only the Father knows what is in the hearts of each of us, so to make a statement that what someone is feeling/hearing/doing etc. is from the enemy, is to place oneself at the place which brought about the fall of man to begin with, "and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." If you do not agree with what someone is doing/saying, then you must release that to the Lord, give it to Him, His Wisdom and His Grace and His Mercy. I'll say it again, I don't believe that any of us are at a place where we can KNOW the heart of men. Our focus should be in loving the Lord and all that is His. This comes from knowing Him (not about Him), hearing and obeying Him. That is true love and if we are to be transformed into His image, then we will be transformed into perfect love. In this, we cannot fail. Amen.

Grace, Love and Mercy to All,



You wrote:

Anyway, the first to respond was someone that I have known for a while:

"Take me off your chat mailing list. Thank you."

See, the issue here is not false doctrines, rather, the issue is getting people from the outer court to the Holy Place. Once this happens all the false doctrines that operate in the outer court will have no effect because the eyes of their hearts will be illuminated by the fire from the golden candlestick and their food will be shewbread. The outer court is open and has only "natural" light as illumination. No wonder christians are deceived.

We could discuss the "issues" for all eternity but if we would set our heart to lead a person to Holy Place were the Holy spirit teaches them all things then false doctrines are a mute issue because they cannot stand in that place.

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Maybe this person doesn't hate activism but rather knows were the real battle lies. The bible says the whole world will be deceived. Why? Because given a choice of staying were they are unprotected or entering into the cleft of the ROCK they choose to stay in the outer court. So Jay if you can use this discussion list to stir up hearts on how to "enter in" you will be miles ahead of trying to expose false doctrines. In the Holy Place no false doctrine exists because all things are brought to light in His presence.


(regarding what was written of that): "Jesus did not participate in such events even though the atrocities and injustices of His day were apparent."

Amen to what Brian wrote, and to what Jay wrote, because it also must be remembered that in our blessed Lord 's time on this earth there was an underground movement of Zealots who advocated violently overthrowing the one world world trade organization of Rome, it ended in the destruction of the Temple and Masada. There is no evidence that our Lord participated in any way in this movement. There were issues of that day that we can see from the texts of the New Testament that aligned themselves with the early church issues (possibly such as the casting out of the money changers and the WTO folks sure resemble them, but not as much as some of the televangeists that have schemed their money from the poor and deluded then spent it on sin), but it must be said and realized that those single issues did not overcome the early church into promulgating non-cooperation with the regime of Rome, (the most autocratic and awful regime that the world had seen probably until the 20th Century) until it came down to the worshiping of the emperor. The zealots parted company with that nonviolent doctrine early on. And some of the zealots were part of the early church and were won over to our blessed Savior's most excellent Way of Love. All of these points are well taken, I may be wrong, but we are a distance from being forced into worshiping anybody's emperor. After writing this I realize the persecuted church is forced to deny Christ every day and it is the same thing. And prayer being taken out of the schools in an autocratic way is somewhat similar. And things could change literally overnight and this vigilance is needed. And I fully realize that throwing out our environmental laws and labor bargaining rights is accepting a kind of worship of a man made idol of wealth (i.e. mammon). I also fully realize that both in the culture of American life being poor is somewhat of a crime. This has crept into the American church as well and there is little done in the evangelical arena for the Gospel for the poor. I live in an area where there is hunger and poverty and the wealthy Churches do very little or nothing to feed the hungry, poor and sick. EVeryone expects the government to do that even if some of the poor and sick and hungry are in their own congregations. I know a brother that has dedicated his life to preaching and housing and helping homeless men into recovery in Christ Jesus. Most of the churches around the valley I live in won't even let him put up fundraising information on their bulletin boards! There is a religious spirit that allows an aspersion to be cast upon the poor that they are that way because of some sin in there life. I fell through the cracks of a system (two surgeries in the last year and not being able to work) and no help from social service agencies at all and I have a young son, and I was helped by the church and brothers in our wonderful Lord and Savior, we must praise Him endlessly, and God is so faithful always, (I've made it through this trial and my faith is strengthened by it and I'm praising Him more because of it) but we are meant to take care of those laying in the ditch and not to walk by, there are a lot of us that walk by if there isn't a label of "born again " put on those whom we should help, just like the good samaritan parable and just like that parable there are those with the right action and the right vigilance who are seemingly unaligned with the Kingdom.. We have to be very careful. The enemy of our enemy may be our friend but only for a season. Yet we can overcome this worry by Love and love only, for we are all nothing without love for one another. I thank the Lord for vigilance of caring brothers like Jay Atkinson and Brian. I pray to our Lord Jesus to forgive those of us who are so uncaring and lost as to be asleep to the needs and dilemmas of those so much more unfortunate than ourselves. And I pray for wisdom for all of us in these uncertain times. Please forgive us and give us a heart for grace and action led by Your Holy Grace our Father in Heaven may we see Your will on earth during these times. In Jesus our precious Savior.

James Kelly

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