Mohammed, A Christian Perspective

November 25, 2001

This has been a tough question and responses hard to answer. I am in no way a spokesman for or against Islam and even less of an authority. There is only one true authority and He must be lifted up in order to draw Muslims to Him. I have yet to receive a loving letter from a Muslim, all being in hatred and condemnation in that I have no right to speak about them at all. Saying the right thing is incumbent upon inspiration. We must be very careful not to speak out of turn.

Probably the best responses this time are from those with the implication that there is just too much baggage that a Muslim brings to be able to accept Jesus in spirit and truth. They already figure that they have all the truth they need and everyone else is wrong. Something all of us had to learn in that it is a immature attitude for sure but the spirit of error has that power upon all of us when we lift ourselves up in pride and false authority over others. What kind of apostle and prophet can Mohammed be if he cannot recognize that Jesus, born of a virgin, is not the son of God? What kind of religion cannot recognize the implication of the cross as a sacrifice for atonement after being exposed to Old Testament prophecy and the sinless life of Jesus?

So in the end, it is the same for all of us; prophets must bear witness with the spirit of prophecy. Mohammed included but that is in his defense as a prophet. Mohammed, like all prophets and apostles, made mistakes. It is up to successive generations to sort the mistakes out through spiritual means. Don't forget that the prophecy to Ishmael was that "he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren" Genesis 16:12. Their brethren includes Christians as well as the Jews whether we are treated as brothers or not, but we need to understand how far God's grace extends. Even to a Muslim? Of course, but the fact of the atoning sacrifice must be understood and accepted for God's grace to be personally received. And the effect must be seen in love, not hatred, condemnation or false authority. This has been the problem in that a pretense of God's authority is manifested by hatred, oppression, sexism, discrimination and murder. Only a strong delusion would see this as the beginning and end of knowledge. We need to break through that.

Again, the answer is love, not hatred, but he whom the Lord loves, He chastens. The more we understand how far God's grace extends, we need to know how far His judgment extends. Christians have made a big mess of the true gospel of Jesus. We have lifted ourselves up and put others down, Jesus taught us the opposite. For sure, our Lord had a lot to say against Jewish religiosity when He was here in the flesh but He would be saying the same words now in the spirit to our own evangelists, pastors and Christian teachers who have become a generation of money grubbing vipers building their own little kingdoms. All many Muslims have seen in Christians sent to them is in the Imperialism that followed. What Islam has not yet recognized, are the true people of God that are walking in the spirit of the living Christ. In that, they cannot be faulted, the blame rests upon our own polluted altars and we are being weighed in the balance.

The greatest false authority of Islam is generated by the traditions of Mohammad found in the Hadith. The Koran is one thing, the Hadith is another. While there are many traditions of justice and mercy, this is where the real hatred comes from in the jihads and denial of women's rights. In the Hadith is found truth mingled with the traditions of the elders, doctrines of demons, spurious recollections and fabrications of the words of Mohammed, years after they were supposedly given and yet considered inspired. No one today was there to support or deny the claim of fabrication but wisdom sees right through false authority, control and manipulation.

Those are not true Muslims or followers of Muhammad that come to destroy, they have chosen the powers of darkness, unable to repent and come to the light. They may be the power of Abaddon himself from the hordes of hell and God has used such powers before to judge His people but that is not justification. Where Christians and Moslems are so similar is that so many are unable to repent and put away their own false thinking. While the Koran tells us that Moslems are not to take Christians and Jews as friends and protectors, it also speaks well of "those of the book." Mohammed speaks highly of Jesus as the Messiah and of Christians in general. "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve." Sura 2.62.

Please, read on. Again, a mixed bag but all founded upon the truth from a Christian perspective. We cannot save all Muslims but it is not up to us to condemn them either. God wishes none to perish and there are those that will be baptized in God's Holy Spirit. I know it, I believe it, we will see it happen.

This next time, let's see what we can speak of the Muslim women. These may be the most oppressed minority in the world today but also may be the key to reaching them. Women of Islam are so afraid and so condemned to hell by Muslim men that Jesus can now be seen as the only answer for them. Islam has consistently failed Moslem women, we have a duty to embrace them and bring them into the spirit.

Get back to me on the issue of the women of Islam.


Do Moslem must put away Mohammad to come to Jesus?

Moslem declares, Ala is God and Mohammad his prophet.

What kind of prophet is this one that can not recognize Jesus as the only God? And this after the gospel message has already been spread in all that region. And what kind of god is this one that his prophet rejects the basis of everything that has been taught by his messenger Jesus, and even though, constitute a great religion that is deceiving millions of people and driving them away from the grace of God, and salvation in Jesus name. I agree, hatred is not acceptable to "Christians" or non Christians. And again I agree, moslems need to be loved. But, like any other human being that has not met the way, the truth and the life. So, there is no way of coming to Jesus and conciliate the teachings of Mohammad, by the end, it means to deny Mohammad. Finally, Ala, the god of Mohammad, can not be the same God and father of Jesus. Ala heaven is not the same, the relationship with the believers is not the same, the salvation is not the same, the revelation is not the same, the gospel is not the same. Ala is a deceiving spirit that is leading so many precious people to die without Knowing the truth.

Marcos, Brazil


I admire you for the knowledge you have gained regarding the Muslim faith. In the past couple of years, I have tried to study some of the other religions that seemed to me to oppose the Christian faith. I haven't gone to the extent you have. I am prone to try to hear what the spirit of God is speaking through you and through Dave. This is different, and not in our norm. There are rivers that we cannot cross until we walk in the authority Jesus gave us to walk in. That applies to our own Christian faith as well as understanding the belief systems of other faiths. Unless we have some understanding, we cannot intelligently discuss these matters with anyone.

Let me put this out. I strongly feel that there is a place of oneness in Christian faith that we all must arrive at and this is spoken of in Ephesians 4:13. Look at the many variations of The Standard of Measure - Jesus, in our own Christian faith. I really feel that until we, as a Body, are all walking by the same Christ pattern, we cannot really shine the Light to others outside of Christianity who need Christ.

I can see a time where Christ is going to be revealed in such abundance of Light, people will come running in multitudes and multitudes. They will come from all walks of life and many will come out of their "religions". The Light will be very, very great. Peter's shadow was cast because he walked by a greater light and that light enveloped everyone it touched. This was life changing encounters with God and that is what we are pressing in for.

The coming Exodus is going to bring the Body into that oneness of faith and the knowledge of God will come as we press deeper into His presence. The thing is, we will have to know the pattern of Christ. There will be so many different expressions of Christ and the Word of God and the creativity of the Holy Spirit, we will be continually awestruck. But.....we must know what is of Jesus and what is not. The spirit to spirit connection that allows Life to flow through the Body will set the true apart from the counterfeit.

I really don't know that much about the Koran, but what I hear most are the many rules of the religion. Many rules of religion come under the law of sin and death because under the law, we are having to justify our own righteousness before God. The only connection that I can make at this point with Dave's Word and Jay's desire to connect with the Muslims is this:

I have seen visions of clouds for a few years now. I told you about the rainbow (the arches) versus the dark clouds. Under the law, the law is made manifest in our lives according to what we have bound in our heart. It is from the baptism of these clouds, that bring us to repentance because we drink from our own judgment. "The people were baptized unto Moses". John the Baptist, baptised in the wilderness and his baptism made straight the way for the Lord. Elijah is now being made manifest to do the same and to turn the fathers back to the children. I NEVER limit the manifestation of the Word to one season, or one "body". I see the two witnesses as Moses and Elijah and they are manifest in the Body as a great cloud of witness.

I see Son of Man revealed in the clouds. I also believe that we will see Jesus in His Body coming in the clouds, but I do not limit the planting of the seed of the Word to that season. Jesus became sin so that in His death, His baptism we could be reconciled back to God. "We are buried with Him" as we are baptised in Him. Son of Man is conceived by the Holy Spirit and "born" of flesh. The 2nd heaven is the sum of the Word of God plus man's flesh - carnal nature that satan is the father of. Under the rule of the 2nd heaven, we are in a cycle of death - 2nd day. Jesus died as Son of Man, but rose as Son of God. I can see how Jesus took all of this sin into His own body and poured out his life where there was no life.

To be in the land of Egypt, under the waters of the 2nd heaven, is to be dead spiritually. I am about to submit a Word to you guys and in that Word I am saying that I can see the (Corporate) church is about to cross over in a new Exodus. If the corporate church is in Egypt and the Muslims are in Egypt......hmmmm, can the pot call the kettle black? We can only cross over "in Christ" and I believe that Light is about to shine in a big way. The Light may become manifest as we are all lined up on the river bank and the Muslims and others see and perceive Jesus because He is being manifest in His people. We know that we are in transition. From what to what? From the 2nd day to the 3rd day. The 2nd day is that part of dying and bring to death. Uh Oh, the Living God and the Life is revealed in the 3rd day. OK now, remember we are all friends here, heehee.

Can't wait to hear your response!



Hello Jay; I thank GOD for your article and the posts. It has opened up a new way of thinking for me. I have traveled around 3/4 of the earth seeing different cultures, different religions and customs. The Islams I met in their countries always treated me with a distant respect. It took about a week for 9/11 to sink into my conscious, I was in shock thinking about the pure evil that was done. But GOD has used this evil for good (everyone pulling together). I look around everyday and see people furious with other races for what a few have done. I cannot share in this attitude. I am sick in my heart about how people are reacting even christians. I dont think a Moslem must put away Mohammad to come to Jesus. Let them have a chance to hear the WORD. Then let Jesus convict them through HIS HOLY SPIRIT if they are wrong. I am not scared of what has happened. Jesus told us that these things must come to pass. Yes I even love Bin Laden and pray for him to come to the knowledge of CHRIST.

I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for you all.
Please Pray for me.

you know jay the lord put it in my heart too for ben laden, the lord says he wants no man to perish, he also says pray for your enemies and this is what i've been doing. Is this not the right attitude for God's children to have? Should we not be seeing and feeling what God feels? Who are we to judge this man. Maybe if we were all to pray for his soul, God would have mercy on him. i know what he has done is wrong but are sins were no different. we were blessed to have someone praying for us. who's to say maybe god has hardened his heart to fulfill his prophecy but i just really feel we should be praying for him, not making fun of him. Please tell me if im wrong, i really trust your wisdom god has given you thanks

i read your stuff faithfully.

Jay, as you have read my research, you already know that i cannot & do not hate Moslems, however i recognize their "separate avenue," and am emphatic about them being outside the realm of redemption if they will not accept Jesus Christ as Son of God, Son of Man, & Personal Savior. having said that, they (Moslems, Jews & others) still have a chance until their last breath, as do the rest (purported Christians included). i don't think Moslems necessarily have to give up Mohammed in all respects any more than a Christian must relinquish a worldly icon such as Martin Luther because of obvious imperfection. i am a Lutheran, however, i do not worship him. i am a Christian first, and everything else a very distant second. denominations, like many other man-made institutions are inherently faulted. while there is much good that these men have done, and there are many examples of their teaching, behavior and tenacity, that are worth understanding and emulating, we must be able to discern between their contribution to the culture and the myth that tends to grow up around them which generally clouds or distorts the truth. we must always make it our business to separate spiritual fact from secular fiction. note that Islam is a formidable adversary, and that it is gathering converts faster than any other faith movement. there is a spiritual crisis being visited upon us! that is a fact!

Sean Lawrence

The Bible says, " I am the truth and the light. No man comes to the Father except by Me". I am the Gate, Jesus said.
John Decker

I like what you've written Jay; it's in the right spirit.

Bless you,
John G.

It is an interesting question. The basis of Islamic belief is that Jesus did not die on the cross and that He was not resurrected. To be a Muslim one must believe that the Quoran is correct when it reveals that God/Allah has no son and that Jesus is NOT THE SON OF GOD.

Paul's purpose was to preach the cross Would he become one who says that there was no cross? and that Jesus is not the Resurrection?

I thought our salvation was because of our belief in the atonement. Can we be saved believing that there was and is no atonement? That we can go to heaven by our good works alone?

Will He not become as a Muslim, to save a Muslim? I say, He as us, is wanting us to see this Violent Work of Love, as Stephen shared, Love's Violence released in all the earth; A Love that would rather die than kill another; A Love that would rather sacrifice itself for the well being of another; A Love which NEVER fails. A Love which will become all things to all men... it will lay down its life for the sake of the one who might be saved as a result of its demonstration of the ever-giving nature of Agape.

Gary and Wendy Meuse

All those to whom Paul became "as" -- becoming "as" a Jew; or "as" one under the law; or "as" one not under the law) -- all of these are held captive to gospels "which are no gospel at all." It would be the same degree of 'falling shortness' to become "as a Jew, to save a Jew" -- as it would to become "as a Muslim, to save a Muslim". For both Jews and Muslims deny that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah ... yet the Scripture is very clear, Paul would become like either of these (a Jew -- or as one under the Law (Muslim) that he might save the one. (We also would be very hesitant to make Paul's statement that 'he' would save the one too, wouldn't we!)

Scripture teaches us that Paul would become 'all things to all men' that he might save some. I don't think this is a matter of compromising any convictions -- it is a matter of love-relationship. Meeting all others where they are 'at' (which is the root meaning of the word "mercy") and becoming 'like them' to the degree that Christ in us makes the kinship-connection.

Jesus didn't compromise Himself by becoming 'like us' -- yet He did lay aside the Glory that was His in Heaven, humbling Himself - taking the very form of a servant... becoming our kin, our elder Brother while we were yet sinners.

I think the Lord is teaching us (the Church) much more about intercession --from His Heavenly perspective.

I believe that even as Esther was willing to lose her life by going into the King unsummoned -- interceding for her brethren.... that the Church too shall rise up in the Glorious and Divine Intercession that our Husband, Jesus is releasing upon her even now -- that we might go to the Father, relying on His Unmerited Favor and Love given to us in Christ, asking that the edict issued against our brethren might be reversed; that the demonic bondage that holds all people captive to the lie of human perfectionism by lawkeeping/works, be reversed as in the days of Purim -- that the Grace of God would be poured out upon all those who belong to Jesus, that they might come out of the darkness into the Glorious Light of His Love. Christ Jesus has an inheritance in all parts of the world -- from every ethnic group and every land, there is a people who belong to Him. It is this people, His Inheritance, His nachal, that Love's Vengeance is targeting even now, in the Spirit --ready to battle in Love for the sake of the brethren held captive to a false gospel.

This isn't a message of compromise of the Truth of the Gospel -- it is a going forth of the Truth of the Gospel in the lives of the believers, radiant in the Love of God, not so much speaking the message but rather 'being the message' -- Living Epistles of Love -- that all men might see the One that they pierced and fall to their knees in repentance and great grief. Love not just in words and tongue -- but in Action!

Love, Linda

I agree with you Linda that becoming all things to all people is an action of love for them, not compromise. When Paul circumcised Timothy, it was upon that basis so as not to offend the Jews. I do believe however that there is a good point in what Gary and Wendy say in becoming part of falsehood for the sake of others may not always be the way to go. There has to be a middle ground between love and truth that would fulfill present truth in this situation. It is true that Mohammed did not have a corner on the truth and that much of what he said was false. The same can be said of Luther, Calvin and Wesley, for that matter we could pick apart Billy Graham and see the errors in his theology. We can understand that but to a closed minded Moslem that thinks that everything that Mohammed wrote is gospel truth and not to be challenged, that spirit precludes any further revelation. Their minds and hearts need to be opened through the Holy Spirit and it can only come through love and acceptance.

I still believe that Mohammed was a prophet but no prophet is infallible. We have been taught that prophets judge each other and there should be the witness of two or three in the spirit to test prophetic words. Muslims have no such recourse, he is as "ex cathedra" as the Pope or Calvin where falsehoods cannot be spiritually recognized by their adherents. There is no progressive revelation among them like we have to refine and perfect our understanding of truth.

A couple of years ago, my daughter mentioned a Muslim friend of hers and wondered how I would react to that. I told her that she could tell her friend that I believed in One God and that I "submit" myself to Him and that I also believed that Mohammed was a prophet. What that meant in effect is that I was a Muslim and I personally acknowledged that fact in that I knew that it was becoming a Muslim in order to save a Muslim. Does that make me any less of a Christian? Not at all but just as their are Messianic Jews, there must be Messianic Muslims for me to bother with the question at all. I have never heard of these two words being used in a sentence before and just now did a search and found a Charisma magazine article which noted that Youth With a Mission (YWAM) is attempting just that. In the article is written:

Messianic Muslims" who continue to read the Koran, visit the mosque and say their daily prayers but accept Christ as their Savior are the products of the strategy, which is being tried in several countries, according to Youth With a Mission (YWAM), one of the organizations involved. Reactions to the practice from other missionary leaders have ranged from "sympathetic criticism" to "enthusiastic support," according to a report in "The International YWAMer," the mission's staff newsletter, which details how the tactic is being applied by a church planter in Asia. He told of around 50 members of a Muslim family who had decided to become followers of Christ, forming a small fellowship. "They continued a life of following the Islamic requirements, including mosque attendance, fasting and Koranic reading, besides getting together as a fellowship of Muslims who acknowledge Christ as the source of God's mercy for them." They also meet according to mosque traditions in a style that the leader said would "horrify" many Western Christians. But he said that the strategy was biblical, referencing the early church in Jerusalem where "Jewish followers of Christ became more zealous to keep the law and Jewish customs.

They are risking their life of course, in many countries it is a death sentence but look at the rewards in eternal life.
Praise the Lord.



I'm realizing as you do that what the scriptures say is true. It may or may not have beans to do with what we believe. Jesus said this in St. John 18:37 "...Everyone that is of truth hears my voice." Being of truth is passive, that's what you and I have received of him. He does that for us. We are predestined of truth and destined to hear his voice because we are of truth. There has to be some in Islam also of truth. Amen. The callings of God are by Spirit not race, family, religion, nation, ect. Cornell Harris


Hi Cornell,

This is a real good answer and the one that we must proceed with to give witness to anyone that has not yet found the truth. Of course Muslims believe that they have found the truth but just as many Christians, it is only half truth and that is not enough. The truth that Jesus offers in Himself as being the truth is what frees us from the bondage of religiosity and the traditions of men. Absolute truth comes from a God of love and grace regardless of any false notions and once the power of the Holy Spirit can guide us into all truth, we came come to the point of finally agreeing. That hasn't happened yet.

If Mohammed is considered the final prophet among us, then there is nothing more to discuss. But that is not from the Truth. Unfortunately, he is considered the final prophet among those that believe it but the fact is that but God still speaks though us. The same attitude comes from those that believe that the Christian Bible is the end to revelation and the spiritual gifts are no longer needed, there is nothing more to learn for them or from them simply because present truth is hidden. All that is left is interpretation and commentary on past revelation.

How fortunate we are to be among those that God is raising up these days to bring us into the promised restitution of all things and reveal these mysteries and hidden wisdom. I know that sounds a little presumptuous but true nevertheless, it is an exiting time for us.


Jay, I think that Jesus/God is on His throne and all has been prepared for in the ingathering of Moslems and as well as Jews. God has a plan and although we don't fully understand it, we are going to be His tool to fulfill it - if we walk in the Holy Spirit day-by -day. We don't have to fiqure out how or who God is going to save, we just have to be obedient to the Holy Spirit to be fruitful and to accomplish all of God's plans.

P.S. it still is exciting and important to pursue God for revelation which becomes inspiration for obedience and faith.

Paul Weigel

You know Jay, God loves us all, that is the reason he died for all of our sins. he have ask uto hear his word, believe it, repent of our sins, confess our faults, and be buried(Baptized) with him in baptism, and we would arise a new creature in Christ Jesus. There is on ly one, Lord, one Faith and one Baptism, one God and Father of all, there is only ONE CHURCH and that is christ's church, (Church of Christ) that is the only church one can become a member of, stay faithful until death, in order to make Heaven our home, there is no other according to God's


Make Mine the Lamb Chop

GREETINGS everyone,

Does anyone remember that bit in "The Cross and the Switchblade" about the "Lamb Chop school of evangelism"? It was put forward that it is futile to attempt to take away the things in a persons life which do not conform to the clear will of God, the things (in this case drug, violence and sex addiction) which they have become very fond of and that give them pleasure, albeit sinful pleasure. It was suggested that, when we have become addicted to certain things, we are like a dog with a bone: try and take it away and the dog will guard it viciously. Offer it the lamb chop and it will drop it immediately. We offer the living Christ.

I was thinking that this works as a wise principle even among us who know Jesus, since we can get very fond of our own opinions and ways of doing things, that we are loathe to surrender them. But when Jesus comes to us there is no contest, nothing that isn't of Him is worth holding onto.

Then, since I met someone this week who has converted to Islam, I was thinking, does that apply to our current question regarding whether someone would need to deny Muhammad to accept Jesus. My meeting was interesting in that this very intelligent, gentle man had been through the church and found nothing that worked for him until he discovered Islam. Are we ashamed or what. During our conversation we were approached by someone giving Christian tracts, who proceeded to confront my friend with his "error" by pressing in with his opinion and by picking holes in my evangelism. It wasn't long before the coversation ended.

Those born into Islam, growing up within, taking on the religious roles and routines that are part of that religion, don't seem to me to be much different from those in christendom to me. So many of us the world over, are simply without Christ, and religion of any sort isn't going to give him to us.

One encounter with the Living Lord makes people very set in their ways surrender everything. We are to expect to see this these days. We are to expect to see it in anyone, anywhere.

The thing is, what is it that you and I are offering, what is it that others see in us that they need? When they meet us, do they know they have met with Jesus in us, do they know there is something different happening than they have ever known? In short, what is it we offer, a nice fat juicy tasty lamb chop? Or just another dry bone?

LOVE to you!

Dear Jay,

This just reminds me that we Christians need to make the effort to reach out to each other and to understand each other's faiths and religions and worship styles and different versions of the Christian Holy Bible. That we need to work upon our prejudices, hatred, misunderstanding and misinformation in the Body of Christ with special emphasis among Catholic, Protestant and East Orthodox Christians. For we Christians to practice James 4:11-12 among ourselves and not to harshly criticize each other and to work towards forgiveness and healing within the Body of Christ. Once we Christians began to work towards loving each other through the loving eyes of Our Lord, Yahweh, then we will be able to let go of our one dimensional viewpoint of each other and to listen to each other with open minds and then we will be able to reach out to our Muslim brothers and sisters with love and not judgmental. For we will leave the judging of the contents of our brothers and sisters hearts: whether they be Catholic, Protestant, East Orthodox Christians or Muslims to the one and the only judge who is God.

For we were created to be doers of the law and not take the position of being THE judge which there is only one judge: God, Yahweh, Lord, Yeshua.



I think so too Stella, it must begin with us and then we can take the message of Jesus to the masses. So many people are turned off to Christians that they miss Christ. Tragic case of misapplication of the love and unity that Jesus prayed for. A good housekeeper will clean up the house before they invite the guests in.


I think the concept of becoming "like" a Jew, or "like" a Muslim - in order to save -- keeps a 'boundary' there which is a little hard to discern. The kinship message does not mean comprise to the essentials of our faith. One of the essentials of our faith is that righteousness cannot be attained by Lawkeeping. .. no justification, no peace with God is possible through human efforts/works and that all the many manifestations of the 'religion of works' are intended by God, to show us our ultimate failure and need for an external Savior -- an external Savior (the Crucified One) to justify us.. and an internal Savior (Christ in you, the hope of Glory) to sanctify us. This foundational truth can never be compromised or diluted - for to do that would be to destroy the gospel... presenting in its stead, "a gospel that is not." To tack Christianity, onto legalism or onto whatever the localized cultural religions are is not what this kinship message is all about. (or at least it is not in my spirit). Kinship in Love just opens the door for relationship -- it creates the true environment for "truth to be spoken in Love". It is not sitting in judgment and condemnation of another, but it is meeting them right at the place they are -- not to confront and to condemn -- but to manifest the spiritual difference between a New Creation Life -- Jesus Christ IS come in the flesh -- and all the many expressions of will-power religion.. religions where it is left to our created energies to 'save' ourselves by our own works.

I understand the Kinship message in the context of The Most Excellent Way. Rather like Mary's post this morning -- not being 'dry bones' -- but rather becoming that Lamb Chop (wasn't that it -- hehe --maybe Pork Chop) so full of the Irresistible Aroma of Christ Himself, so full of His Love - so full of His Life -- so full of His Glorious-Manifested Holy Irrespirable Loving Presence of God, and then being bonded in that same Love with another ... becoming "Like" them -- not arguing over our differences, just manifesting His Difference in us. Being that "Divine Bait" so to speak -- that He might draw them to Him, through us.

Not confronting nor condoning what we know to be a 'performance' based relationship with God -- but rather being so full of the Truth, that HE, the Truth Himself radiates outward from us -- being the Irresistible Lover that He is, who will woo them to Himself just by being Himself in us. LOVE Incarnate in His Church.

I believe it is the truth though.. that before we can be sent with this Kinship Message -- the understanding of the contrast between law and Grace must have become totally rooted in us.. have become a part of who we are -- otherwise we could be lured into just tacking on Christianity to the religion that we are sent into. I know we have learned this is what the Catholics did... I don't know if this is truth or not. Much of what I learned as 'truth' about the Catholics has proven itself to be wrong.. so I hesitate to say that is what they did..

Ezek 8:15-18 is a Scripture that comes to my mind against this concept of tacking on Christianity to Islam...

May the Holy Spirit continue to teach us how to Walk in Love -- and to Walk in the Light as He is in the Light. Jesus is the LIFE that has been given by the Father that we might, through His Life implanted in us, be restored to right relationship with Him.

I am reading and re-reading what you wrote dearest Timothy --looking for additional understanding that I know I lack. Can one receive Jesus the Christ without knowing that we have received Him? Can we receive Him, just by truly seeking to Know God the Father? Is He, who is the Way -- given to all who ask by their persistent knocking --seeking God.. seeking Good -- is Christ Jesus given, even when they do not want the "Jesus" that has been presented to them?

My basic question to God right now is: Have all true seekers after God, received the New Life, Christ Jesus Himself, even when they do not know Him by Name?

I am still seeking the answer to this.. keep talking dear Latter-rain-lights.

May God fill us with His Truth.. and His Truth Alone.
I love you all,

My dear friends in the L_rd

i want to tell you a story that happened not long ago. I regret that because of certain problems I do not have the proof of this story for I did not receive the email, but the church I attended received this email. I do know this to be true none the less. Here is the story

I cannot give names, a young couple came here to the United States from one of the Islamic countries. they attended a prominent College in Oregon. while there they accepted Jesus as their messiah. From what little bit I do know; on their return to home they stood up for the gospel. No compromise whatsoever. they did not hide what they believed at all. they began to be persecuted. All three children were murdered before their eyes. yet they did not give up their faith. both husband and wife were thrown in separate jails. Here is the part that shows what suffering for Christ can do. the husband brought over 1000 people to Saving grace in Jesus, and the wife at least 700. i do not know if more have come since that time. No compromise here. They are bringing children of Ishmael not trying to alter Islam, or add Jesus into Islam. Radical faith and the love of Jesus Christ is what they have.

We should love all races and respect all people, but NEVER compromise the truth. I see these beautiful people as living proof. I have also met people of other religions. i remember a little girl with her Buddha praying. she was lonely and after her prayer her mother called. what did I have to offer her? to my shame my faith was not like these true saints.

Folks we are soft and full of compromise. I have been full of compromise. i have not brought one person to the L_rd using the method of add Jesus to your faith because my life did not speak Jesus but speaks compromise. Paul ran through the streets ripping his robes because people thought he was a god. He suffered for standing against idolatry. shall we bow down to Buddha to show our honor? shall we incorporate the ways of other religions into the WAY The Truth and The Life. G_d wants peoples of every nation, but he does not want to incorporate their idolatrous ways into the perfect way. there are people that have COME OUT of their religions and pay with persecution, losing property, going to prison, and sometimes death. they put us to shame. shall we create Babylon by compromising and adding parts of other religions rather than turning fully to the true and living G_d. Israel was warned of this. spiritual Israel needs to be warned also.

in some countries, the pagenism and Christianity are so mixed that you can hardly recognize that they are Christians. folks be careful, what may seem good could become the catalyst for the abominations of the great whore of Babylon.

I will stay with the 3 in one whom came in the flesh as Jesus (Y_hshuah) I will not touch the unclean thing. I will respect and honor people. I will love them. I will reason with them as Paul did. G_d wants to break the walls of denomination, and take out ALL the lies that man has created. G_d wants to destroy idols in our lives and in those that will come to him. A perverted form of Christianity filled with bits and pieces of other religions, making many faiths satisfied and compromised could become the antichrist system. I have read documents from different parts of the New World order and they have no problem with christianity. what do you say to this? they quote from the Bible, the Koran and from Buddha and other books. they say that in reality we are all serving the same G_d .they speak of the Christ with in. they speak of love and peace. they are patiently waiting as things fall into place.

G_d gives powerful gifts to some. Beware, he tells some this. as they call to him L_rd L_rd have we not cast out demons in thy name and done miracles. (Depart from me you workers of Iniquity I know you not,) Is what some will hear him say. G_d gives gifts and does not take them back. we can use these gifts without listening to G_ds Spirit.

It is not love to join ourselves to a prostitute. It is love to help the prostitute leave her ways, by feeding her and loving her, but never to go to bed with her. if we compromise the truth to bring others to Jesus than we are getting in bed with Babylon not setting her free. i believe that some will come out of Babylon. Come out of her my people. Leave your idols ,your money, your pride your, ways and deny yourselves, take up your cross and follow me.

love in Jesus

Leah is right, and I respect what has been lovingly said about other forms of faith however: All the worlds religions' apart from Christianity are at their very best-- man reaching up to God and maybe in forms that are so humble they truly do approach holiness in laying themselves bare before God--but Christianity in its most base and simple form is God reaching down to man. This difference is so profound that we should forget everything else save the wonderful love of Christ Jesus, by embracing what He has done for us on the cross and through resurrections life that we can reach out in our mind without compromise or conjecture and be brought to truth quickening into our soul by way of the Holy Spirit, Who will teach us though scripture and anointed teachers that teach the scripture to reveal the Lord of the Book rather than worshipping the Book of the Lord, and we can have our true heavenly Father Who is in Heaven and we in this manner can have a relationship with Him in our spirit--as He our true father and we His true sons and daughters, hallowed be His name.. in Christ Jesus jk

Thanks Leah and James,

I agree, we must be careful. Whenever we compromise the gospel or try to make is so attractive that we conform to the world in doing so, we run the risk of quenching the spirit. The Gospel of Jesus is perfect, it is not something we mess with. The truth is given through spiritual means but the devil works through spiritual means also. If we were to handle the word of truth carelessly, without regard to what has been handed to us from the beginning, we are no more of the truth than those we are trying to convince.

We are however dealing with human beings who are not as perfect as the word of truth. We are imperfect, so are they. Jesus accepted us the way we are, so must we accept them the way they are. He only requires that we turn from our sin and follow Him but it is up to us and anyone else to change. Everyone has that choice, either to follow and obey or to turn away and deny. We are sinners saved by grace. Martin Luther did the church a great service but he was not perfect, in fact he had many faults and there are many things that Luther taught that over time, we find are untrue. We do not need to tell Lutherans that they must deny Luther to become a Christian or to be baptized by the Holy Spirit.

Saint Augustine was a good example of progressive revelation. Augustine had a brilliant mind but continually kept on learning and refining his own theology and when he was taken higher, he put away his own false thinking. To think that Augustine had all the answers is to say that if he had lived longer, he would not have refined himself even more. It takes a good teacher to recognize the errors of others and try to correct them, it take a great teacher to recognize his own errors and correct them.


Hi all,

Careful is a difficult word for me. Careful means stop and think, and think too much, and then not go and do. Careful starts inserting logic into my desire for the Lord, and also fear, that what I have to give is not worth giving, and that God can't possibly bless the efforts of a theological imbecile like me. The enemy seems to delight in that word careful.

Compromise is another word I don't like, it is what we do to soften the edges of our own sins by pointing fingers at the world and telling them it is their fault that Christ died, and shed His blood, and we had nothing to do with it. And if we take the message of Christ to the Muslim world, or the slum, or places where prostitutes, drug addicts or criminals hang out, and we do it without the love of Christ, what is that but compromise?

No compromise is holiness, and holiness is not complete without a present tense knowledge of our frailty and dependence upon God, and a present tense experience of God's grace and mercy and love, and a present tense knowledge of the power of God to deliver us. Holiness isn't Pharisaic separation, lifting its head above the scent of sin, it is 100% identification with the chiefest of sinners, and 100% trust in the Living Lord to deliver the goods contained in the promises of scripture, that speak of the forming of Christ in us, against all worldly odds. In terms of need we are no different from anyone saved or unsaved, but in Christ we have begun to recognize our need.

Holiness will change things. What sin can anyone commit that is not within us still in some form or manifestation. When did anyone's pointing finger ever deliver us from wrath, ever bring us peace, ever fold the loving arms of the Savior around us? When we are holy, then it will start, then things will change. Yes, we must not pretend that anyone will see the Lord without holiness, and Holiness must start in the household of faith. When we love unconditionally whoever is before us, scrapping our caution, we will see lives changed as hearts begin to take in the full wonder of the eternally merciful, deeply compassionate, self-sacrificial, all encompassing love of Jesus.


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