The Manifest Sons

July 25, 2002

Everyone wants to be among the Manifest Sons but it comes with a price and few are chosen.

Outside of this number are Christians who have compromised with this world system knowing we have been told to be a separate people. Many of us have heard the same things from God while others hear other voices by conforming to the world. Jesus is not lying to us or teaching us conflicting truth so we truly can come into one accord through hearing Him. We must however be in a position where God speaks to us clearly. For those that would rather conform to the god of this world and believe his lies, the true God sends them a strong delusion. We need to know who we are in Christ and make sure that we have not compromised with the political, economic and religious systems of this world that are doomed to fall or we will fall along with them. We must come out completely to mature into a perfect church.

The symptoms of a corrupt church may not be so obvious but easily recognized through the spirit of those that have been chosen out of the world. Holiness, revival, the deeper walk, the anointing, all are given to those that have been taken out. Maledictions are reserved for Christians who have compromised.

We have to come to the conclusion that the entire church system is flawed, the carnality, the authoritarian coverings, the prosperity doctrine, the unrighteous use of money, the separation of clergy and laity, the organized suppression of the prophetic voice of the Lord, things that quench the spirit and deny the power. But wait - not all churches are corrupt; the "Institutional Church" cannot be generalized. All encompassing statements of judgment that do not take into consideration the work being done by those that are coming into the place where the Lord would have them be is counter-productive. While too much of it is based upon the world system, we must be wise enough to recognize and affirm what is true while at the same time denounce and separate from what is false. Latitude of grace must be taken until the church is perfected; God is not through with any of us yet. Can it be done from within? Wherever two or more of us are gathered together, the Lord is there in our midst and He loves us and will guide us and give us grace to extend even beyond that which we are willing or able. The manifest sons are everywhere, inside and outside the IC. We cannot limit God nor can we limit where God can use servants who have been called or we are casting stumbling blocks. Love must be the driving force.

The church is in the valley of dry bones and we are fast approaching the times of which Ezekiel described when they will be coming together. This is the revival and gathering that the prophets have told us about. I am excited about it and I hope and pray that you are too and not listening to the false voices inside or outside the camp that would dissuade you from the word of the Lord.

The first and bottom line right now is that many of us are hungry for Jesus and the revival through the manifest sons will feed that hunger. What we are hearing is that Jesus is again being rejected by the religious folks and we must enter into the completed work by taking up the cross through a broken spirit and giving of ourselves to Him through love and forgiveness. Much is being spoken of the falseness of the church and that we should separate from it but don't throw the truth out along with it or the people that Jesus, the truth, died to save. We are here to perfect them, not condemn them.


Have you ever felt like the things in this life are grinding you down? Hmmm.
I sure have.
Jay wrote:

> Jesus calls Himself the bread of life and if we are truly part of His
> body, then we make up the ingredients of that bread. The Christian
> church has been compared to the grains of wheat that make up the flour.
> You have heard these analogies before, the enemy has sowed weeds among
> the wheat and we are allowed to grow together until the time of the
> harvest. The pain and tribulation that many of us are experiencing are a
> result of the growth and sifting process as we near the final harvest.

I have been considering the following verse in a new light:

Then He looked at them and said, "What then is this that is written: `The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone'? Whoever falls on that stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder. (Luke 20:17-18, NKJV).

The verses following show the religious leaders taking what He said personally, as they plotted to entrap Him and kill Him for it. The message of the Rock of Salvation is a message of the cross. It is foolishness to those who resist it, but this message is our only salvation. Those who build, "the builders" always reject the only One who can build His church. They would rather do it themselves. They would rather be the head of the corner and the foundation of the building that THEY are building.

I have always thought that having Jesus, "the (foundation) Stone which the builders rejected," fall on me was a bad thing. Our Sunday school teachers taught us that. But consider this.

Bread is not made of wheat that has not been harvested nor of wheat that is still standing in shocks. It is not made of wheat that still has the chaff on it, either, nor of wheat that has only been winnowed. The grains of wheat must be put under the stone wheel to be ground into a powder called flour before it can be made into fine bread fit for the Master's table. Consider the One that has gone on before us preparing and showing the way.

Behold, my servant shall prosper, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high. As many were astonished at him--his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the sons of men-- so shall he startle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which has not been told them they shall see, and that which they have not heard they shall understand. (Isaiah 52:13-15, RSV).

God uses many things to grind us down until we loose all resemblance and connection to our former state. He even uses false brethren (that is why the tares are left in the field with the wheat). It is only as we are completely broken down that He can mingle us together and make us into His bread and His body. He desires to make us into heavenly manna that can feed a hungry and dying world and become part of the Bread of Life. The question is, will we be satisfied with just stumbling onto Jesus and "getting saved" and being grains of wheat in His garner? Or will we call on Him to do a complete work and obliterate all that is in us and still of that old man which takes away from His glory as we seek to find or own lives on this earth?

He has made a special instrument for each of us to do the job of grinding us to powder. It is called our cross.

38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. (Matthew 10:38-39, NKJV).

So, dear friends, be encouraged if you have been under the grind, lately. God loves you the way you are, but too much to let you stay that way.

Your servant,


Who is that coming up from the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved? (Song of Solomon 8:5a, RSV).

"A Wilderness Voice"


Hi Michael,

Good thought. I do think that we need to broken as well, that's the only way that we can let the Lord fix us. It is the contrite spirit, the humbleness that identifies the meek of the earth. What you write reminded me of the brokenness illustrated in one of the four spices used in anointing oil in the book "Carriers of God's Anointing" by Jean-Claude Soupin.

"The calamus is a sweet cane plant of about ten feet high growing in Asia in marshy places. When it is crushed and broken, it exudes a sweet fragrance. The more it is broken, more of the fragrance is exuded. In its spiritual application, the calamus speaks of brokenness."

If we are truly to walk in the anointing, to be that sweet savour of life unto life, we need to be broken. Many have spoken of the pain involved in childbirth and that the man child is being birthed around the world as we speak. Being obedient to the message, taking up the cross and walking in the spirit may certainly be painful right now but look at the rewards at the end of the walk.



Your final question, "What are the solutions" perhaps invites another question. Can the Institutional Church system, as we know it, fulfill the plan of God? Could the system (government) that is found in most churches today precipitate many of the problems that we now see? These questions are cause for a search into deeper truth, and as such, cause us to understand the spiritual relevance of the (Church) structure that now serves most of Christianity.

During a recent time of prayer I felt I heard the Lord say that the spirit of anti-Christ is not coming; he is already here! He has set himself up in the house of God in the form of the carnal church, led by carnal men who have taken God's (the Holy Spirit's) place; men who are led by their minds instead of God's Spirit. Many Church leaders have unwittingly substituted themselves and their thinking in place of God and God's Spirit, and in the process become Gods unto themselves and their flocks. Only God can occupy God's place in the temple (in us) in order that God's true destiny spawn in our lives individually and corporately.

The exodus we see in the Church worldwide is not made up of rebellious backsliders and quitters; to the contrary, many of those leaving are seeking more of God, hungry for a true form of worship and assembly. As is the center of much discussion these days, the Institutional Church is housed in a system (government) that man erected, which finds its support and structure in a system that has evolved since the pure structure of the First Century Church. This revolutionized system (structure) we see today has little scriptural basis for its existence - a one-fold pastor led form of leadership (devoid of the five fold ministry), enforcement of the tithe, and the laity clergy divide that tragically separates the body into two parts; none of which are evidenced in New Testament scripture.

This system operates through the efforts of men. Men working through men produce human results - Men working through God produce Godly results, and while there has been grace upon the Institutional Church for many years, it appears that this grace is lifting as God continues to reveal a true Godly structure (for His Church).

God's ordained structure for anything ignites and invites God's power (Isaiah 9:7). I do not think that many, outside of leadership, could reasonably debate the fact that the Church is powerless, ineffective and besieged with problems. Unfortunately, the Church is more like Saul's army assembled on the battlefield trembling at the taunts of Goliath, rather than the conquering David that God desires. It seems an injustice that we have the greatest power in the universe residing within us, yet we as a people have been powerless and ineffective to conquer this earth for our Lord. Could it be that our structure, the very foundation upon which we act as a Body, is wrong?

Prophetic men and women men are beginning to recognize that it is not God's plan for His people to live in the earth in this powerless and ineffective state much longer: He is now taking direct steps to implant His power and effectiveness in His true (Davidic) people for His destined purposes to be fulfilled in the earth. As the David's come forth, Goliath will fall! But where are the David's? They sit idly in a system that does not recognize the powerful gifts that reside in them; gifts and offices of ministry that will change the world. The most under used and recognized talent in the world lies dormant in church pews all over this world.

But be encouraged, in this hour in which we live it appears that God is much less prone to bless the works of men, all the while using those who truly know Him to create His works through them. Presumption that we all used to so routinely get away with now seems to bring sobering retribution. Acts in the church (and business) outside of the leading of the Spirit of God can now be seen for what they are - acts of men. "Except the Lord build a house its builders build in vain." If we believe these assessments, the facts beg the question; can God's authority truly operate in and through the works of men? Can God's people within this system ever find their appointed destiny? Can those who cling to the system do so and remain in God's will? Can any real peace be found within the current church structure?

Isaiah 9:6,7,8 is a prophetic reflection of God's view of government. It further evidences that the government, order, and structure of God rest upon the back of Jesus. These scriptures clearly reveal that God ordains government (structure) according to His plan.

Isaiah 9:6-8 "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Almighty will accomplish this."

Another interpretation of Kingdom/government is God's perfect order - the hierarchy, position and placement of things according to God's will and plan. Godly structure (government) is evidenced by God's peace. In God, government precedes peace. Peace is a blessing that flows out of good government. If there is not peace in a situation, it is because there has been a breakdown in the government of that situation. Bad government produces confusion, dependency, and poverty whereas Godly government produces order, initiative, and productivity.

Could it be that God is about to radically change the Church as we know it to a structure more akin to the First Century Church which turned the world upside down for our Lord?

Clay Sikes


Hi Clay,

These are excellent questions for discussion. First of all you ask: "Can the Institutional Church system, as we know it, fulfill the plan of God?" Of course it can, as long as God is in control but I firmly believe that He is already in control and leading the people closest to Him to change the church as we know it. Carnal man may think that he is in control, he may try to take control and allow the church to be controlling but as long as God is truly in control, His plan will be fulfilled. But you asked the question "can" the IC fulfill the plan of God, the better question is "will." I really think that if the IC is to fulfill the plan, then it will not be the church as we know it but be a perfected church, that in effect will not happen in the general sense but only through those that are not "spit out." In that, we are saying the same thing.

The problem with using the term "IC" in derision is to generalize any church institution as being apostate and out of God's will. The fact is that God will be using many in all of the churches, simply being the individuals that are willing to be led by the spirit of love and humility. The body of Christ is not an institution, we are His members. Generalizing any of them as being part of a carnal church would be allowing prejudice to alienate our relationships towards those that we should be reaching out to. That is not love or humility and I disagree that it is spirit led.

Your other question was: "Could the system (government) that is found in most churches today precipitate many of the problems that we now see?" Of course it has, if not, we would all be speaking the same thing and of course there is much confusion and yes, the spirit of anti-christ reigns supreme in many of the churches, always have.

Although we are the temple of the Holy Spirit as individuals, we are part of a body. That body is sick and need of some healing. I agree that the church is about to be changed according to first century principles, that is the essence of what I believe is restoration but that includes any church or any institution that will be according to that ideal. None of us can set ourselves up as judge and jury as to who is in His will, that would be anti-christian also. We do not make these final judgments because we do not sit on the judgment seat, we all will appear before it. We cannot usurp the authority from the One that has supreme authority and we cannot assume authority when it has not been given to us to pronounce judgment on the IC. God alone judges who is in His church and who is not regardless of the system. He may hate our ways but God loves us and will not forsake us. He has told us however to repent.

We both agree Clay, as to what the problems are but we do not seem to agree in who is the problem. I see an unjust generalization in even using the term IC as if they are to blame. There are just too many carnal pastors and teachers outside of what we could describe as the IC and too many people led by God inside to condemn the entire system.

We may need to take this a little farther. Get back to me.



Jay - My questions are reflective of a contemporary point of view - what is happening in the church today?. They (the questions) were written to perhaps provoke thought about the changes you mention above. When I was called out of the Church some two years ago, I had no idea this was happening to others. In fact, I didn't know what was going on in my life except that so much of what was going on within the Church seemed to cross-current what I felt the Lord was saying to me. I continued to believe that our departure from church and the subsequent home church that the Lord led us to lead along with others was indeed rare. I now find that this is happening all over and has been for many years. Again, my questions (writing) is not only for my own desire to dig deeper, but also to offer potential solutions.

Where does disobedience come into to play? What about those pastors that God is speaking to regularly to change the system, but refuse to give up their throne of power? As for carnality; can a carnal man understand spiritual things?

I too believe that there will be some who will make an effort at changing from within. They will hear God and move accordingly, but I must tell you, the world's system has a strong hold on many mainstream denominational and charismatic churches. It is hard to dismantle the world's system from within an existing organization - I know this first hand Jay!

Jay, my comments are certainly not directed to the individuals within the church. My beef, if you can call it that, is with the system, absolutely not with the people. I have seen the vast difference in proper structure and improper structure in my 32 years of business. Improper structure, no matter how hard you may try will never be productive - there are too many internal factors to insure its demise. It is my inner most belief that how something is structured will either curse you or bless you, whether it is a relationship, business, and yes, even church. I know the churches I attended and ministered in as a Christian were not set up to recognize ministries, encourage the call of God in others, much less allow those God given gifts in others to operate.

If I pronounced judgment on the IC, that was not my intention and that is not my heart - but, I again reiterate that anyone that would argue that the system through which it operates is right would not be in his or her right mind. Jay, again, it is the system that I have problems with. There are many in the IC that I would lay my life down for including my own parents and Christian blood brothers, not to speak of many friends and relatives. If what you are saying in the above paragraph is that we do not have the right to speak against the system then we are miles apart in what we believe. You would not see the changes (in the church) that are now taking if no one had ever stepped up and challenged the system. Just yesterday, a former pastor told me that many of the things I had shared with him years ago are now coming to light in his life. I sit in judgment of no man Jay, but the system (the structure) is wrong! Some can accept that and some cannot and I have found that those most opposed to even talking about those changes are the ones who have the most to protect.

Can you not see a difference between coming against a system and coming against individuals? The system is little more than an organization, not the living organism that God desires. The people are hungry and want God more than ever, yet are bruised and battered by this system. I see them often, many attend our small fellowship and need healing from their horrible experience within that system. Jay, in conclusion, I ask that you reread my response to you because I think you read it in the wrong context. Again, my problem is not with any man or woman; to the contrary, I have a heart for the people who continue to be hurt. What is the solution? Isn't that what you originally asked? I see foundational, structural problems that need change and only spoke my heart as to what the solutions are...



Thanks Clay,

I am working on a response to the group. I agree with everything you have said.


Dear ones:

I just read all the posted discussions, and would like to add my feelings. Not all who are called "pastors" are called by God. I once told a "Pastor", that the sheep need visiting at times. (made him angry!). My mother is past 93, lives alone, prays a lot, but can't climb the steps to her Church, can't hear much, and is almost blind. But she has a brilliant mind. She prays "all over the world", as my late father used to say. Bless her heart. She could stand visitation once in a while from the pastor or his wife, and maybe some of the congregation. Mom and dad were charter members of this "Holiness" Denomination, and so was I. my mom is on SS and I am on Widow's Pension myself. Mom makes just over $500 per mo., and pays $80 ea. month to the local church. God has and still is richly blessing her. She is a light for me to follow, after Jesus. It thrills me every time I hear her pray. God bless each of you, and all the "prayer warriers".

Marilyn Williams


A part of the truth about the pain that we endure from others stems from false accusation with regards to our motives for pressing in to the presence of the Lord. But, if we're honest, a part of the pain is the realization that some of the accusation is true and that in truth we have not completely arrived yet either and so we struggle with the truth that while "We are now the Sons of God... " we also know the secret sins and battles that we still fight against.

Part of the solution then is to be transparent with one another "confess your sins one to another.... (Jas. 5:14-16), bear one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ (Gal. 6:2)."

To gain the victory in the very difficult areas of our lives we must admit that we still struggle. Any sin no matter how we may minimize it is still sin and part of the solution is to offer more than the Sunday morning mask we normally wear which answers "I'm fine" to the question "how are you?" ~ We all know that sometimes the true answer is "I'm hurt and I'm struggling ~ Will you pray with me?"

Once we can learn to be truly transparent with one another we can discover that the finished work of Jesus truly is sufficient for us. Sufficient to set us free of the pain and then we find ourselves equipped to move into 2Cor. 1:3-5 Blessed be the God of all comfort...who comforts us in our trouble that we may be able to comfort others with the comfort with which we have been comforted...."

Overcoming the pain of rejection, false accusation, and other offences puts us in a position of discerning between the offense (sin) and the offender (sinner) and enables us to approach them in unconditional love because we have been comforted by Father in order to be able to truly minister comfort in that area.

One example and I'll be done; Pick any sin that your particular church cannot forgive - in my church it's divorce, by doctrinal mandate in this denomination anyone who has been divorced is not allowed to serve in certain capacities. Usually the ones who make this rule have never had to deal with divorce and so they cannot know how devastating it is.. Because of the mandate the leadership who is supposed to minister to the divorced person can only minister from the "Letter of the Law" and those who could actually minister with knowledge and understanding are in some degree shut out from helping.

To turn this around would mean that those who have actually endured the pain of divorce ( or insert your thing here ) would be allowed to minister the comfort and experience they received from the Lord.

Finally, freedom from the pain of persecution or misunderstanding or failure to acknowledge us is to love others enough to be transparent enough to allow them to be a part of our healing and theirs by "bearing one another's burdens." And yes I know you can't confess everything to everyone.... but then again, what are we afraid of? What if by my becoming a fool for Christ or what if by setting aside my own reputation my confession sets others free to begin to deal with their pain and the truth of their "secret sins..."

Bless you all thanks for your patience... Eric F.

Thanks for your up-to-date synopsis of the church, and our need to be all that the Lord wants us to be [and the Army thought that that was "their" original slogan :-) ]

I know that for me -- I am just being soft and pliable in the Master's hands,as much as I know how to give myself to Him. I think that it is of the greatest importance,for me to draw closer to the Lord every day,and continually seek His revelation of "anything" that is offensive in my life.

I've read some of the previous posts and my heart goes out to those who have been in a controlling, dictatorship church. I understand it all too well,as my husband and I were in one too about 18 years ago.

My current pastor is a precious man of God. He is not controlling at all,and is encouraging our body of believers to find out what God is saying to each of us and then to be obedient to it. He just completed a 10 tape series on the "Dysfunctional Church." He addressed everything from leadership on down,and told us what many pastors will tell people to keep them in their churches. Pastor Roger told us that he wasn't threatened in the least if we visited other churches,or if we even left. Our doors are open with a blessing as folks leave, and they're open with a blessing if they come back.

When you know that the Holy Spirit has placed you in your place,there's no need to defend it, or leave if things are not going according to what you believe. Just STAND and love and forgive daily. Worship the Lord, pray and do the best you can to minister to other's needs, and you can't help but be fillled with joy and strength. 'Nuff said Blessings: Kit --
Oklahoma City

Hi Jay, and all,

I like that phrase "sieve of vanity" that you quoted from Isaiah 30:28. I think it shows the source of the separation that has occurred between us in the church, exposing the root of bitterness and hatred that still exists.

I had not fully acknowledged that the start of things "going wrong" for me in the church actually coincided with the start of revelation to my heart of God's Word, such that the more I wanted of God, the more I received from Him, and the more that happened the more I seemed to be disliked for it. I know I am not alone in that.

The story of what happened to Joseph is loved by all for the dramatic element, but it speaks also of the negative emotions at loose in the church today which amount to a hatred of God, so that wherever God is seen to be speaking, man will attempt to silence Him, one way or another. Why should God use young people, poor people, unlearned people, when there are plenty of "able" and better qualified people already in the church? Joseph's brothers no doubt felt they were all far more entitled to dream dreams and have the others submit to them than Joseph was. Back to the pride factor again.

Many of us have had that Joseph experience and were stunned that our true brethren were the ones who despised us so fervently, and plotted our murder. It takes a long time to get rid of the interior damage that comes from that realization. There are insecurities and fears. How, if we are considering reconciliation with the brethren who hated us, will we ever be able to speak as God leads with any confidence? How will we be able to work with such extremes of emotion tugging at our insides - the pain of being all but slaughtered by the ones we loved the most?

Joseph is an obvious example of how to conduct ourselves in order to see things through to the fulfillment of God's purposes, i.e. reconciliation with our brethren. God showed His hand upon Joseph in all of His dealings with him, in all of the places of his exile and his isolation God blessed him. But the blessing was conditional upon Josephs total commitment to God alone, and his absolute rejection of all of the various disguises that pride and vanity visited him in. It is the same for us.

I hear quite a few raised voices insistent that God has given up on the institutional and denominational church, and is only at work among the alternatives on the outside. But if the true church is without walls then the walls do not keep her in, or keep her out, they are simply irrelevant. Thus to write off the denominational and institutional church is to inevitably write off a large section of the church that God loves and is perfecting. To press on with divisive protestations of who the true church consists of is to greet the visitation of pride and vanity with a kiss on both cheeks.

Pursuit of vain and prideful aims in the church will inevitably result in a withdrawal of the blessing of God. We may try to convince ourselves that all is well with us, but God doesn't change, He knows what it will take to get us to be hungry for Him again. He loves a hungry people. He cannot continue to bless us if we intend to hold on to pride, self-righteousness and false authority, however good we can make it look.

Like with Joseph's family, hunger will drive God's people to seek His hand of provision, and we need to swallow all our pride here. What we have been through, God meant it for good. The church is hungry and thirsty for revelation, which she can only enjoy by submitting to God. But God will pour out His blessing as we submit to Him, and to Jesus in each other, and as we serve Him and each other with the love that He has given us. And that love is a long-term love which keeps holding on through the fire to holiness, in spite of the impurities and imperfections which are apparent in us all.

It takes humility to recognize that God will use whom He will choose to bring healing and reconciliation to the church. But what will it take to get us to recognize the place of poverty and hunger that we are in as a body, how hungry do we need to get? Joseph had a hunger for God that all of his brethren needed to experience, and God knew how best to achieve that aim. I am sure, revival starts for all of us at the place of that hunger.

Love from Mary

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