Heresy are those views against orthodox truth. The actual unity of the church at large was promoted by the pressure of persecution from without and of heresy within, the growth of principles and practices which Christians in general looked upon as utterly subversive of the religion of Christ. In these disputes the accepted doctrine or interpretation is called orthodoxy, and the challenging opinion is called heresy.

We must be careful not to throw the word heresy around carelessly. Heretics call others who do not agree with them, heretics. Disagreement is not grounds to acknowledge heresy and will only cause resentment and a further barrier to unity. Members of schismatic cults are within their own bodies, completely unified and come to one accord to their own heresies. Agreement and speaking as one is then not the answer in these circumstances. Heresy is evident within some of them mainly because of the false doctrines they teach concerning the nature of Christ. For them, Jesus is not divine but of a lesser form and as a group they believe it. We can in fact call them heretics because they have such evident doctrines of demons among them. Their salvation is in question because they perpetuate a satanic doctrine that affects the true faith in the true Jesus and they have separated into their own cults that believe everyone is in error but them. They do not have the spirit of God within them or they would not be so deluded.

Heresy, however, in the form of doctrinal error, is rampant in the church. The first heresies appear almost as soon as the first clergy. In fact the issue between those who wished to admit Gentiles who were outside the law and those who wished to confine the gospel to the Jews foreshadowed the kind of issue that was to confront Christianity in the first few centuries, when heresy followed upon heresy. Jesus called himself the Son of God and also the son of man, but he laid little stress on who He was or what He was, and much upon the teachings of the kingdom. By the 4th century, churchmen were so agitated and exasperated by tortuous and elusive arguments about the nature of God as to be largely negligent of the simpler teachings of charity, service, and brotherhood. These heresies tore Christianity to pieces for the sake of these theological refinements. From each persecution and heresy the Church emerged stronger and wiser than before.

Augustine: "For the rejection of heretics makes the tenets of the Church and sound doctrine to stand out more clearly."
Paul: "For there must also be heresies, that the approved may be made manifest among the weak.

Ignatius wrote that: "Heretics weave Jesus Christ into their web--to win our confidence, just like persons who administer a deadly drug mixed with honeyed wine, which the unsuspecting gladly take--and with baneful relish they swallow death! So, then, beware of such! And you will do so if you are not puffed up and cling inseparably to God Jesus Christ, to the bishop, and to the precepts of the Apostles. He that is inside the sanctuary is pure; he that is outside the sanctuary is not pure. In other words: he that does anything apart from bishop, presbytery, or deacon has no pure conscience.

The church started burning heretics at Orleans in 1022. The Church of England caused heretics to be burnt. Heresy is a sin to Aquinas which merits not only excommunication but death. The 4th Lateran council in 1215 gave those who exterminated heretics the same indulgences as those who go to Holy Land.

Heresy is not an error in judgment or a difference in experience but a demonic possession, splitting the moral self and producing the error. It means choice, chosen way of life or faith, sect, school, schisms, party. In the New Testament the word is usually used in a bad sense, implying a refractory spirit, as well as error in faith and practice. After the primitive age, the word came to signify simply error in doctrine. A chosen course of thought and action; hence one's chosen opinion tenet, and so a sect or a party; dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims; doctrinal departures from revealed truth, or erroneous views. Against such departures the apostles vigorously warned the church.

Heresy must not be tolerated, never allowed an equal voice in discussion and cast out of our presence as the evil influence that it is, the more it festers and flourishes from within, the more destructive it becomes. Loving each other means that we do not welcome demonic influences but rather protect ourselves from them and do what we can to recognize them at once and then to cast them from our midst.

In the early church we find fundamental forms of heresy which reappear with various modifications almost every subsequent period. The judaizing tendency, the heretical counterpart of Jewish Messianic Christianity, so insists on the unity of Christianity with Judaism as to sink the former to the level of the latter and make the gospel merely a perfected law. The Paganizing or Gnostic heresy exaggerates the Pauline view of the distinction of Christianity from Judaism, Christianity from its historical basis, resolves the real humanity of the Savior into a Docetistic illusion. Heresy disturbed the unity of doctrine and of fellowship in the early church, which was therefore forced to exclude those holding false doctrine from its communion. Once excluded, the heretics formed societies of their own. This was the case with the Novations, Gnostics, Donatists, etc., and many of the modern denominations of our day.

We have all been real careful not to bring out the heresy tag in our discussions but in our end-times discussion, we realize that we have been warned that many false prophets will arise and deceive many and heresy would certainly be part of an end-time discussion. There are heresies in the church, we do not need to deny that fact just because of our love and respect for others, on the contrary, we need to identify them to be able to defend ourselves from the wiles of the devil. We must also be careful only to expose the heresy and try to protect others in the spirit that have in fact been deceived with the attitude of "peace toward all men." That said, we must do what we can to separate ourselves from delusional influences.

We had previously discussed the oneness position that denies the trinity and found it to be hateful and schismatic. Not that this position is hateful in itself but when all that believe in it turn out to be hateful and consider themselves to be the only recipients of the Holy Ghost, it becomes so. To think that if we believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three personalities but indivisible as one God, we cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit or that anyone who is not baptized their way is doomed to hell, is hateful, divisive and the condemnation speaks for itself in its absurdity. In that we believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God does not in any way make this position tri-theism, that would be heresy also. Jesus is not the Father, He is the Son of God that is One with the Father, sent by the Father and His divinity is without question among us. The Holy Spirit is also divine, of the Godhead and proceeds from the Father and the Son. In that this is hard to understand should not bring us to question it or take on a position that turns out to be hateful, divisive and condemns those that do not agree. They have made their own hell, we want no part of it. We understand that Jehovah God made the universe, the world and mankind and that the Son was with Him in that "Oneness" from the beginning. To treat us as heretics because we believe in One God and Jesus is part of that Godhead also speaks for itself in that it judges the one doing the judging.

Separating ourselves from heretics is not the same as burning then at the stake or condemning them to hell, it is only protecting the church from demonic influences. If you would like to tell me why we should take time with the heresies and the heretics when the Bible is clear that we are not to welcome them, fine. Surely you can also read between the lines of what they are writing, it is the spirit of error almost in every case. We can deal with some of that but I believe that we should protect ourselves and the persons that God has entrusted to us and it is a waste of time beyond the initial alarm and exposure.

I feel for heretics, I have prayed for them, I think that it is tragic that they use these doctrines as the main focus of their theology. I feel sorry for them in that they feel that everyone here is denying the name of Jesus but it is a delusion. If we have to defend the heretics, then what are we doing here? Can we defend heresy? I think not. But then it must be asked if you think that holding the Father Son and Holy Spirit as One God is false. If so, you need the spiritual power to repent. I cannot allow heresy to come in and try to influence this group. I am not sweeping it under the rug, I am throwing it out completely and exposing it first.

We are also considered heretics. These are not just points of disagreement; they want to make their doctrines the only ones accepted in the church, it is the main thrust of their message. Heresy is like demon possession, it would take much fasting and prayer to drive them out of a person. Of course they will continue with the division but that is not what this group is about. Maybe there will be another group that tries to deal with heresy by having them have an equal voice but I would not want to be included in it.

Are we the remnant seed or not? Have we truly left Babylon behind us or do we want to bring it with us as we restore the foundations? The Bible teaches that these people come among us so that we may recognize them and expose their teaching. As heresy is exposed, we become stronger. Should our conclusions be a mixture of truth and error for the sake of love or should we stand upon the truth alone? The question is what is truth but we are discussing the trinity doctrine here, not if a person agrees with us or not over non essential issues. We are to be a separate people. Do you really think that we should allow them an equal voice here? Should we also allow Mormons and JW's and all other cults and anyone that thinks that they are the only true church and try to make us into their image? We already know what they believe, should we take time with all that nonsense, or should we deal with the issues as they are exposed and then move on with those that truly hear the Lord in truth and are willing to humble themselves enough to have a teachable spirit? Or do you think these people are speaking the truth? Do you also deny the church's view of the trinity?

I guess the bottom line is that I already recognize these things as heresy. I will not allow myself to be influenced by heresy or to give it the benefit of the doubt. If you have doubts about the trinity and of its truth, then that is what we must discuss. I have already made up my mind on it and each time it comes up, I stand on firmer ground.
[12, 03, 04, 07, 34, 39, 42, 43, 47, 63, 66, 68, 82, 95, 380, BD, the oneness doctrine and heresy was discussed on the latter rain discussion list concerning the end-times]

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