Is Bush the Antichrist?

July 4, 2004

Could George W. Bush be the Antichrist? Good question for many and sacrilege for others but we can take the idea of Bush being the Antichrist as a joke for now. After all, I also thought the same about Richard Nixon and I voted for him twice. The serious part is that the antichrist spirit has taken over the church in America and the Christian right is riding upon the back of the new world order. We should all know that the beast will be exposed in all its forms. What is referred to as that one person Antichrist is known in scripture as the man of sin, the son of perdition, the beast that will fall into the abyss along with the false prophet. Whatever points to the Antichrist in prophecy and current events should be taken quite seriously.

Let's have some fun with this. One side of this controversy is under a delusion that God has sent His people that believe a lie and the other has the seal of God. One is of the kingdom of darkness masquerading as light, the other reflects the true light. Wherever we are with this, we must make sure that we and those around us are out of the darkness. We love each other and it is the responsibility of the people of God to take care of each other. The battleground is familiar, pride, mammon and the affairs of this world.

For the sake of discussion, I submit that if Bush isn't the Antichrist, he sure is acting like he is and his record proves it. Bush could be the Antichrist and a lot of others think so too and there is a long list of reasons why he fits. Some will feel that it is wrong to think such a thing about such a dedicated man of God. There is great disagreement here. The question needs to be taken objectively so we must approach each other in love as an instrument in the liberation of our delusion. No harm, no foul.

Let's go for it, this is the question this time: Is George Walker BushJr the Antichrist? Is he a saint or a buffoon?

Say what you want in respect please. Contrast him with the man of sin in scripture one way or another. Give us questions or reasons why George Bush may be the Antichrist or why George Bush is not the Antichrist. Don't get mad. Have some fun with it, Jesus loves us either way and so do I.

Get back to me.


Cancelling the repayment of debt from impoverished nations is a righteous thing. But unless the end is nigh, it is a stopgap measure at best, sort of in the spirit of 'giving a man a fish, rather than teaching him to fish.' The means to solving third world hunger, debt, poverty can not be found in a blank check written by the west.......and financial solvency and material wealth hardly are indicators of spiritual vitality.


Dear Jay,

God showed me that the whole world is under a curse because we are trusting in man instead of in God.  (Jer. 17:5-8)  God cannot receive the glory when the church is mixing with the state (man).

God bless,

To the person who posts this letter--

Why do you sound so angry and unhappy?

I am a believer and I keep trying to read your letters but have to stop because they seem to come from such a critical spirit that I feel less than you if I don't see things your way. Maybe I agree 100% with you, but I can't get past the feeling I get when I read certain  parts. I don't think you are hearing the flavor of some of the things you are saying. If you are trying to win me with your argument and reasoning, that's one thing, but to do it in a way where it feels so condescending is another.

Jesus 'condescended Himself and His position in heaven for our sake, to win the prize that the Father promised Him, I don't read in the Gospels and feel Jesus' life and ministry coming across as one intended to belittle, but to build up, and win souls, offering all absolute Truth with absolute mercy--undeserved, yet free and inviting.

My intention is to offer a perspective from the 'outside' of your group, as one who is 'inside' the family of God, believing that you want growth and life to your ministry as does Jesus. I hope I spoke the truth in love here and wasn't belittling as that would sorta discredit the just of the very point I am trying to make. May you and your ministry grow and become more and more and more effective in Jesus' Name.

~Melisa L.

Jay, my new e-mail address is ***.  Great articles by the way, thank you for laying it all out and just saying as it is!!

James Bauers

Who knows?

Hi Jay,
The delusion is so thick and dark at this point in this society that I believe we should simply expect some help from the earth to swallow this overwhelming deception up. Who is walking in the Spirit? Perhaps the evil has been loosed from the rivers in Babylon. Perhaps the W.M.D.'s that were clearly present in Babylon recently that we have been hearing so much about are simply what will be a physical animation of the evil spirits that are to be loosed from the rivers in Babylon. Here we are discussing these political titles, it reminds me of what the apostle Paul addressed when he said "some of you say that I am of Paul and I am of Apollos" but what did Paul say in response "I thank God that I baptized none of you".

This society continually immerses itself in what flows from the satanic portals that are everywhere. Then we run to these monumental fortresses that we call the "church-building" and spend a brief few moments begging God to forgive us and clean us up. Then we start the week over again and continually immerse ourselves in what flows from the satanic portals that are everywhere constantly speaking to each other about what is flowing form these portals. On and on and on it goes. The deception is such a thick darkness. I believe our only hope might very well be that the earth around us swallows this deception even though everything as we know it right now might very well change in a brief period and become extremely unsettled. We place all of our faith in this satanic society to provide all of our needs physical, emotional and intellectual and then we spend a few moments each week singing hymns and begging God to give us the faith to see Him more. The deception is an extremely thick darkness in this society. May the wonderful God and Father of Jesus Christ have Mercy on us through Jesus Christ ?

Hi Joe,

That's about the way I see it too. I see it as happening very suddenly as if - too late, we missed Jesus again. And the earth will swallow them up. I like going to church and going through those same motions but i love doing what I do apart from that. The universal church will be involved in so much more. It is an exciting time but also a fearful time, to be a Christian.


You, Sir, are an idiot!  

When there are two evils from which to choose, why would a Christian vote for the vilest of the two?

If you are a Christian you just may have to share Heaven with George Bush. Even though he has made many mistakes he is so far superior to the alternative candidate, who, unless he repents and turns to the Lord, is assured the hottest abode in Hell.

Please don't take me off you mailing list.  I will be interested in whatever Demoncrat drivel you exude in the future.



Check-out Jubilee Research in London in terms of third world debt. Also, check-out "double counting" by financial concerns.

Thanks for both on Republicans and Democrats.  Thanks for giving a pathway for "spiritual warfare."

Charles Wimber

Hi Jay -

Brother, WHAT A BLAST!! I thoroughly enjoyed reading your discourses on the Republicans and the Democrats. It was like the thoughts that have been running through my mind concerning the political process were being read out loud so that confirmation could come. I was blown away by this passage...

"Hmmm... The Lord that luke-warm Christians call Lord is the same Lord that Ahab, Jezebel and the prophets of Baal called Lord and is a prophetic type of the times we live in."

Your words for sure, but the depth of that realization came not from you, my friend. That is the Spirit of the Lord speaking through you. I sense the truth in that which comes only from the Spirit. If a vote of support for either of the major political parties is a vote for deception and self-serving evil, do we refrain from voting? We know that the truth is not in the ballot it in abstaining from the political process?

Personally, my answer to that has always been affirmative. Then, I read this passage from by California Rep. Maxine Waters concerning the Jubilee Act...

"President George W. Bush often reminds us of the importance that religion plays in his life. I urge him today to provide the leadership necessary to persuade the IMF and the World Bank to do the right thing and forgive the debts of the poor. I urge President Bush to bring the Biblical principles of justice and charity into the boardrooms of these powerful institutions."

How about a candidate who brings biblical principles to the people of this nation so that we can vote for him?

Bill Caraway

Thanks for that Bill. You sound like a needed friend right now. I really drew a line in the sand on this one. I have been saying these things all along but not all at once like this. Time to stand up and be counted. I know you understand.

I do vote but some offices and propositions I just leave blank. Democracy is the best we have but my concern are the many countries denied true democracy because the majority is poor. All over the world now, totalitarian dictatorships are being propped up by the elite through oppressive military regimes funded by the U. S. Indonesia, Central America, African countries, now Haiti. More death squads being trained to keep them in line. Serious stuff. The Jubilee Movement is reminding the world of what is going on there but there will be opposition to it for sure. The church of the delusion is giving it it's power. What I have been seeing from the scriptures for today is that the South will take the matter in their own hands - and win. It is only a temporary victory for the beast will heal its wounds. This is what I have been trying to get out on the latter rain list. Won't make much sense until these things start happening.


Hello, greetings from Australia.

never having lived in America, i am not at all familiar with Republicans and Democrats, and their good and bad differences, so i will not (because i cannot) run comment on the American political scenes; but i will take your word on what God is doing, and what the (uninformed) unsaved are responding with.

Here in Aussie, there are political groups very similar to Republicans and Democrats, they have different names, but they operate in similar fashion, and the fruits of the labours are very similar, especially toward the poor and the disadvantaged. Here in Australia many have a place near or beside them called NIMBY, which stands for Not In My BackYard. many believe all the progress and technologies we have and use are fine, just not in their space, go somewhere else.

i have lived in this country for over 30 years, but i have never understood the attitudes of the people, nor the goals they set for their fellow countrymen and their children, and least of all the workings of the government. i think we are too far ahead of ourselves, we ask more questions than we answer, and we know things we cannot deal with, (cloning, surrogacy in child bearing, etc). i always think of the verse that runs similar to "When Jesus returns, will He find faith on the earth?"

as difficult as it is to do, i always ask God to help the leaders of the countries, give them wisdom, an ear for the people, let the sins and evil influence confound them, (and so, stay away from them)  let them find rest in their families and in Jesus, i know i could never be the leader of so many people, and their job is difficult at the best of times, but surely too far forward too fast is as bad as no progress at all.

anyhow, thank you for the information i have gained in the two email newsletters, republicans, and democrats, respectively. i do agree that babylon is internal, not an actual place, it matches up with what Jesus is teaching and has been teaching since His resurrection - Frugality and Sparing. (goes with too much of a good thing is bad for me, and everything EVERYTHING in moderation).

God Bless you Jay,

stay happy, stay soft to the Spirit,


hi Jay, I'm wondering are you pre-trib, I haven't see anything thing in you writing that tells. Gene

Hi Gene,

I believe that any catching away of the saints will be at the last trump, not the first. that makes me somewhere not pre-trib. Could be wrong though.


Dear Jay: For the most part I have agreed with you until now. My admonition to you is: go back and study some more. Green has it's roots in secular humanism also. If you look close enough at the political systems of the world today you will find a socialistic form of govt. and an imperialistic form of govt. i.e. the forerunners of Mystery Babylon and the satanistilc trinity (the beast). By the determinate council of God one must destroy the other Rev. 17:16-18. This is a done deal in the spiritual realm, the only thing God said He was not going to tell us is when these things will come to pass in the natural realm. Meanwhile we are instructed to occupy until He (Jesus) comes, and pray for those in leadership Rom. 13:1. Because "the heart of the king is in the hand of the Lord" and as the rivers of the waters He turneth it whether soever He will. I understand the ancestry of the Bush family. Also, I have studied Yale Univ. and "skull and bones" if you go deep enough you will find it linked to the Rhodes Scholarship program and another "secret society" going back to the Royal Academy. But, who can judge another man's heart perhaps he may have repented. My example is Dan. ch. 4 dealing with king Neb. and 2 Chron.36:22-23 dealing Cyrus the Persian King. In the love of Christ,  Robert E. Blevins

Right on brother!

I'm 25 yr veteran of the search for truth. It has been a long rocky road, but it certainly had me nodding my head when I read your piece.

Onward! To God all of the glory!

Andrew Herman

Conservative Republicans vote their pocketbooks? It seems that you do not understand what the Conservative and Liberal labels mean in regard to American politics. I would be legally classified as on the verge of poverty (but I am rich through God who provides all my needs) but I vote for freedom, rather than dependence upon government. Most of the givers in our country are those with money, and most of the takers are those who have been taught (and believe) that the government owes them. I remember watching the lady in front of me pay for huge amount of groceries with food stamps and followed her out to watch her load it into her very expensive, new, SUV. Who is greedy here? Where there are those truly in need, it is the responsibility of Christians and the Church to help, not the responsibility of the government to steal from the hard working man to give to the lazy, and the drug addicts. Conservatism in American politics today refers to the desire to conserve - to SAVE - our constitutional form of government. To keep American ONE NATION UNDER GOD. The Liberal Democratic party of today wants to change that constitution and install a Marxist form of Socialism. Do you not know that raising taxes for more social programs does not help the poor? If it did, we by now would have a country with no needy at all, but Jesus reminded his disciples that we will always the poor with us. The socialist programs of the Liberals are not truly designed at all to help the needy, but rather to give the appearance of helping the needy while they in fact enslave them to dependence on the government and take away the initiative to work. This is what happens in all communist countries. “Liberal’ is a tag the new Democratic party put on themselves in order to hide behind their true Marxist label. Is this radical thinking? Visit the site of the American Communist party and read. See what they say about George Bush. It matches the Democratic party line completely. Read their constitution and see that the ideals of the Democratic party are the same as the Communist party. If you had visited their site in the 1990´s you would have seen that they named as their “woman of the year’, Hilary Clinton. Study the Marxist methods in taking over a country and you will see that they take control of the media; take control of a political party; take control of the court system; take control of education; and take away all firearms from the citizens so that the citizens cannot protect themselves from the government police.

What we have in this country is a fight for survival that equals or exceeds that of fighting terrorism. What we have is a war between Satan and the Christians and Jews. It is the LIBERAL judges, appointed by liberal Democrats, who want to take God out of the American life. It is the liberal judges who support abortion and homosexuality. Read the communist constitution and you will find it all right there.

Do all Republicans have good intentions? Absolutely not. Are all evangelists Christians? Absolutely not. Most, in fact, preach for their pocketbook. So did the religious leaders of old, and Jesus was infuriated with them, for they sought to use the Word of God to make themselves rich. Which of today´s “famous’ evangelists would sell all that he had and give to the poor? But money does not make one evil - the love of money, putting it ahead of everything, is the root of evil. Though I am poor, I know very wealth people who quietly give away millions to help those truly in need. I know retired wealthy people who work for free with organizations that help the needy. In both cases, they shun publicity for what they do. One goes so far as to have a third party ( a maid) deliver funds in a plain envelope so that the receiver will have no knowledge from whom the gift came. I hope they know, it came from God. Take away the taxes that support worthless social programs and such God loving will have even more with which to help others. The Marxist idea is to eliminate big business - the backbone of any strong economy. They want the government to control all. Read this, taken from literature on their web page:

“Eventually replacing big business with labor and its allies as the dominant power so as to insure that the rights, economic security and expanding needs of the people become the overriding concern of society.’

Liberals want to be liberal with our money so they can use it to destroy America, destroy big business, and make a Marxist government the dominant power that decides who gets what, who lives where, and that nobody worships God.I am a Christian, a “conservative’, and an American, thanks be to God. Just Plain Bill

Hi Jay and folks,

I hope everything is okay. I haven't posted anything for a while, but recently I've been getting your mailing about Democrats and how horrendous they are. To be truthful I know very little about American politics and I tend to believe that politics and Christianity are diametrically opposed.

It is likely that it was the alliance of the Catholic Church with the Roman Empire which compromised it in the first place. At the time it would have seemed ungodly not to link with Constantine. But the whole point about God's methods are that we work from a position of helplessness.

There is no godliness in the democratic system, communism, dictatorships and all. It is ALL the world. If any of the leaders were of God, then they would preach God's ways in every respect and never moderate his message in any way to gain popularity. We would have national days of repentance and prayer, but there is an additional problem. God does not recognize many of the 'human rights' yet he does not enforce his will either.

I would suggest the Biblical position is that the leaders are 'God's ministers' insofar as they maintain social order, but are acting outside of their divine rights when they oppress the poor and weak and prevent freedom of conscience. I understand that you feel that that is happening and perhaps you are right. Even so, no party has the seal of God since they are not 'led by the spirit' but by the will of men.

I can see some of what you mention in the world, for it is clear that we are all become cogs in an immense global economic system. Over here in Europe we have a recognition of the weaknesses of capitalism, but the opposite is that there by controlling taxes and implementing 'social rights' everyone ends up becoming dependent on the government for their welfare in one or another ways. This leads to huge swathes of rules and regs with the government becoming hugely more controlling. This is godless too and it leads to the government using taxed money to alter society in the way it sees best taking away individual responsibility. Huge amounts of money are spend directing money to alter society and influence the media in ways contrary to God's. Man's ideas become the god everyone has to obey and people become reluctant to say even that things such as homosexuality is sinful. When people start having to think carefully before they speak it is clear that freedom is departing.

I would suggest that both will form part of the image of man. Both are humanistic. Democracy works when the majority of the population are selfless. Once that is removed it panders to godlessness in one extreme or another. Until the heart of a country is right we can achieve nothing through rules.

I would suggest also that what we have in our times in the mind of man reaching its highest elevation against God. That is why man's system of 'buying and selling' is reaching a peak. At the same time it is reaching its peak of licentiousness. As Christians this puts us in the position where we will be rendered helpless to survive in our strength. That is why the TWO witnesses stand in sackcloth before the 'god of the earth' That is why 'no man can buy or sell without the mark of the beast'

Great Babylon is ALL the world's systems and the woman is all the world's religions. As such it only stands for a short while. But what will make the world unite?? Clearly the Antichrist, but they will only accept him by being made helpless first. Men unite around two things - a strong leader who seems to have the answers - and opposition to Christ (good).

Men unite in belief around ways of thinking which do not work, but satisfy his natural selfishness. So instead of looking to God for solutions, they seek to invent and create natural solutions. We all know that. When problems arise they seek to implement laws and create committees and create more laws. There can be no honesty about the real problem that we need God and so everyone has hidden agendas and secret purposes. The very laws instead of creating harmony create greater complexity, further unforeseen problems and combined with enforced social values a constant looking over the shoulder to make sure we can justify everything we do in the light of social values, possible compensation issues and instituted legalism. Ultimately it leads to men feeling helpless and wearied as life gets far too impossible and strained. And unable to resist a system they are dependant upon.

That the Bible calls perplexity, where there is 'no way out' That's our world, a society so focused on man's achievement it creates a society troubling to everyone.

I would suggest that our job is to keep well away from the world and politics, but shout about injustice and preach repentance. The reality is that the world's structures are not going to conform to Jesus, but will seek to conform us to the image man has nearly set up in different ways around the world. They try to impose their systems by organsiaations and rules and our job is to work by changing hearts.

Tim Woodall

         I understand how sickened you must be by the lack of Christian alternative to the republicans in America. In Britain and looking at the difference between right and left, what can I tell you, we are sickened too. In Wales more so. We do not remember affluence much like they do in England, but rather feel the brunt of unChristian political decision as it affects our communities here which are generally more acquainted with poverty and need.
         A kind of hopelessness sets in. Time past, the Welsh had good reason to be proud of its solidarity with the Labour party, and with the poor it sought to serve, but we have seen in the last 20 years particularly, an erosion of principals amounting to wickedness, and a departure from the fine aims of philanthropy that were so much a part of left wing politics here.
        I can't remember when the term "looney left" was coined, but I do remember wondering how foolish people can be to believe any more what politicians were saying, when they consistenty blackened the name of people who quite plainly were prone only to honesty, and the pursuit and support of human rights here and worldwide.
          Now because of those lies, we have a Labour party in power which is in many ways indistinguishable from Mrs. Thatcher's conservative government that we endured all those years when you had Reagan. We had begun to trust the Labour party to provide a serious solution to the damage Thatcher inflicted upon us, but have discovered that it continues unhindered under new management..we shake our heads and wonder what can now be done to help us.
          It leads one to conclude that things aint what you see. There are other forces here underlying the political process. There is a Spiritual picture that political intellectuals are too proud to consider, but tough cheese, God will have His way.
          A sister I saw the other day was animated, excited. She had been reading some Biblical prophecy for the end times and applied it to political events. She wanted to enlist me as a "prayer warrior" to hold back the hand of God.
          Really? Are we finally seeing that God is doing what He promised He would do and think now is a good time to ask Him to change His mind? I think not. Lord, have mercy upon us. No one can deliver us but You.
                         Love, Mary

I for one resent the intrusion of government into the lives of ordinary citizens here, under whatever religious or moral pretense. Presidents are not elected to favor religion in any form, and I think that the downfall of society will be because of conservative religious elements commisserating with government to enforce their dogma. This is in fact foretold in Revelation. Jesus declared that His kingdom is not of this world, yet many professing Christians seem to want that. The only support I want for religion is the upholding of our constitution, that congress shall make no law favoring religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

I hear constantly that if I dont vote Republican, I am against God, home, family, etc. and that is pure BS in my opinion. Since when is it the government's job to dictate morals or religion to the people at large? Elected officials have the job of protecting freedoms, and that freedom also includes the right to not believe in God or attend church if one so chooses. The Papacy has had long experience with influencing government, and forcing its decrees on same. Now, Protestants are clamoring for the same thing, unwittingly setting the stage for great persecution of those who refuse to go along with the proclamations of Babylon. Our supreme court has wisely (so far) upheld our constitution...which is interpreted by mainstream right wing Christians as anti-God or anti-home and family. Protecting the minority from the religion of the majority is what its all about! The US is not nor never was a "Christian" nation...its early settlers came here to escape the church/state of Europe, and only around 8% of those had ANY religious affilliation or interest whatsoever, they were so disgusted with religion ruling government! We may decry Islamic governments because they allow only THAT religion, but what Christians dont see is that their clamoring for America to 'get back to being a Christian nation' will eventually have the same effect, repression and persecution! Protestants have not come CLEAN out of Babylon, and hang onto many of the same forms and attitudes they professed to break away FROM.

Enough ranting from me now. God bless you all, Will

Hi Will,
          It is hard for me in Britain to get the full meaning of what you are saying here but I think we probably agree that the mixture of religion and Right Wing politics anywhere in the world has been and is potentially evil.
           The problem is not simply of belief religious and political, but of how that belief converts into action in terms of policy home and abroad. I do not want belligerant right wing religious fanatics developing policies of overt and covert slaughter and getting rich at the expense of the poor that Jesus is among. We could sit and talk about how that is going on for the rest of our lives, but it wouldn't change anything.
         We probably agree too that nobody benefits from religion, but from a real relationship with Jesus. You can't get that by any form of legislation, but we are noticing here that laws are being passed that infringe on our freedom to express our faith, that in subtle ways we are expected to go underground in order to maintain a facade of political correctness. I don't like that either. I cant do the work of an evangelist without some freedom to move and to speak.
         If our faith does not convert from expressing belief into some form of positive action in preference to the poor and the vulnerable, it is a lie and a deception. We deceive ourselves and our religion is vain if in the broadest sense we do not "visit" as it were the widow and the fatherless. Religious and political discussion might turn us on intellectually, but so what. Our lives in Christ are not about us, but about others.
         Apart from all that I am wondering which is the more evil, the R.wing religious fanatic who is honest about his belief regardless of how it makes him look: or the  L.wing intellectual in power who has successfully convinced the poor that he is concerned enough about his welfare to do something to help, while instituting policy that demonstrates the opposite. In some senses that is what has happened here.
         My favourite example at the moment is the hot topic of the deterioration of society values, and the worrying level of antisocial behaviour in our communities. New laws have been passed to deal with the kids on the street who do bad things. Well and good, we need that. But when a few people in Westminster decided that  beggars up there were spoiling the look of the streets, they passed a law which made begging antisocial behaviour and a punishable offense. Now the police have increased powers to arrest and harass the poor and the homeless. They beg because they have no way to eat without someone giving them money. It doesn't take a lot of working out that NIMBYism like this is R.wing policy wrapped in a red flag. Sigh.
                     Love, Mary           

Hi Mary,

Same here in the states. There are a few Democrats in Government that actually are led by the spirit, I see them mostly African American. There is something about an oppressed people that can easily identify with true Christian values.


Hi John,

Here's what I hear the Lord saying. This is a prophetic forum and the Lord wants to speak through us and that includes you. The holiness about you will serve to remind us what we need to hear and if it is all right, I would like you commissioned here. I never commission anyone, Mary is like part of that, many others feel free here to be ourselves and there are many other voices waiting for the manifest sons to appear. God in the name of Jesus did that, through the Holy Spirit speaking through us with love and unity. The Lord is upon you, you don't need anything from me but it would be an honor to have the Lord speak through you here anytime you feel He needs to.


(foreward, another group)

But David, once having the personal relationship with Christ, we are united with all other true believers who also have that personal relationship, wherever they are.
    Like the Bible says, as quoted, if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. You cannot have the Spirit of Christ in you, and not have a personal relationship with Him. How much closer could you get?
    Naturally then, what follows is a recognition of spiritual kinship with all those who have also the Spirit of Christ. This IS the church.
     I believe it is this church that is spoken of in 1 Tim 3:15, and the temple made without hands, and of living stones, who are all who have that personal relationship with Jesus Christ, Who is Truth.
     When I first got saved 18 years back (smile) I astonished a Bishop speaking in the cathedral near where I lived, because I kissed him on the cheek and hugged him, thanking him for the message he gave. As far as I was concerned he was my brother in Christ, and I was to love him fervently and with a pure heart. He was as you can imagine, not as convinced as me!
      Since that day the Lord has had me rub shoulders with the great and the small, the meek and the mighty, from all walks of life. I can honestly say I am not impressed by what a man says he is, but by who he is in Christ. And if he is in Christ, he is my brother, and he deserves the best of what God has to offer. If I can help him obtain that, I can sleep soundly at night.
     I haven't attacked you at all, or denied the validity of creeds, councils, the Fathers as you seem to be suggesting. Far from it.
      What I am saying is that apostolic truth is the same now because Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever; That the power of the Holy Spirit is the power behind the expansion of the Kingdom of God; That God has been "doing church" inside and outside buildings and denominations and branches of faith since the apostles were first sent out.
     I believe it is high time to awake out of sleep, NOW is our salvation, nearer than when we believed. We need to come out from our theological hiding places and get real. Labels are nothing. We are nothing unless born again of the Spirit of God and living our lives as He wants us to do.
    Do we think that when we see Him, with our doctrinal sweatshirts, and our carrier-bags full of everything we know, that He will be impressed with our years of learning if we have never been able to come to an understanding of who He truly is; if we have never been able to give Him a return on the investment of the Holy Spirit that He placed within us?
      I am saying that all of us needs an encounter with the living Lord, truly, when that happens the work really starts, there is no time to stay still.
      David I am trying to hear what your heart is saying, I feel you are offended by what I say because it strikes at the base of your religious life. I want to encourage you to let that go for now and get into the Lord's presence. Let Him love you like He wants to. Let Him show you what He needs you to know. Let Him wash you. And then let Him equip you through experience to minister like you have never ministered in your life. Time is running out. Let Him give you the best.
                   Love ya brother

Hi everybody,

All this talk about the people that attacked Mary on that forum has got me thinking. Correct me if I am wrong but they were really attacking her because of her e-mail address. Well we like controversial subjects. Don't we? We have defended the latter rain before a while back but maybe we can get a little more meat on it this time. The problem that these heresy hunters have is that they have pointed their fingers at any false teaching that anyone in the past who even remotely taught about the latter rain and missed the point. The God of the same Bible I have that you have teaches of the latter rain and may have something to say about that and teach us right.

What do you think maybe this would make a good topic on the latter rain list.


Or if a latter rain discussion isn't tempting enough, maybe we can ask
the question: "Is Bush the Antichrist?"


Hello Jay.  I would like to make an observation.  Just today [6-8-04] we have this in the news:   A new bill in the U.S. House of Representatives would allow church and synagogue leaders to endorse political candidates. Interesting stuff, to say the least.  

When people get away from the simple Gospel, there will be trouble. There will be a false prophet; but it also seems that there will be representatives of an Imperial priesthood as propagandists of the Caesar-cult.


PS it is a shame that I had to go to a Jerusalem newspaper to find this little tid-bit of news.  It is a great injustice to a nation or people that they can't see the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Frightening stuff Tim,

What this does is give Babylon free reign to promote the image of the beast without losing their tax exempt status.

That might leave room for that right wing Catholic Bishop I heard about to to deny communion to John Kerry.

Didn't I read somewhere something about separation of church and state and that Congress shall pass no laws respecting religion? Does that apply here or not?


Hi Jay,
        No it wasn't exactly that they got uptight at my latter-rain email, they got uptight because I was talking about the Holy Spirit, about the church and who she is, about experience, and about the last days. It all cut into their religious belief and rather than answer the things I put forward, a moderator went on a witch hunt behind the scenes and came up with some mud to sling at me about William Branham and the latter rain movement.
      I know you respect me and wouldn't mean to imply that the only reason they got rattled was because of my email address. I do feel I worked hard with some of the topics they raised but evidently they were unable or unwilling to come into a real discussion and resolution of some of the issues that they were talking about.
      I am pasting one letter below which evidently inflamed them. I will follow it with a few forwards of mine. I got rid of the vile attacks though because I refuse to give them space on my computer.
      It is important to make it clear what we are talking about with the Latter Rain. Maybe some of the forwards might provoke an interest.
            Love, Mary

I believe you on right on it Mary! I did not really fully understand myself at the time. Only some who has receieved God's gift of the Holy Ghost can begin to understand some of the testimonies or descriptions we have received by the power of the Holy Ghost. At times even though I have received that precious gift and I do try to follow the direction of the Holy Ghost, I have slipped and gone off on a tangent from God's perfect pathway. He has, praise His name, granted me mercy and brought me back onto His Way.
I believe there are many "Christians" with a measure of sincerity who have not received this gift of God, the Holy Ghost, the nature of our beast, [the beast that will live in us until we have finished our course], is to defend what they have by the means at hand.
If they are truly sincere, God will bring them to a better understanding of His Truth. If, on the other hand, they are 'wolves in sheeps clothing', with no real love for God at all, then we had best take care that we walk closely under His covering lest we be wounded by them and even fall away.  God help us all to lean more heavily on Him!


Hi Jay,
A humanly observation: if Bush is the Anti-Christ, God may be using that what is opposing God and his Christ to do some righteous deeds [eg opposing the gay marriages, abortion, etc.]. What will we do with the words that so many prophets [and also those that think they are prophets] spoke over the life of Bush? Isn't he just a man trying to fulfill his calling while being criticised by so many? Is he the "burning bush" that Bob Jones advocated?
Be blessed man! Carry on the good work and stay humble. Praying for you.

 Hi Herman,

Just who is opposing God and his Christ and what the calling of George Bush is, is exactly the question. I don't think that siding with righteous causes here at home offsets the things Bush is doing around the world. Good point you bring up, I am working on something right now on it. As to prophets, the Antichrist will be a figure like Ahab in the time of Elijah and there were many prophets of Ahab. Many today, just like then, have not bent the knee to Baal. There is not just one Elijah today, but many, convincing the world . This is the day of Malachi 4:2  "But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall."


Hi Jay,
  I think that line-crossing you speak of is going on with me. It is a misery to have to make compromises and I am in the situation where it is hard not to. But it presses on your mind all the time what is wrong, that the world seems full either of people who do not know the Lord and are content, or people who claim to know Him but deny the power of the Holy Ghost, and are equally content.
        God forbid I should start getting content! If you start seeing some signs of that, you have my permission to let off the odd bomb or two close by.
        Keeping quiet is the hardest thing for me, haha, guess you noticed. I have begun at home to employ strategies to divert my attention and make it easier and not all of them are good ones.
         At home some evenings we have a glass of wine together and it gets us talking about issues we might share a view on. That has a certain value in that given what we have been through we could easily have found ourselves at each others' throats. We aren't. We are friends.
          But it means I do not go to prayer in those evenings and spiritual conversation is put away, and always the temptation to overdo that which I was happy enough to allow crouches there waiting to get me. Sometimes then I get miserable enough and it happens. There is no forward progress for me without a continuous confidence in the promises of God, but I want to kick all that compromise away from me and press on.
  In my church I hope I am developing patience and self-control not speaking up on everything, but sometimes I fear it would be easy to slip from there into indifference or a kind of passiveness that thrives in a lukewarm environment, gad, you feel your eyes drooping and have to keep with it.
    We have made a little headway in the Spirit in church, and we have seen a behavioural if not Spiritual change of heart at home, but the advances in the Lord do not seem great or quick enough given the times we live in.
     I am ready for Him to open the eyes of my understanding and to change me big time. It is not unscary. But not unbeautiful. I remember that vision of the children sitting on a wooden bench, me with a blindfold on: It is simply that some things I do not see because He has not shown me. But blindfolds are not blindness, and there is a time for them to come off.
      One thing I know, that wooden bench that our bottoms were firmly planted on represents ongoing, uninterrupted repentance. We must be constantly in touch with the cross throughout. Can't preach repentance without living it. The vision wasn't a "walking in the Spirit" moment but a "sitting and receiving" moment. That first, hopefully the other follows.
        We are gathered here in Jesus, and it is He who will keep us safe and take us where He wants us to go next, praise His wonderful name! Halleluyah Lord Jesus! I pray Lord that the love, the unity, the work and the ministry at Latter-rain and Lightship be always pleasing to You. Protect what we have acheived so far, and free us to walk together humbly in the way ahead as yet beyond our vision, in Jesus Name, amen!
            OK I am ready when You are Lord. Bring it on.
                      Love, Mary

What you say Mary, makes me think of where my allegiance is. Of course it is in Jesus but that is said in every Christian quarter. The gospel message has no meaning to it without concrete action sparked by the love of God. It made me realize that there are people with faith and no action and there are people with action and no faith. God please put me where the action is every time. My allegiance is with God but it must include action with the people or we are wasting our talents. If there are family values here, it must include the family of man as well as the family of God. How else shall we reach them. The scriptures say that the Antichrist must be revealed first so these questions are related. Once the truth is know about the man of sin, the latter rain is allowed to fall.



  Just updated this page from our discussions.

  Liberation is the setting free of man from self, sin, death, and oppression. The preaching of the gospel of the kingdom is a spiritual truth that liberates man and the faith in this truth is the instrument of liberation. In these last days, this belief is the liberating condition that sets man free from the mark of the beast by breaking the bonds of delusion.

  The term "liberation" can be applied on three levels:

     1. Political liberation of oppressed nations and social classes. 2. Liberation of mankind throughout the course of history. 3. Liberation from sin, the cause of all evil, preparing for a way of life of all mankind in communion with God.

  Liberation viewed as a process of liberty, social justice and love sees the liberation movements of the third world as a direct result of avarice, exploitation, oppression and arrogant domination of the north. If there is violence in the area, it is the straining of liberation in the struggle of the poor to be free of the whole process of economic oppression. General David Sharp, former US Marine Commandant made the statement in 1966 that,

      I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar-soaked fingers out of the business of these [Third World] nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own... And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the "haves" refuse to share with the "have-nots" by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don't want and above all don't want crammed down their throats by Americans.


      Liberation embraces the whole process of opposition to all forms of colonial oppression.


      Another discovery: We are not liberated until we liberate others. So long as we need to control other people, however benign our motives, we are captive to that need. Giving them freedom, we free ourselves. And they are free to grow in their own way. The whole technique of liberation requires that the individual shall find out the truth for himself. Simply to tell it is not convincing. Instead he should be asked to experiment. And the word of the desert prophet, Amos, will resound in men's hearts as a word of God, a word of judgment and a word of liberation - a word which is strong and encouraging. It sounds like the wind of the desert, the roaring of the lion, and still has power to awaken us, after 2800 years.

  Each generation must experience the liberation in its own life experience. The flight of the Israelites is the bitter experience of slavery, of being held in contempt, a deep alienation and the sense of rejection, of feeling that there is no escape from the vicious circle of violence and fear and hate, of not knowing whether life is worth living at all. Without really experiencing this, it is not possible to understand what the liberation of Exodus meant. The freedom from the slavery of Egypt in times of old should remind us of freedom of mankind as a process as understand where that process is for our last generation. Egypt becomes a paradigm for liberation. What needs to be brought out in Christan writing is the redemptive source of history from a God-centric point of view: the liberation of man from the oppressive powers from the point of view of liberation through spiritual means. If it was left up to Moses to lead the children of Israel out of Egypt, it never would have happened, it was God through Moses that led them out.

  Christianity is not just another religion, it is a way of life that has transformed body, soul, mind and spirit into a god-centric point of view through spiritual means. This transformation is something that cannot be denied from those that have undergone it, nor can we merely seek to find answers based upon the thoughts of our own understanding. That transformation will be Jesus actually living His life through us and putting his spiritual laws and desires into our hearts for the benefit of others, not just ourselves. Do you have faith? Now find the Spirit. Then bring the oppressed and the powerless into the liberty equation of your life without compromise. Don't wait. Many of you have yet to discover that liberation is key to the redemptive process. More around this world will practice this until the Lord puts His enemies at His feet. We need that new consciousness in re-discovering those truths which have been given to us already from the beginning. Aligning with a purpose is a great and noble task. We are doing that in re-building the waste places, restoring the temple of God but as David teaches us, except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.


Good stuff Jay, need to read it a few times over.
        Is a paradigm like a mindset? Cos I was thinking that you could walk in obedience to God without your mind being liberated from slavery. Walking as though free by faith if not free totally in thought.
        Mmmm. Faith overriding circumstances until the circumstances yield. Just chewing!
              Love, Mary

Hi Mary,

Yes, a paradigm it is like a universal mindset. When they talk of a paradigm shift on any particular subject, it is like a revolution of ideas, we were thinking one way, now we are thinking another.

The crossing of the red sea represents deliverance from oppression. Walking in obedience can be according to the slavery paradigm that you are speaking of through faith. Circumstance alone isn't enough, it takes circumstances accompanied by revelation knowledge that will break the bonds of delusion. People under oppressive regimes can be walking in obedience but not as oppressors, only the oppressed. It is not as easy in rich countries, we may in fact know the Lord and ignorantly support the oppressors, especially when an untrustworthy media supported by them propagate the lies. If we have compromised, like we are discussing, it is not according to the will of God, it is part of the lie. If under the delusion, I believe that we could still do the will of God because the delusion comes from God even though we still love Him. It is the lie that people believe and many who believe the lie still believe Jesus. The seal of God is not for the Christians at large that have come to Him by faith, it is for those that have served Jesus, love those around us and have not worshipped the image of the beast. I do not feel that the seal of God is to liberate a person as much as it is for the ones already liberated.


I don't believe President Bush is the Anti-Christ. Check scripture and he does not fit. To follow the arrow of Scripture is to arrive at Jesus.

Don Myers

Hi Don,

Nice to hear from you. This is what we need for sure. Can you be more specific on the scripture?


Hi Jay, Don and all,
      I had thought about there being a corporate man of sin and son of perdition, a false body, like the bride is the true corporate body of Christ the Son of God. I was thinking that that evil spirit working there would have to be the mystery of iniquity working by the antichrist spirit in the church, which exalts itself and opposes everything that is of God.
      I am saying a corporate "son" of perdition because there is no submission or humility there, only in that maleness a pride and rivalry to the True Son, the Bridegroom, Jesus Christ. Like Paul talks of the mystery which is the relationship of Christ to His church, a husband to a wife, the mystery of iniquity is the opposing spirit, antichrist spirit, a "son" that would be God, proudly attempting to take the place of Jesus.
     A bride would never want to be a bridegroom, but the perfect counterpart: submitted, humble, beautiful in love and good works. She would never want to be the head herself, but to hold always the head of her Bridegroom, the perfect authority of Jesus Christ.
       Furthermore a rival "son" would be seeking after the bride, he would be setting himself up as God in the church, and trying to be the "head". He would be wanting to take the place of Jesus in the bride's affection and allegiance. The signs and lying wonders would make him more convincing to all who were not submitted to Jesus, and who desired the prideful, exalted position, as opposed to the humble place we are asked to take.
        As to one individual being the Antichrist, like Bush, I could accept him being one of the many antichrists that are already here, but have felt that when the Antichrist is revealed, he would be a spiritual revealing, coming in a spiritual manner, like satan would do it, a counterfeit return, coming quickly, but too quickly, since we are admonished not to go running about believing people who say Jesus is here, and as you said below, the antichrist is revealed FIRST. Sorry for caps, wanted to emphasise.
          Those are my current thoughts. Feel free to relieve me of them!
                 Love, Mary

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ our blessed Savior.  Not to sure where to start but as the Lord leads, I should say.  Mary, I admire you and may I encourage you first of all the woman of God for your faithfulness to this group.  Hold on the Lord blesses endurance.  I can relate sister.  So much for that.  You know because of the wisdom Paul was given he had to deal with the thorn in his flesh.  The grace of God truly is sufficient.  I look back over my life and I know without a shadow of doubt it was God that bought me this far. Some things come by fasting and prayer but I too am reminding myself of that (smile).  Keep up the good works and you will be rewarded.
Now, about the anti-christ issue.  May I say humbly he has been revealed. I agree, Mary Bush might be among the many anti-christ spirits in the world today.  But oooh no he is not the man of sin.  He is alive and well and if we only knew how important it is for us to seek the Lord like never before; because the way the Lord is going to visit His people in these end times is going to be devastating situation to those who will not seek His face and study to show thy self approved so we want be ashamed and caught off guard,and devastated. It's high time we as the body of Christ start discerning what Revelation13, 17,18, 2Thessalonians2, Matthew 24.  Remember Jesus said,"Take heed that no man deceive you".  Don't get me wrong we are to encourage  another, share with one another, love one another but we better make sure we know what the Spirit is saying to the Church concerning end time prophecy, currently.  It's in His Word.  I don't know it all and I am not trying to sound like a know
 it all but this thing of strong delusion is real and I personally have seem the result of judgement on some in the house of God.  Pray for me not against
me please.  I am only trying to be a blessing. I must say what He gives me.  

Hi Mary and Don.

It must not be any secret but I think that the scriptures do point to George Bush as the Antichrist. I don't take it as serious as I could since I also thought the same thing of Richard Nixon. Bush fits especially since it the American church, or Babylon, that he is riding upon. He can fit any of the man of sin descriptions in the Bible. That would take too much time for now though. And time will tell.


Hi Jay,

This is Chimezie from Togo, West Africa. I suppose you are the brother who publishes my writing of-and-on on your website "Latter Rain". Is that? Well, this stuff you wrote is heavy. From my reading of the US christain media I have come to view things differently than what you state here. Is George Bush not a Republican like Reagan and the rest that have been figthing to make America stay on God's path? Are you saying true Christains does be Democrats? My personal view is that the Church is called to be a prophet in every nation and not a politician. As believers, our allegiance MUST NEVER be to any party but rather to the truth. We must never vote for a person because of his party but rather because of who he is and what we discern he can contribute.

Ok I look forward to your reply.

 Hi Chimezie,

Good to hear from you, I have enjoyed what you write for some time. No, I blasted the Democrats along with the Republicans for going along with the One World Order. Christians have compromised with this world system that the antichrist spirit is putting together. The media is also at fault because they are the ad man prophets of multi-national sponsorship that justifies the materialism, so the news is slanted and truth is suppressed. The Christian media is not all right wing but mostly and dissenters and opposing prophets for justice and economic freedom are considered unpatriotic and suppressed. True Christians should be true, that means their actions speak louder than the words of faith alone. Since Jesus will be on the side of the poor in this struggle, the prophets are still in every nation. Since it is the oppressed that Jesus will be setting free, His prophets in third world countries have been hearing Him more clearly. That is the prophetic voice behind liberation theology.

This in connection with Babylon has been one of the messages of mine for many years. I tried to surround myself with the prophets of the Lord but found more prophets of Ahab than any. God love them all. The proof is in our society today with all its rebellion and alienation. Jesus is offering a counter part to that by bringing grace and freedom around the world through His own army. This will happen soon. I believe that the church of the American right is under the strong delusion that God has sent them for believing a lie. Just like John saw of the seat of the beast, the kingdom is full of darkness. Our self-righteous extravagance here in America has plundered the world's natural and human resources in the name of democracy for the rich. These people will subdue any country that threatens their economic interest. Jesus is in the process of bringing justice to the world, in relationship to the poor, the American church on the right, opposes Him.

Not so complicated when reduced to a couple of paragraphs I guess, but there are complicated issues surrounding the mind-set of the Americanism church. Manifest destiny, American messianic fulfillment, covenant thinking, the new Israel in millennial thought, all kinds of questions and answers to explain it.  Thanks for asking. Look forward to hearing more from you.

Yours in Jesus,


Hello Jay and all,
      There are many antichrists as we know and it is not unreasonable to assume that Bush would be THE antichrist because of using that pseudo-spirituality, and the size of your nation, its wealth, its resources and its aggressive and oppressive potential and history worldwide. I see it differently from little Wales, although I heartliy uphold your spiritual and political orientation.
        But I fancy satan likes us to be running around arguing about who is THE antichrist because it is a counterfeit shadow of Jesus' prophecy that there will be false christs, as in Matt 24. It is a pattern and an imitation of what will come.
         While we are doing all that, I fear satan will mount his cleverest deception and come as the Antichrist in signs and lying wonders and spiritual displays of power, and many will think he is Christ. I think it is already happening to an extent in the church that loves the gifts more than the Giver.
          I think he will come locally and nationally and be such a convincing counterfeit that even the elect could be deceived by him.
          But when Jesus comes, no mere rumour or false testimony of His arrival will stand in His presence. We have to hold on, not turning aside to personal assessments of the spiritual times we are living in.
           Leaders in the flesh may have wealth and worldly power, but satan has spiritual power which weak and worldly Christians are unable to distinguish from the spirit of God. My gut tells me that satan will use that weakness and exploit it to the full. He will be delighted if we have settled upon an antichrist theory, because prophetically we will be ready and primed to accept and believe a lie that Christ's return is imminent because the Antichrist is already revealed. We will be ready to believe the lie that satan is Christ.
                     Scary thoughts!  
                        Love, Mary

That is about how far I go with it too. Bush fits the spirit of antichrist. His faith means nothing if his actions do not prove it. The Antichrist, or the beast or the little horn or whatever, as a single entity will oppose whatever God is doing in the world to bring justice and equity in the world. This man of sin will be sitting upon a religious structure, the seat of Babylon. This is no different that what I have been saying, I happen to see this as the American right-wing church.

Like you say Mary, it is not unreasonable, given the actions of George Bush and the inability of the right wing church to see the evil in it, the elect are already being deceived. The god that Dubya prays to in the name of Jesus is not the true God. His god is the god of mammon and world empire that seeks to oppose and magnify himself over the true God. We only need to see the Bible prophets in the light of what is happening today but to understand that, we need to take off those rose colored American blinders first and see what damage is being done in the world by his New World Order. Simple as that..


  Forgive me for being a bit offended by the above comment. President Bush is not perfect, but I believe he is a main of sincere faith who humbly seeks the direction of our Lord Jesus on a daily basis.

  I am also a bit put off by the attitude coming from the Europe towards our nation.  Putting aside the help we gave you all in defeating Nazi Germany, how many other nations would do what we have done in Iraq?

  Does the following list sound like something a tyrannical government would do?


Hi Steve,
            Thank you for coming in on the discussion. I would like to know what your thoughts are on the Antichrist and the times we are living in?
             Had to smile about your comment on American help in the last war. It gave me an interesting feeling like somehow there must have been strings attached which ought to have prevented me from speaking my mind like I did below.
            All in the past now  but it raises the question of what aid is. Biblically, giving is a simple matter of meeting a need. Politically it is a very different thing and there are expectations, hidden agendas, investments, threats, exploitation, oppression, manipulation....
       I know, I have a simple but suspicious mind. But confusing in modern times, with the huge resources continuously at America's disposal, and given the high proportion of worldly powerful Christians in your land, one wonders why more impact has not been made on world poverty.
        I am still trying to work out what this vision is. I was praying earlier and saw the headless and emasculated torso of a bodybuilder. I am thinking this is a picture of misspent resources in the affluent church, anywhere on the planet. Good Babylon picture.
       We have stupidly sought to build our own strength and power, displaying it pridefully against the will of God. We have thought this power would safeguard our Christian interest but it is the very thing that will cause its downfall: it cannot spiritually procreate. Barren, infertile, doomed to fall. Jesus isn't the Head here anymore. A body is built but it is not the church.
       Hmmm. Still thinking about that one.
                    Love, Mary

Hi Mary and Steve,

Glad that you brought up about strings attached Mary, that is what I felt when you mentioned it Steve. You make good points but WW2 was one thing, the New World Order is something entirely different. We are in the midst of the strongest fascist state since Hitler, right here under George Bush. As far as Britain, I think that Tony and George are mates already. American aide to Europe is not helping them to anything but a shared bed with the four heads of the beast. In the third world, aid is just a bribe to dominate the work force. The people don't want Bush but the leaders are committed to being part of the global marketplace.


Hi Jay and all,
       Sorry, I only just realized that Steve sent this to me privately and then unsubscribed. I liked him and I wish he had stayed around because he made some good points and I don't see how we can come to agreement without some dialogue between people of different viewpoints.
         Below he has suggested some things that I find rather hurtful but feel duty bound to examine. I hope we are not narrow, conceited, prideful ...and I don't think we have suggested that we have "special insights"....but it isn't too long since someone else said just that. Maybe we should worry but maybe we should just be encouraged and press on.
           I understand what he means by throwing away the charts. This subject does inflame people who have very strong views. So many say they have received revelation about end times prophecy and then they want you to see it the same way as them. I am naturally resistant to that and dig my heels in.
           I hope I am being careful, reasonable and respectful. I am aware that much I don't know but when I "see" things finally and know it comes from God I hold on like a rottweiler.
           I read and wait for understanding in a state of tension, because at the same time I have this urgency in me that I have to get a hold of it because there isn't much time. I have been criticised for that recently too but one day there will be no more time, nada, too late.
            America is so unimaginably vast, wealthy and lavishly armed as to be conspicuous surely in end time prophecy and events quite without any evil doings. But there are evil doings. Even to me over here with only relative scraps of knowledge of world politics to you guys here, I can see that.
             Then it isn't much of a step to see that a huge power plus a convincing religious show is quite a toxic mixture potentially and fits very well with the scary stuff prophesied in the Bible. Who else is being talked about here? Us, surely, not someone else in some other part of the planet that we haven't come into contact with yet.
            I wish a few more would contribute on this subject. We will have no rudeness or abuse, or anyone trying to impose their views on another. C'mon peeps, if I who am the least able in this kind of understanding can be brave enough to give it a shot, so can others.
              Love, Mary

President George W. Bush, like his father, George Herbert Walker Bush who, during his Presidency cursed the Jewish nation and thus sentenced himself to became a one term President. I´ve heard many pro-Israel Jews claim that this President Bush is "one of the best friends Israel has". I agree, he smiles pleasantly when he delivers his orders for Israel to dismantle and follow his Road Map to perdition.

Somewhere near the start of this George Bush presidency, I saw similar traits as his father exhibited and I forecast then that he would likely be a one term President.

Recent polls indicate that Bush ranges between neck-and-neck with John Kerry while other polls show him several points behind. I do not look forward to a Kerry presidency insofar as he pledges to fight Global Terrorism. Regrettably, Bush fell back into the old mode of his father by attempting to appease Saudi Arabia and the other Arab Muslim oil nations by initiating the dismemberment of the Jewish State of Israel.

But, Bush introduced his Road Map in his June 2002 speech - which was dangerously revised by the Arabist U.S. State Department, together with the anti-Israel U.N., the anti-Semitic European Union and Russia (whose history is red with Jewish pogroms). Since the Quartet re-invented the Road Map, with no object from Bush, the pressure from the White House and the State Department has increased exponentially. The need for a political win in the Middle East to offset the losses in Iraq become more important than preserving the Jewish State of Israel.

The weak leadership in Israel started to bend and finally broke under the unending threats from the Bush Administration to re-partition the tiny Jewish State of Israel on its way to extinction. The pro-Arab U.S. State Department has been working toward this goal ever since the Land of Israel was partitioned by the U.N. in 1947 (against the strenuous objections by the State Department). The day Israel falls (God forbid), be assured that champagne will literally flow down the halls of the State Department.

Bush, following his father´s lead in practice, allowed State to unleash its anti-Israel dogs to attack the Jewish State with every tool and propaganda mechanism in its large inventory. Washington has long known that neither Israel nor the U.S. could pacify the Arab Muslim Palestinian Terrorists or the supporting Arab Muslim nations.

If they did not really know before 9/11, followed by the American and allies attack against the Taliban in Afghanistan and then in Iraq against the monster, Saddam Hussein - they must certain know it now. There is no pacification of Islamist/Jihadists - no matter what you offer them by way of appeasement, including the deaths and wounding of Americans fighting to save them from tyranny and even the sacrifice of Israel.

America learned that the 56+ years the Muslim terrorists have been fighting Israel was not just a single aberration of Islam´s hostility to Jews. Now they´ve learned that also includes the Christian West. They experience it daily in Iraq as Muslims from all over the Arab world came through Syria to join Iraqis in killing American soldiers - daily. They are also killing, bombing, ambushing the civilian construction workers who are trying to restore electricity, water, security and other civil services to the Iraqi people.

The headlines today (June 14th) read: "In Race to Give Power to Iraqis, Electricity Lags: U.S. Falls Short of Goal for Reviving Output". This outrageous story appears the same day 13 civilian construction workers (including one American, one Brit, 2 French) were car-bombed to death. (1) This was the day after 13 Iraqis, including 4 Iraqi police officers were blown up in separate car bombs in Bagdad.

American good-will attempts to appease them through winning their hearts and minds by providing these services simply do not work to prevent their Muslim Terror attacks against "The Great Satan" (their name for America). Now the Bush Administration is desperately trying to find a way out and, like his father, is perfectly willing to offer up Israel as a sacrifice.  The Muslims call Israel "The Little Satan".

Knowing all this about Arabs, Muslims, radical Muslims, Islamists, Jihadists - Bush has turned on Israel as his own political solution - using force against her weak leadership to create a false win of the Bush Plan to democratize the Middle East. So, he took the only democracy and advanced civilization in the Middle East - the only country in world who votes with America consistently in the U.N. and begins to force her dissolution. He was determined to create what he knows will inevitably be an International Terror State for the Arab Muslim Palestinians which would show the hostile Arab nations that he was their friend and collaborator. He was going to not only shrink Israel beyond her present vulnerable, minuscule size but, would insure that the only productive people in the Middle East (the Jews) were forced from their ancient homeland.

Thus began a landslide of threats to the weak government of Israel´s Prime Minister Ariel (Arik) Sharon. The threats were credible since Israel relies upon her "friend and ally" for spare parts, trade and hopefully a vote against the corrupt United Nations as a voice of reason against the always hostile Europeans so closely allied with the oil-bearing Arab/Muslim nations

With all that in mind, I repeat the oft-stated injunction of HaShem (God): I will Bless those who bless you; and Curse those who curse you."

The Bush Dynasty has cursed the Jewish nation and allied themselves with Israel´s most dedicated Arab and Muslim enemies. I ignore the self-serving gestures, smiles and nice speeches used for political cover to persuade his Christian Right Coalition and Jews that Bush is a friend of the Jewish people and nation. It´s not what they say (or how nicely they say it) but, it´s what they do! I do recall the reported phone conversation between the elder Bush and King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia wherein Bush assured the Saudi King, "...not to worry. My son will take care of you." And so he has.)

Presently, Bush and Sharon are ethnically cleansing the land that God promised to the Jewish people.

We do not know how they and the nations who are gathering against Israel (as predicted) will be punished. They are now in before the Universal Court and will be judged. I only regret that the punishment must be shared by good people who stand near them. We read now in the Torah about the traitor, Korach, who challenged Moses and God, Himself in the desert - only to have the earth open its mouth and swallow Korach and all who stood near him. A Universal ruling is long over-due for the nations and the peoples who have cursed the Jews and the Jewish nation.

At the end of ‘Shacharit´ (Jewish morning prayers) there is a closing line of thought: "Do not fear the sudden terror, nor the destruction of the wicked. Contrive a scheme but, it will be foiled. Conspire a plot but it will not materialize, for God is with us."

Perhaps God is listening and will keep His Promise of cursing all those who curse His anointed people.

 In Him, Tim.

In the Johannine Epistles, where the word 'Antichrist' appears for the first time, the idea is spiritualized as nowhere else in the New Testament except in the teaching of Jesus.  The Antichrist is not, as in the Apocalypse, a material world-power threatening the Church from without, but a spirit of false doctrine rising up from within [1 Jn. 2:19].  Even now there are many antichrists, and the spirit of Antichrist is already in the world.  It is the refusal to acknowledge the Son as well as the Father; more explicitly it is the refusal to confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.  Sounds like our illustrious government to me.  They [whether you call them conservative or liberal]; they are non of His in what they do.  Everywhere they are trying to keep Christ out of public consciousness.

The ultimate authority for our thoughts on the subject of 'Antichrist' must be found in the words of Jesus when He teaches us to pray for deliverance from 'the evil one' [Mt. 6:13], and warns us against false Christs and false prophets who proclaim a kingdom that is not His own.


I do not know if Bush is the Antichrist. I do know, from the view point of a high school drop out that finally got some education that his speech or like thereof leaves lots to be desired. His syntax and non mastery of the facts leave me at a loss to understand him. He is certainly lacking in appearing to be educated, or giving well thought out answers. Unless I am missing it entirely he doesn't read from script very well either.

Having said that, if my observations are near, correct that would disqualify him from being the Antichrist.

Yes I am a Democrat, one that dose not support abortion, most of the time dose not support the ACLU. Most of what Fox News labels the far left are mostly, admittedly comedians, so are the far right, seemingly the right just dose not recognize that.

I once heard the process of picking the candidate to vote for was similar to picking the roundest patty in the pasture, I often feel that way too. I shall vote, and vote my conscience, and, encourage all to do so also.

If one really investigates for truth, one will find many lies coming from both camps.

I, for one, am thankful that my salvation is not in the hands of either party.


Hi Don,

Thanks for writing, we agree a lot here and this gives me a chance to say so. From all the live appearances and promo and news spots and such, there is much to believe that George Bush is a mental midget. The kindest that can be said about him is that things were too easy for him in growing up and he may have learning disabilities. To anyone not under his spell, he comes off like a buffoon.

That wouldn't disqualify for him being the Antichrist though, he will be controlled by spiritual forces beyond his control and it would take a fool not to notice. He says a lot of good but everything he does around the world is against the cause of Christ.

I will be putting you on the latter rain list, the Antichrist piece is yet to be sent to them and I am working on it this morning.


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