The Elijah Syndrome - Part Two: Loneliness

March 21, 2003

We are discussing three parts to the Elijah Syndrome. The first part was inertia; the second is loneliness and the third, despair.


What a success that Elijah had. He stands alone, confronts King Ahab, rebuilds the altar of the Lord, calls down fire and slays the false prophets of Baal. Elijah achieves a stunning victory but one word from Jezebel and he runs for his life into the wilderness, hides in a cave and cries out "I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away."

Well, a prophet with a personal pity party. Nothing new today. The moral of course is that God had told Elijah that he was not alone and that "I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him."

First of all, just because you are a prophet or a pastor or an apostle does not make you stronger than your hearers, if you think so, you just may have your weakness shown like it did with Elijah. It is not in God's nature to treat any of us differently than His other children. Too many Christian leaders today have never been servants, they put apostle in front of their names and demand obedience, they think that if they have a title or a big salary or following that they are somehow above the rest, hear the voice of God and get all puffed up. They talk of submission, authority and coverings. The five-fold ministry becomes a crumbling foundation in these cases, upon the glory of man. The big head that many in the ministry get is fleshly pride masquerading as false authority and it will only alienate others and force them into retreat and isolation. Many of you remember Pogo saying "we have met the enemy and they is us."

For many Christians the Elijah Syndrome has turned into a form of mental illness. The church, with its Jezebel spirit and authoritarian structure is not meeting the needs of many spiritual people and the prophetic naturally seeks an overcoming spirit. These unmet needs are often projected onto others through paranoia and imagined enemies. The work of God becomes a neurotic habit rather than a calling, which erodes into delusion, which in turn leads to even more deception and alienation. These perceived fears are then transferred to others out of a misguided concern for them. Anxieties are fulfilled through symbolic satisfactions of doing God's work out of these delusions instead of being led by the Spirit. Reality sets in and they are all alone with their delusions.

No matter how dedicated to the Lord one may be, these delusions are of the flesh and a foul spirit of self-absorption. Once the delusion sets in, they think it is God's work and pride sets in. Out of perceived self-sacrifice, they start thinking too highly of themselves and come into judgment of others as not worthy of their company and lose the natural affection due the children of God. They become resentful, easily offended and touchy, one thing leads to another and they become bitter, vindictive and just downright nasty.

We have all seen prideful prophets off by themselves with a special word for the church without the tenderness, comfort and encouragement necessary to bear witness to God's love for us. All they need to have is enough people reject their message and they are in the Elijah Syndrome. They are then off by themselves thinking that they are all alone and the only one around that is correctly hearing the Lord. They treat the church as unworthy, get off by themselves and try to draw others with them into home groups or another church or simply don't fellowship at all.

We are all susceptible to the Elijah Syndrome. We all need a breakthrough for the sake of the church, but above all, we need love and understanding no matter how nasty we get. All of us called to the perfection of the Bride of Christ need sound minds and willing spirits. Sick people can be healed and He will use us to heal or be healed. We need to work together on this; it is only truth in love that will set the church free.

The brook has dried up; there is no water. It is time to come out of our hiding, out of the wilderness, out of our caves, out of our delusions and bring living water to the masses. There has been a dearth of God's word today and those least willing to compromise are not getting what they need. Men women and children of God are running everywhere either lifting themselves up instead of Jesus or humbling themselves and getting hurt in the process. Jezebel is still silencing the Lord's prophets by practically starving them to death with bread and polluted water. We need meat, we need times of refreshing, we need a mighty outpouring of the Holy Spirit but we must be healthy enough to take it in, we need to separate from the affairs of the world and we need to love our brothers and sisters unconditionally.

Listen people. God has already sent revival; all we need to do is be revived. He has already poured out His spirit, we only need to accept it. He has already given us all the tools we need but we must apply them. You are not alone in this, there are people all around you hearing the Lord and waiting to be sent upon our final task. It is not enough to be invited to the banquet table; you need to accept the invitation by attending. That takes unity. You want joy? You want praise and worship? Do what you have been called to do but stop fighting amongst others who have also been called or you will not be part of it and will only lead to frustration and despair.

So we need to treat the people under the Elijah Syndrome with love and understanding, but what of you that are under the delusions? Get over it. You are loved, don't reject and separate from the people that love you. We are all unique individuals with unique gifts to share with others. Humble yourself by understanding who you are apart from grace. Have you been going into churches and can't find anyone who gives you a smile? Try smiling. You can't find a friend? Be a friend and you will find hundreds. No one listens to you? Try listening first. No one likes a know-it-all that expects others to cower under your superior spiritual understanding. Stop the constant judgment and condemnation knowing what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you. Take the beam out of your own eye. It's not the institutional system that is flawed as much as your own heart. God still requires love to be able to identify His children.

What great responses we had this time, and victories too. I want to just praise the Lord, join me. I am saving the responses on confronting Ahab and the prophets of Baal until later.

This is only part two, the next part is the despair that so many Christians fall into once they feel isolated and alone. Hit reply and get back to me on the Elijah Syndrome. If you have some insights on the frustration, burnout, depression, fatigue and despair that the Elijah Syndrome sometimes causes, please share them. Come on by the forum also if you like at where we can discuss back and forth as a fellowship.

Jay you, Jay!!
And just remember...Elijah is one of few that went to Heaven alive...via the chariots of God...taken up...alive...and he is one of the two at the Mount of Transfiguration with our Lord. Keep looking up...


Hi Jay:

I am with you. It is so refreshing to hear from someone who doesn't sugarcoat the Gospel of JESUS Christ, and who isn't afraid to step on toes. So what if we are the minority .... We are God's!


Hi Jay,

Just doing a little reading on your list today. Great insights by your readers. I think we have all probably experienced some of what Elijah was going through. Discouragement…and depression.

Elijah had just come from a mountain top experience, a spiritual high. He soon found, you can not live on a mountain top…although we would like to. Eventually you have to come back down. And it is at this point that you will be many times, at your weakest.

You are many times most vulnerable for several reasons. You may feel as though you're pretty special. You can do things in your own power…don't need God, after all you can call down rain…fire…and even defeat the prophets of baal. We sometimes get self dependent rather than God dependent. Then we become open targets for satan's greatest tool, discouragement.

Another reason Elijah may have been discouraged, was fatigue. He had been under intense pressure for some three and a half years. I think we may all have a little first hand experience with spiritual warfare. It can leave you both physically and emotionally drained. It can make you want to hide in a cave.

He may have been experiencing a little burn out. After all, he was going it alone, or at least that's what he thought, for about three and a half years.

I think there are some valuable lessons we can learn from Elijah's experience. We need to be on guard not to try to go it alone. We need each other as well as a close dependence on God. Remember, it is "Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit saith the Lord." Don't overdo it. Get the rest both physical and spiritual that we need. Not only rest but the spiritual nourishment that we need.

During these times we need to have an even greater sense of God's presence…

1 Kings 19:11-12

11 So He said, "Go forth and stand on the mountain before the Lord." And behold, the Lord was passing by! And a great and strong wind was rending the mountains and breaking in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a sound of a gentle blowing. NAS (a still small voice)KJV

His presence is ever so near…

Love Ya,

Pastor Ron

Hi Pastor Ron,

So good to see you posting to the list. You always have some good teaching to share.

Yes, the discouragement and depression is what I am building up to share for next time although I may be confronting some of that Baal spirit before I do. The burnout is also something that I had experienced in the past that I wanted to bring up too. I had read some very good things on a couple of other sites on this that alerted me to what I had been feeling myself at times. I recognized it even then but it took some time to really get over it. That burnout is part of the inertia that I was feeling among other things.

I like what you say about the mountain top, we can't live there, eventually we have to come down. That can be depressing.

Thanks for the input, see you in church.


Greetings, Jay.

I appreciate this message. It turns me inward to face a truth I know about myself, and one I do not like. There are times I know the truth that needs to be spoken, but I talk myself out of speaking up because I am trying to avoid unpleasant consequences. I also have a hard time telling if I'm acting out of the motive of being a peacemaker or if I'm just being a coward in those situations. I'm certainly no Elijah, but I do often feel I have an awareness of the presence of the Lord when others around me don't, and I often know a message that would apply to the issue at hand, but I'm not confident what to do with people who are not asking or showing an interest in an answer or exhortation from the Spirit. I guess what I'm saying is, I share when I think it is safe, and stuff it when I don't. Can you help me out with this? I'm positive you have had to resolve this issue for yourself.


Hi Peg,

Appreciate the reply one on one, you have been a real blessing on the lightship in the short time that I have seen you here. Speaking out when we should takes courage because there will be negative spiritual resistance, fearing the consequences is one of them. Speaking out when we should not is sometimes easier because the resistance is gone. It is all either in the flesh or spirit and always an uphill battle. Have you ever heard someone say something stupid and then dismiss it with "I am just speaking my mind"? We all have. That is a real danger, we need to exercise self control, to curb our tongue and not just blurt out whatever is on our mind regardless of the consequences. In the prophetic, it is a delicate balance.

Since you are asking for help on this, I would merely advise you to simply seek the Lord with all of your heart. Things are not always easy to discern. Since we all make mistakes, we often speak out of turn. A couple of the responses that I got on the Inertia post are thanking me for stepping on toes. Although that may be good, I am not trying to step on toes unless they are the devils toes. I am trying to denounce the false spirit in people, not the people themselves. Not so easy, some will get offended but it is my intent to lift them up, not put them down. Sometimes being harsh is part of that but I have to recognize that the confrontation that Elijah had toward the prophets of Baal was from the Lord but we can't go around slaying prophets. We need to rebuke and correct in love, gentleness and a sweet spirit, unfortunately it will not come across effectively unless it is spiritually received.

I learned about the Elijah syndrome first hand. The school of hard knocks may or may not be the best way to learn but it took the understanding of others to correct me, so I am very attentive to the opinions of others. Again discernment is needed there. As soon as you joined the lightship, you recognized the confusion that was going on and spoke out in a spiritual direction to correct it. That was the Lord speaking through you, it was done in love and understanding. It is sometimes harder for me to speak out because I don't want to dominate the discussions so I pray for others to speak out in the spirit and learn some things for themselves. Sometimes I feel that they really don't want to hear from me so much and I am not good at small talk but I have to be careful not to say too little. I am criticized either way.

There were a couple people just before you came that wanted to dominate the discussions with false doctrine and I had to put them down. I hate doing that and look real bad doing it but felt it was necessary for the health of the group. One of them got really nasty, sent hate mail to Mary and me and then sent his friends to harass us and tried to take members onto another group.

So, yes I have had to resolve these issues but I do not always do it right. There are many times that I can think of where I should have handled things differently.

All in a day's work I guess.

Thanks for writing.


Thanks, Jay,

This helped me:

"It is sometimes harder for me to speak out because I don't want to dominate the discussions so I pray for others to speak out in the spirit and learn some things for themselves."

I think this reflects more what I'm currently learning than whether or not I am a coward to speak the things of the Lord. When I use the lens of your words to look at those situations I'm thinking about, my dilemma is really what you describe here. I don't want to dominate and I guess for two reasons:

  1. I'm not wanting to come across as somebody that is "holier than thou" and "thinks they know it all";

  2. I'm trying not to "rescue" others from their own processing and growing in the Lord so I'm thinking that I get the message in the Spirit so I can have understanding where that person or group of persons are in their growth, but not necessarily to speak it out, lest I dishearten them in their journeys with the Spirit.

You are right. It takes a lot of painstaking discernment and prayer. I just pray I am not a coward when the moment counts and I know I need to speak out an unpopular word.

You were a great help to me.


Dearest Brother Jay,

I just wanted to drop you a note, after receiving your latest letter. I'm sure you don't remember me, writing you early last summer...July, I believe! I was in such turmoil, with all I had seen going on in the church, I, & my family, had been attending, for some time. Our Pastor had attended some "out of state" church's, & had brought back, a lot of false teaching.......Even though, through-out that last year, there, I was very aware of this, God had told me to "Wait", as far as leaving. It took prayer, prayer & more prayer, to open the eyes of my grown children, & they're families. Praise God, for answered prayer! After some events occurred, they finally "saw the Light"!

We are now attending a church, where the Word is taught, & preached!....This since August. I say all this, because of what I see happening, even still..........I pray I can make myself understood......I have come to realize, even though we are not there anymore, There is still a poison, that must be removed....again I say, I pray I can explain this......For all the "false" that was ingested, The Truth must replace it.

It has been a struggle for some of my family, more than others. Even myself, knowing what I was hearing, & seeing, was wrong ( at times I felt like spirit being so vexed ), have had a hard time recovering. I compare it to a war vet., who has flash-back's, of the battle field. A lot of healing has taken place, but more is needed. In this, I trust my Lord. Those who have been caught up in this, at one time or another, must be careful not to allow their hearts to become "hardened" to the "true" moving's of God.

You are so right...deception abounds! Do I believe things will get any better? no...only worse, before the coming of our Lord. ..Our only defense is the Word....if it doesn't "line-up" with the word, "it's out of here" as far as I'm concerned. My prayer, is that I may help someone else, caught up in a similar situation. Do I believe God sent us, years ago, to this church...yes! So I must believe it was for a reason.

I pray, anyone who comes in contact with people, who have "come out" of a situation, where false teaching & doctrine, were propagated, will be understanding. Give them the truth, with love....pray, pray, & keep praying. Snatch as many as you can, out of the fire.

Thank you for "listening".......

In Christ, jaunita

Hi Jaunita,

You don't mention what the false teaching was but it is significant that you recognized it as such - and that they had seen the light. More and more, I believe that many churches will finally come to the knowledge that they better start waking up and getting things together and like you say, replace the false with the truth.

As far as things getting worse instead of better, I believe that there will be more of a polarization coming where some things will be getting worse in the churches and other things getting better. After all, we are to bring the church to maturity before the Lord returns for a perfect Bride. Things will be contrasted more so we can recognize the true from the false.

I like what you say about the battlefield and flashbacks. Many of us get battle weary, that is part of the illness that many have when under the Elijah Syndrome, it is burnout, depression, fatigue and must be dealt with or despair will take the place of the hope that we should be having.

This is good teaching Juanita, thanks.


Hi there!

This is a blessing to read from you. As usual you are the radical one, but I hear you brother and believe you too. A couple of Saturdays ago the Lord started to deal with me along those lines and to be sincere I have been kind of scared. I saw something that really took my attention along those lines. Because I care for my pastor I went to him to share what I thought to be a word of warning. I was not prepared for what came afterwards.

Maybe all that I saw that Saturday was meant for me only. Maybe I acted too swiftly in sharing and this was one of those things that need to go deep before it gets out. I saw a danger and because I cared for the people involved I ran to warn of something I did not have clear in my intellect but was pressing in my heart and a burden in my spirit. I ended up doing wrong instead of helping to myself and to others. Even so it has had a way of working a blessing behind it. I now discover in me that I can not doubt the vision and that the opinions of men do not sway me as before. I am scared of it (what I saw), but I can not dismiss it anymore even if it is rejected and no one else believes it or hears it.

I know I was shown something. I may have been deceived but I know it was real. Then the testing of the word must take place and discernment be received from Him.

I did not believe it to be prophetic at first, did not even think about it in those terms. It was something I was not aware of it, but one thing I knew, it was not a deduction. It did not come from an intellectual process, I saw, it was "shown" in the inner vision. I saw it, but my intellect was kept in dark. I was not able to explain what I saw even though my spirit was in it and He would not move His finger from it. It is such a thin line between the true and the counterfeit.

This is one of the most painful things to receive and to open myself to. It is scary. It is way beyond me and it renders me helpless, that is what makes it scary. Then how can I talk of trust if I can not embrace Him there. I now this will change my whole life but I have no idea of how far it will go and how it will end up looking. Is this then when one must tie the heart to the horns of the altar and just wait until He arises in trust in us?

Abba, have mercy on us!

Here is an excerpt of a letter I wrote to a sister about it. She too has been moved to see at this same hour. What is the Spirit stirring with His finger upon us all now? Will we dare to see into it and allow His truth to bare us naked before we are washed in His word? Will we? The double edge of the sword placed in our mouths is made to cuts us first, are we willing to die so others may live? I think the hour is coming to abandon all and follow Him.

(excerpt from a letter)

Then what I thought of as the administrative aspect of the whole thing opened up and it looked like a different mind inside a head. Then there was the mind in which we walk, simply seeking Him and abiding in His word, walking in the anointing. Also the "other mind" taking care of things and promoting the ministry and dealing with the task. But in that mind/head was no anointing, it was hard work, a work viewed necessary but dry and difficult.

I have heard at times, people expressing that division in their lives. It goes like, "but that is OK for you but I do not have the time to spend my whole life praying". There is a false division between seeking Him and serving Him. Maybe is more simple than that. Maybe is just the habit of doing familiar chores and what is expected, reassuring in that we know what is next. I do not know. But this I see, that without need to do so, we tend to walk in the other mind, as if serving and abiding in the mind of Christ were things opposite to each other. Service in the Lord, is called to be a prayer. We are called to become prayer or it will be wood and hay. I tried to warn him but I did not do it right. These are things he knows, but I saw something there that Saturday (for the first time) that is tragic and sad to the one who fall in it.

I tried to tell him not to depart from the praying and the ministering of the word. It was not without reason that they decided to give themselves to that in the book of acts. Sad thing is, is that supposed to be for an elite or are we all called into that? We are talking New Testament stuff in here. What exactly happened there? How does the one who tends table can become Stephen full of glory beholding the heavens opened and the Son of God standing to receive him into glory? They had something that has been lost through the years and we need to unearth it from under tradition and pride. What we have is a church divided and unable to leave the pews to live the gospel and I have lived that myself not knowing how to or what is it I am supposed to do. Scared of the implications and the life changing ramification that will sprout from there. Even those who have grasped it more, have done so more in the intellectual level than in the practical application to it. It is painful, no one knows what to expect for sure, its demanding because there is no way back from it.

Suddenly, that Saturday I saw the dance of titles and greetings so empty, so void. Let me make this clear, it was not that I saw them doing that, it was shown to me in the inner vision, so this may not refer to those who gathered that day there but to the establishment church at large. Oh yes I do believe in the five fold ministry restoration. I believe that in the Bride it will be alive and active ministration of the five fold in power not words and without useless titles. What is more sad is the way all these things have been made to appeal to the flesh and the pride of man then rendering them useless to the Lord. The whole church structure is geared into promoting and enthroning the flesh of man. There is no other way around it. It's like trying to make soup in a coffee machine, you may get something but it won't be what you expected.

"They loved more the glory of men than the glory of God". But don't we tend to be like that? We greet each other and we form fan clubs. I am starting to see that it may never happen. It may never be inside the church, that people rise to a living relationship with their Lord and a commitment that turns them into living prayers. Not in the establishment. It is completely geared to something else. It feels fine, it is fun too, but it won't remain, because the body stays divided in the lifestyle of our culture instead of united in the life of Christ our head. The seal of discipleship in which people will see that we are one, see and not hear is far from real among us. We offer it lip service. We speak nicely, but we cannot live it. It can not be lived within that structure because it is entirely geared to something else and the moment we park the car in the garage of our homes, church is finished. Then we defend that little space like a matter of survival. There has to be a way. There has to be a way, so many can not be lost like that.

"Depart from Me I knew you not". Wouldn't it be terrible to wake up at that moment? What can be done? Then it is so scary XXX, to think : OK I will stand and go the Way. But what do I know about it? I am just a sheep mostly ignorant of all. Fear is sown in our hearts instead of faith and that is also the product of that system. Also a way of control, even if the people serving are not controlling, it is ingrained within the system to be like that. It is confusion also because there is no clear vision since the basis for that is not laid as a foundation, by allowing Him become all in all. I am a product of that system. I can see its traces in me.

The gospel is simple. Does no require seminars, internships, seminaries, schools of divinity, conferences, books and pamphlets... It is simple and in its simplicity it is hidden and remains hidden from the wise. What have we done of it? Our knowledge, our own knowledge is what refrains us from entering and releasing. Unless we can become like little children we all risk being lost. We have spend our whole lives serving and may discover at the end that we have served ourselves only and that He knew us not. We may get busy to the verge of exhaustion and yet never become near to the One we love. To obey is better than sacrifice. Our own affections refrains us, for we have loved the glory of men above the glory of God.

Your servant in His love;
Luz Cintrón

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come and His wife hath made herself ready ...Revelation 19:7

Hi Luz, It is always a blessing to hear from you too. And now that you are on the lightship it will be a joy fellowshipping with you there as well I am sure.

Radical for Jesus, that has a nice ring to it. I am a little bit out there I know but right where I should be and it's nice to know that others around me accept me as I am and agree. I have heard from others about the scary part coming. Jesus said let not your heart be troubled but I am more worried about the state of the church than the state of the union. We know that the nations will crumble but the souls of so many people in jeopardy is of greater concern. The danger is hard to identify because the veil is not completely lifted yet, too many mysteries and unanswered questions. It is just like you say, a thin line between the true and the counterfeit but every day, things become more clear.

For me, my visions contain more than I am even able to say. It is as if I am not yet allowed to tell of many things until the time is right and like Daniel, shut up the words until the time of the end. The end is near however so the anxiety only increases each hour. I long for the time that I do not have to write so cryptically and can speak more clearly. I am scared of that too but know that God would not have brought me this far to leave me alone. Step by step, we are coming together with the same mind.

It is an exciting time for us.


Oh !!!!!!! you are talking my language.........false authority, self elevated, and self centered......all of which in my opinion are encouraged by those whom are of like the Lord Jesus The Christ has told me........WHAT YOU FIND IN THE PULPIT, IS IN THE PEW...........


May I offer another possible way of looking at Elijah? Since Jesus considered him the best of the prophets.

Before the prophet (or any leader, minister, teacher, apostle, etc) could do warfare in the larger spiritual realm he needed to be trained in several areas:

  1. Learn to be totally dependent on the basics for life from God.
  2. Recognize God's calling you to go where He directs you.
  3. Allow someone else, who may be of less faith, to provide for you, which develops that person's faith to trust and obey God for her/his needs and give to others.
  4. Doing this, the man of faith develops the mantle of humility.
  5. In learning to trust God with what He does with those you are ministering to, there is time of testing for developing faith, and generally involves the thing, person, or security most valued by the person(s).
  6. The prophet/leader further learns humility and secrecy (a spiritual discipline) by wholeheartedly coming to God for Life to be given to someone, and does it without an audience.
  7. Results, God's character and nature is revealed in the prophet, and what the prophet speaks is anointed and empowered to accomplish what it says.
  8. Patience is developed after a powerful time of ministry. It may be a long time before God moves the prophet to minister in the most powerful warfare and victory if his/her life; but the preparation and discipline of trust, obedience, character, kindness, humility and genuine love has been developed.

Thank you,

A Servant of the Lord Bonnie Brown

Shalom Jay,

I knew I wasn't alone regarding this issue! HalleluYAh! It is time for those to confront the spirit of jezebel, in the spirit of EliYah! you hit the nail on the head with this issue! It gives me more encouragement to confront.

Yah Bless
In the Spirit of EliYah

Dear Brother in Christ Jesus

It has been awhile since I have replied to one or your articles. I do agree strongly that there is a veil of deception in the Body of Christ. The Lord reminds me often that judgement begins at His House. It is time for those who are called to stand up and repair the breach and to correct those who are in positions that lead the flock astray. In the body that the Lord has us pastoring right now, the number topic for about two years is a intimate relationship with Jesus and to obey His commandments. We have had to stand, some times in the light of what Elija said that he was alone. But by the Holy Spirit, we know there are those who do stand and fight for the truth of our Lord Jesus. Be blessed and be encouraged, keep fighting with the might of the Holy Spirit, standing on the truth not waving.

Pastor Richard

Wow! This is good. Thanks for stepping on toes. . . below is a Word the Lord gave me for this year . . . ACCOUNTABILITY.



December 24, 2002

Thus sayeth the Lord, accountability in 2003 . . . a fire is coming across this land; unto the threshing floor those will go that defile and call themselves by My name . . .separating sheep from the goats, a further work of My kingdom. Then into the fiery furnace (Isa. 48:10) many will go, to refine and purify those that will stay. For you see, many will jump out and deny My name, for their commitment to Me is only on the surface, causing themselves to be seen, having no foundation in Me. Those that have been faithful to Me, to read and heed My Word and show dignity to My family, shall come forth, as this is the coming hour that thou shalt walk in My power and authority. For this is the preparation of thy soul for My Spirit - that He may flow. They shall look upon My people with fear and they shall say - touch not those people - for they have a power - a power we know not. Leave them alone (I Sam. 18:12; Mark 4:41).

These hidden away ones, for years it has been, seeking no glory, receiving not a position of the head; lowly parts they have gladly been, knowing their time would some day come to be brought forth and not to succumb, for surely they will have their reward, beginning in 2003.

Careful to show honor to Me (to My children) . . . this must be. Those that have been hidden with Me, know to be humble and prefer their brethren, as they do Me. For you have not discerned who is sent by Me and have no fear to talk against Me. They recognized not My Son when He did come, lonely in stature and uncomely He was, soon to be positioned (glorified; transfigured) in the hidden away ones. Rejection there will again be; only by the blinded ones you see.

You will know My disciples by their love one onto another. Those that have been with Me, know that how they treat each other, that is how they do treat Me, submitting one onto the other in fear of Me (Eph. 5:21), no matter the gender, only to obey Me.

Love and unity will be the force, to drive the evil from your ports. Joined together by My Spirit, a mighty army of power and grace, going forth to deliver My message, without compromise . . . repent and be saved within this day. Oh, if only they would heed.

A weeping nation you will soon be called. Devastation coming, many shall weep; accountability beginning in 2003 for those that placed themselves in My family. To My faithful chosen few, snares will be broken and free you shall be, your victory you surely shall see.

we fail as Elijah failed when Jezebel challenged and threatened Elijah with his head ( mindsets).

Today we have been taught to be submissive to our leadership in the Church, etc. There is no repentance nor retentive hearts..

Our weapons are not carnal but mighty in God for the pulling down of strongholds. Strongholds are manifested in humans by Satan and his demons.

As Balaam said one cannot curse what God has not cursed, and in Proverbs a curse without cause cannot alight! Jesus cursed the fig tree's roots, apparently when it was out of season, and He commands that if we have a mustard seed faith, we can remove mountains ( of evil works).. which Satan manifest through man's hands and hearts.. But we have been taught to turn the other cheek, and gradually become impervious to sin even amongst the Pastors and pastoral staff.

God uses man to carry out His Will and His Blessings for others, it applies to curses against Satan and his works of darkness.

We have seen 2000 years come by and go.. and the Lord in His Mercy and Grace has given us a few individuals like Smith Wigglesworth, John G Lake, Banham, Kulmann where he had worked great numbers of miracles. Whilst the church at large has seen a sprinkling occasionally, of reminders that the Holy Spirit is still waiting for us to move into the power and the glory that has been given to us after the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus..

The Church is at war against evil 24 X 7 hours, not just on Sundays and conferences.. But we have become sanguine.

The gates of hell are still prevailing, for we have only storm them occasionally..

How about now putting on the armor of Light, armed with the Baptism of Fire, and be a Warrior and a Minster of flame for God!. And make war against Satan and His wicked works of darkness and of sickness, and may the Lord have mercy on those who are used by the evil one for his wickedness.

See John 20:23: (NKJ) "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; but if you retain (judge) the sins of any, they are retained (judged)." Parentheses are my interpretation.

But we shy away...

The evidence in the Church at large its inabilities to overcome the works of darkness, we are not doers of the word, which is spirit and is life to those who believe.

Would be interesting to have your comments..

in Him, I live , move and have my very being

Winston Tan

I could not agree with you more. The prosperity movement and all the game that goes with it is actually a resurrection of old catholic heresy that stated that you were blessed if you were rich. This spirit also creates a disdain for the poor and needy, which makes up most of the people in the world. I am looking for the exact quote from the Pope at that time but it has the same consequences in that it increases the church's indulgences. I am amazed at how willing preachers are to break the Apostolic tradition blame it on God telling them to do so! But could you elaborate on the so-called miracles that these guys and gals perform like so-called healings, tongues and etc? They are liars but the have great power of deception.


You know Jay, I had unsubscribed from your list a while ago and then at 300 a.m. i woke up to check my emails and you were in there talking about Mammon - I had gone into your site thru a google search on Mammon yesterday to look at this. Does your site automatically resend out to an old list member when you log onto it????? My reasons for asking this are because it is weird to have received this message while I myself am studying the whole babylon system. On the morning of 911/01, about 8:00 a.m. one of the words I kept hearing was 'Come out of it' but just recently I am convicted of studying this to understand just what it is I am to come out of. I don't understand how I got resubscribed but please keep sending me this teaching.

Marilyn T.

Hi Marilyn, Nope, if you had unsubscribed, it should have worked but guess what, the Lord is more powerful that any unsubscribe request if He still wants you on. It could have been an oversight or mistake of course, but I would rather think that the Lord had a hand in it.

Anyway, glad to see you are still around.


Hello old friends and new. Just wanted to share my heart---I know of an old and white-haired man who was standing fascinated in a picture gallery before a picture of the Christ. After gazing at it a few moments he murmured, as it to himself, with face all aglow, "Bless Him, I love Him." A stranger standing near overheard him, and said, "Brother, I love Him too," and clasped his hand. A third caught the sentence, and said, "I love Him too," and soon there was in front of that picture a little company of people with hand clasped in hand, utter strangers to one another, but made one by their common love to Jesus Christ. A common love to Christ will issue in the clasped hand between man and man and nation and nation. And so, with the noise of strife and the clash of arms in my ears, I yet look forward to the time when strife shall end and wars shall cease, when all the antagonisms and hates that divide and break apart men shall be utterly abolished---when every partition wall shall be broken down, and eve

Love Ya'll,

Well said my dear brother, Looks like we have found the lost tribe of dan.


Hi Jay,

I would think there is such a thing as a period of Spiritually fruitful inertia or inactivity, and it is that that was Elijah's experience by the brook. God directed him to the place where He would feed him and then told him when to move. I daresay Elijah had a few things to rethink while he rested. Laid up recently with a foot injury and unable to walk, I have found God's dealings with me on the inside have been radical. I have passed through badlands as He brought hidden things to my notice. Yet nothing was brought to light without the promise of healing if I would yield.

Certainly that speaks to me at a corporate level: we are to turn ourselves over to God at the Spiritual brook Cherith to be fed watered equipped rested and finally sent.

But the inertia that you speak of regarding the church in the grip of false authority, self-centredness and greed, seems more to me like turning into a Spiritual cul-de-sac, which amounts to turning away from God's dealing with us and settling for something evil that can be made to look good. You may drive around and around in a cul-de-sac, and everyone will know you can drive, but it isn't the same thing as being on the open road.

We have been brought from the vanity of our Gentile minds onto a highway that leads to God. Vanity means emptiness in terms of spiritual yield, and one might see it as a journey from total emptiness, via the highway of Holiness, to complete Holy Spirit fullness and oneness with God and each other.

Troubles we have endured in the church have, like you say, resulted in some of us becoming spiritually unfruitful, and displaying the various neuroses and psychological difficulties you mention. One might say that these are spiritual cul-de-sacs, and where pride was signposted on the way in, so humility is a must to get back out again.

For any kind of healing to begin there has to be some admission of there being a problem a) to yourself, b) to God and c) to to trusted brethren close by. However it is pride and vanity that would cause us to settle for bitterness, evil thinking, self-promotion, self-sufficiency and greed, fiercely defending our right to individuality and refusing to submit to God's truth spoken directly and by the brethren.

Eph 4:15-25. But that you, speaking the truth in love, may in all things grow up to Him who is the Head, even Christ; from whom the whole body, fitted together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of each part, producing the growth of the body to the edifying of itself in love. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should not walk from now on as other nations walk, in the vanity of their mind, having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart. For they, being past feeling, have given themselves up to lust, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and were taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus. For you ought to put off the old man (according to your way of living before) who is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind. And you should put on the new man, who according to God was created in righteousness and true holiness. Therefore putting away lying, let each man speak truth with his neighbor, for we are members of one another.

Without submitting to some Spiritual input I would think it possible to get comfortable with any psychological syndrome, and it is this that produces lukewarmness, familiarity, prosperity projects, circular thinking and an observable lack of spiritual fruit.

This contrasts with the active, yielded, repentant child of God going forward on the highway of holiness. He may trip, he may fall, but he is never utterly cast down. Difficulties arise, but they become victories in Christ. Heat is given off as the Holy Spirit fills and refills. Prosperity seeking falls away in preference to Godliness with contentment, and learning both how to abound and be abased.

But let us not forget also that neuroses and behavioural disorders can arise in Christians who have suffered isolation in their troubles and missed out on any kind of proper nurturing in the family of God. Growth can be retarded in the church environment which is void of love, knowledge, and Holy Spirit power and expertise. These are the ones who we need to win back. I would welcome a discussion alongside this one on healing as we make progress with this Elijah Syndrome subject.

Much love from Mary

Hello, my name is Jody. I want to let everyone know that we are not alone in this. Our Father only needs stand up christians on the "foundation of Faith". Can do christians who work in humility. And our spiritual flavor is SALTY! Our strength to stand is in the truth. The new clay we are made of has to be tried in the furnace slowly. And our spiritual flavor needs to simmer for the best results.

If we didnt question ourselves we wouldn't feel the urgent need that we feel. We would be as the rest of the sheep being lead to the slaughter. Taking what ever was given and never asking, seeking, knocking. I found this site while being in a state of turmoil over what seemed to be happening in my church. I've prayed a lot these last few days, questioned what I seemed to know, Crying out to our Father " But LORD , I am nobody. Why should they listen to me?"

over the last year I've felt all the same things you all have. Wanting to leave my church, dragging myself there on sunday, wondering why I'm there and if I'm supposed to be. When I speak up, people look at me as if I just fell off the proverbial turnip truck. Those that don't look at me as if I'm crazy avoid me as if they might catch the plague. Like you all I felt alone because even the people who saw my true desire was only to speak the truth, looked at me with confusion because they've only been fed with milk.

Long story short, I prayed for confirmation that this was the path I was to take, your stories have done that for me. Through you Our Father answered my prayer.

Jay, and all the rest of you. The scriptures have been written as an example for us to live by. How many of you Identify with Moses? David? etc. There is nothing new under the sun, people don't change, only the environment in which they live. Our Father took the time to write us an instruction manual, then he sent His Son to teach us how to read it.

None of the great people of the bible were perfect, it was through the GRACE OF GOD that they became our examples. He chose them to bring Him Glory, Just as he chose us. We wont have to worry about going astray, as long as we continue to desire that His will be done. And our Fathers will is that none should die in their sins but for them to turn and live. And if He counts me as one of the foolish things of the world that He can use to His glorification. I'm am honored and I pray that I can represent Him to the best of my ability, regardless of the inconvenience to my flesh. Its the least I can do. Yes, my muscles are tired from standing, It tells me I have more work to do. Yes my clay is still soft, But if I rush the firing process, I might skip a step that could cause this vessel to be denied. And If I move outside of Gods will for me, the food that He has spent seasoning with His flavor will not be done. So, I say to all of us, ask, seek , knock. We are never alone as long as we can hear His still ,small voice. He knows what we need, especially when we dont.

Hello Jody,

Nice to meet you. I had to read your letter a few times the last few days just to pick my own self up. Sometimes it is real hard to try to convince others of things like love and unity but when others come and tell us that we are not alone, it is very encouraging. Jesus is the truth and you have reminded to stand in the truth. That strength is not only for us as a Christian group but for the church at large. The world cannot give us that kind of wisdom, it comes from above. Nations will fall and the political positions with their ideologies and wars will fall, but His truth shall stand forever. We can really comfort ourselves with that but more, we need to stand upon the strength because so many of us fall and we need the encouragement of others who can help us.

Like yourself, many have come to the latter rain site with the same state of turmoil over the church. When we actually find out that we are not alone in our thinking and that the Lord has revealed so many of the same things to others, we are a little taken back on it all and can truly reflect on His goodness and grace. Not everyone mind you, many cannot get out of their own or their church's way of thinking and can only come to us in pride and false authority.

The most notable part about your letter is the feeling of loneliness that we feel and in your own words "But Lord, I am nobody, why should they listen to me?" The fact is that we are all nobody without Jesus but with Jesus we become a part of something grand. As individual members in the body of Christ we are really somebody great but only when we stick together as part of Him. Being out on our own and rejecting the rest as if they are not worthy of the same company puts us really alone. We may get together with those of like mind but they are alone too, they just don't know it yet.

Thanks for the nice words about my writings. Just don't trust me too much. As soon as people start trusting in me, I fail them. Remember, in the flesh, I am just like you, a nobody. I frankly admit that God has blessed me but like I mentioned in the newsletter, too many people are tied to His blessings rather than the One who gave the blessings.


Jay, I just want you to know that you all have helped me. And my thanks to "all" was the letter of encouragement. I needed to remind myself as well, so just writing to you all benefited me also. Like you I've been in a slump, maybe we expect more of ourselves than is necessary at the moment. My whole life I desired wisdom and understanding, only to learn that it wouldn't be found in the places I was looking. I wanted to be lazy, it was easier to sit back and listen. But that wasn't what the father planned for me. Now that he has opened up the scriptures for me, it is frustrating, not to mention heart breaking that there aren't many who really desire to understand. I came back to the Father about a year ago. My husband and son started going to church and the one time I went, I heard them announce that they would be fasting and hosting a team of prophets. I started freaking! LOL I grew up hearing about Jim jones- the Bakers- mr. roberts etc. I didn't go to church because I was afraid of being mislead, I had already been in some respects, because although I personally knew that God would teach me the truth, at this point I didn't feel worthy of His attention.

Anyway, I decided that I would pray then for sure and go that day anyway. My prayer was this "they would have to tell me something that I knew", well when I got there I realized that , if our Father wanted to reach me He was going to have to have them tell me something that I didnt know as well, I had very little trust in man, and new that even if the team had wrong motives God would still speak to me through them. The team did tell me something that I knew, and that they couldnt have known, but they didnt tell me something that I didnt know. I was so emotional that at the time I couldnt rationalize what had been said,I had been wanting to move away from the city, and some of what had been said could have lead me to believe that It was Gods will for me. LOL Anyway, as we are leaving the pastors wife comes up to me and says , quite shyly, that she needed to say something to me but didnt want to intterupt THE team, She had two words for me. I thank God for those two words all the time, they are " STAY PUT". I was in shock and tears. I knew then that I was worthy regardless of the path that I had wondered down. As I walked out to my car that afternoon I knew that He had his reasons for making himself so clear, and that all I would have to do is wait and learn. Its been amazing as you seem to know.

The ups and downs of Gods will are so perfect if we allow them to teach us what we are to learn. I don't just trust anyone, My life never allowed such a freedom. So when I sent the first email, It wasnt because I normally do such things. My time in the church that I STILL attend has taught me alot of lessons and that is one of them. I wrote out of hope, hope that a door was being opened to me. I had become so frustrated with my church, I see alot of people hurting and distressed . Knowing that it does'nt have to be that way, I personally know the peace that is offered. And I want them to know it as well. But there is a spirit of authority in my church that doesnt allow the truth to prosper. I would have never picked this church on my own to begin with, yet here I am. And I will stay, till I feel lead to go. But I always have to keep in mind the letter to the churches in the book of revelation. Out of the seven only two are acceptable, the other five have big problems, yet in each one of the five , (I think its all five ) , there are some who overcome. That is the faith in things unseen that I have ,to keep me in our Fathers will. Do you have a place that you need to (STAY PUT) also? If so, I hope this helps you. I finished the page on the ELIJAH syndrome and didnt see anything that set off the alarms except for (D).

And you all handled it very well I must say. SO dont get to frustrated because I think you are doing what you are called to do, If nothing esle our Father ,through your website as his vehicle, is recognizing our needs for relationships that arent distracting yet provide the meat that we need from His word.

This site can serve as the iron with which we are all to be sharpened. As long as it is in His will.


To Jay , Mary and all of the growing list of light-ship-mates - Blessings.

I have not been posting much because I am in the midst of launching a radio network here in Canada. It will be called the Forerunner Radio Network and its mission is to "bring the forerunner's together". When I heard this several years ago from the Lord, I did not have any understanding about what a forerunner was. Since then the Lord has spoken some things which I have posted on my web site if this is of interest to any of you; however to simplify, I can say that a forerunner is concerned with "preparation". Usually that is the work of a prophet. I consider the work of a prophet (in part) to be the exposing of untruth by the proclaiming of truth, and the prophetic prayer and proclamation of the "coming". The "coming" is anything which is on the horizon for the people the prophet is called to serve.

I just returned from a trip to the US where I spent some much needed time on the beaches of Florida. I could not help being completely shocked by the "religious" media while I was there. There was the most blatant and boldest of heresies being preached openly. It was only the exception and the exceptional which brought a recognizable rendering of our Lord. I was shocked not by the fact that there were false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing, (for Paul warned of this) but by the number and of them that flooded the airwaves. I felt angry, I felt sad, I felt hopeless, I felt courage.

I felt many emotions in a progressive coming to resolution about the state of the church in America. It was then that I saw that the Lord had protected the Canadian church by having the government put up such a formidable block to religious media in Canada, and why within the last 3-4 years they have (under the hands of the Lord) licensed more Canadian Christian (TV and Radio) stations then in the previous 30 years. If we would have had an open door policy the American media would have taken over our programming, spewing its distortions here as well - but the Lord has protected us for such a time as this, that there may be among others, a voice which will comfort His people.

By-the-way when the Gospel came to Greece it was made into a philosophy, when it came to Rome it was made in to a way to dominate and rule, when it was brought to Europe it was made into a culture, and when it was brought to America it was made into an enterprize. I think this sums up some of my concerns with the "another Gospel" which is being preached in America.

My wife and I discussed at great length what our approach for the network should be. Should we confront the heresies and distortions or boldly proclaim the truth for those who will listen? We have chosen by the leading of the lord I trust, that we shall by the grace of God proclaim loudly that our Lord is the God of love, not money. He is not a means to means, nor is He a tax gatherer who demands "His cut" like the kings of the nations. He is a lover and a father and not a bit needy (especially for money). He has resources which can not be seen (the cattle on a thousand hills). He has not franchised men to collect His taxes to spend it on their excesses. The great wealth of North America is more than enough to evangelize the world God's way, but it is being squandered by fools. In America and in Europe people are looking for someone who doesn't want something from them and who will love them without condition. Who will reach them with the unconditional love of Christ?

The other area (beside rampant materialism) which I was shocked by, was the massive amount of teaching which was being dumped on the church. If knowing something changed a person, America would be the most heavenly place on earth. Unfortunately, greed, domination, manipulation, and control tacts are MORE common in the church (just disguised as being scriptural) than they are in mainstream society. The teaching syndrome is the tickling of ears, self-indulgent (for the church and the teacher), and a way to extract money from the weak, the immature, and the carnal.

I talked with my friend (an American) about what I had observed as an outsider coming to his country, and although he could see some of it, I detected that there was still much he could not see. He did however respond to statements I made about certain distortions of the Gospel. He and his wife are sincere and mature believers but they are living in an environment which distorts one's orientation. I believe they need an alternative which they can respond to and which will reorient them so they can see the distorts that are all around them - a voice crying out in the wilderness.

Hasn't God always come from the place of humility and weakness? Rarely did Jesus confront heresy openly. He taught the truth and brought to people the love of the Father, which is transforming. LOVE CAN AND WILL CONQUER ALL. Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit, and only under His direction and guidance did He draw a line in the sand and oppose the pharisees to their face. Humility must be our mantle of authority and protection. Without it the religious church can defeat us - they are more powerful than us. This little radio network will be nothing in the site of men. We don't have satellites covering the skies, nor private jets to take us to the next healing crusade. We are small and weak but that is the best way to be, even when confronting false prophets. The Old Testament prophets are not our example of how to confront lies - Jesus is! He is the author, finisher of our faith and our example. He came in humility and weakness and transformed people not with scriptural arguments but with His love. We should do likewise. It is not our job to pull down lies, it is to proclaim truth under the lordship and anointing of the Holy Spirit. Rather than arming ourselves with Scripture and wit, let us arm ourselves with humility, meekness, wisdom, compassion, and most importantly LOVE.

Please pray for the Forerunner Radio Network

Paul Weigel

Dear Group,

I just don't seem to have anything to contribute - the Holy Spirit does not quicken anything for me to write the group. I did write a couple of pieces early on after I subscribed, but they were plowed under very quickly moving on to another subject, with practically no response. I just never seemed to be able to connect with the thinking coming forth, as it seemed to put more emphasis on thought than Spirit. Anyway, I have waited and read the posts for some period of time now, and still nothing of much substance ever connects to my spirit, as being either inspirational or revelatory about Jesus, as I Know Him. There are such depths to Him, His Attributes, His Impartations to us, yet the dialog never seems to touch much on those areas, which are my main interests - Him, Not us. May God Richly Bless You,


Dear Karen, This is the first ever post I have got from you since I joined here and its about unsubscribing. Obviously I did not feel good about it. And sure enough I would not want to see you leave. Again who am I to say anything or what to do. But being a brother in the Lord, I think I have a right to request you to think it over again. I don't know if you have done that seriously before you made this decision. I don't know if you have asked for the Father's guidance and He is leading you to do this. But I still would not believe that our Father would ask you to go away from us. I still don't believe our Father would want to break such a great family we have over here.

Karen don't feel bad about not being able to contribute to the group. I think the Holy Spirit has done His job by bringing you to here. I don't think it happened by any chance but God had a plan for you. As for writing goes I don't usually have anything profound to say either. But what I do is just share my heart. You don't have to have exceptional stuff to contribute. But just BE YOURSELF and share your heart. I do the same thing. I just write whatever is in my heart knowing that people hear read it and respond as they have time. Its family here. What you do with your family? You share whets inside you. So please just do that. Its okay if you have any spiritual insights if not just be yourself and let us know what's going on. We all do care about you, karen. And you have mentioned about getting no response. It might have happened that people here might have been too busy that time. Or sometimes even when you read it you wont have anything to say. It does not mean that people here do not care. Everybody here is loving and caring Karen. That's what I feel See this is just that what I am doing right now. I am sharing my heart. I am telling you about people here and how I feel about you. Its that simple. I write here as I feel. No pretense but a genuine feelings from my heart. I don't know what else to tell you.

I think we should get to know more. Have you read my testimony by any chance?
Its somewhere in the past messages. It gives you a little idea about who I am.
Its a bit long though.
I think I will stop here.
U take care and keep in touch...
Hopefully the Father will give you a right direction. Dont make a hasty decision. And above all we all love you here.
Last but not the least, wherever you may be will you please join with me to pray for Christian Unity and to those who are lost..

By His Grace,

i was sorry to hear about Karen leaving the group. Even though i never saw any posts from her since i began posting a short while ago, it is always a sad thing when someone leaves a group like this one that has so much genuine love and caring, so freely and generously given. Montou's post struck a chord deep in my heart, few folks could have expressed their feelings any better than he did. And yet i know many on the lightship feel very much the same. What Montou said is a common denominator that is at the very core of this group as we all speak our heart's in our own individual ways and seek only to edify and live by the gospel of our Lord Jesus as He lived and taught it through example.

i cannot speak for any one else's spirit, but i can speak out what has been spoken to my spirit. That being none of us will ever know for sure exactly (in this present world) what contributions we have made in any single or group encounter, be it via letter, email or face to face. But if we separate ourselves and go our separate ways, no further contribution can be made at all. What we must always keep in focus is God and Christ are keeping accounts of our righteous contributions, not ourselves nor any group or church. To Karen i would have to say, yes by all means follow the Holy Spirit as He leads you from place to place, but don't forget to revisit those of your brother's and sister's who miss your presence and pray for your well being and continued maturation in Christ. This particular lesson has been recently manifested in my walk. And i was helped greatly in recognizing and acting upon the opportunity to mature in my relationship with Christ by the letters and fellowship of this very group. Sadly, my heart cries out that Karen apparently, for whatever reason has not benefited as greatly as i by the fellowship that is offered here by this group of dedicated, growing and Christ seeking brothers and sisters.

Got to go for now, will talk more later, love all my brothers and sisters and i thank you all for the love you have shown me and all contributions, seen or unseen made in the name of our Mighty Lord Jesus. Amen

Couldn't agree with you more Jan but maybe I can add to it a little bit. Here is one that left the fellowship because the Holy Spirit did not quicken her to write. That is true and she is honest enough as far as it goes but then resentment is given for the real reason, we were not responsive enough to her. I frankly liked what she had to post whether I responded or not but we were not able to stir up her gifts. Since I have the Elijah syndrome on my mind right now as to loneliness and isolation, this is a good example. If we had known her feelings earlier, we would have shown enough love to her to be concerned and try to give her some comfort and encouragement but whatever the reasons were, she didn't share. Since she was disappointed, she chose to withdraw for a time and then separate. I am really glad Montou is here to keep us reminded of the importance of unity in all this. Sometimes we become more of a fellowship as a small talk forum and sounding board than the real reason of getting together for God's glory in becoming all we can be for Him.

There is always a fear of acceptance when we join something new. If we cannot trust each other, we are not able to share effectively what is bothering us. I hope that when we feel isolated or alone or ignored or whatever bothers us, that we speak up and not let it fester into resentment and alienation. We need to remember Jesus in all this, none of us are perfect but as we include Him more, we become more perfect. That takes prayer before we post and not thinking so highly of ourselves that we credit the Holy Spirit as our guide in all that we do when so much is in the flesh.


more love, i think, would penitrate all if said correctly. words are harsh, and the feeling i have recieved from just reading this is that the world makes us feel condemed and words cut like a knife. but using it in the name of christ is wrong. speaking the bible does'nt make all feel better of there walk. they need the compasion...

what ever happend to... "please don't go... I'm sorry if i hurt your feelings, I really want to get to know you...i don't know how to talk sometimes with people who don't talk like me,,, harsh and all, i did'nt mean it that way". coming from hearing that alot, like, claiming wanting "unity" and all, is great, but i have never been around anyone who wont turn down and honest appology. just letting them go, in the name of Christ, and "we'll pray for you" is not enough anymore.

I hate to say this but Jay is the same way.. all i have to do is read his stuff, intelectually is great, bible verses is great because they are the sword of the spirit, but all the time????? how do you relate to anyone else out of your circle?

well, my husband and i are moving back to new mexico.. we are already burned out. feeling alone with all the stuff that has happended to us since we have moved here, well it's overwelming.. i don't have any close friends, and neither does my husband, and we feel alone, and oh, neither does my daughter, and we have gone to the prayer meetings, and church, but they don't know how to reach out to us..... i choose a "believer" instead of "christian" any day because the ones who we have met, are too "annoiting junkies" for us too deal with.. i can keep up, but living in this world, well is just more than that...

i dont know what we will be doing, but we want out of here.. we thought we were told by God to stay here, but too many things right now....and we cant handle them alone. i will not sign off yet, because i still need to read a few things that are said, but not all are for me....

yea unity is great, but the "christians" are going to have to get beyond the beliving part, quoting part all the time, and just have a normal conversation. people are wanting to be validated, and wanted and included now matter what... rejection i have found is just a normal in the church body than out of it, and it sucks most of the time. a cridical person is always around, and with the knowlege of this kind of group, well it's very intidating to alot.

oh well, i'll be waiting for the slams.....

Greetings sister,

You make alot of great points in your letter. And I for one would like to apologize. It breaks my heart to read the words you wrote. The pain and loneliness appear to be overwhelming you. What has happened?

I understand some of the things you have stated being new to the group also. I have been here almost 2 weeks and for awhile I could not seem to get anywhere. I was going to unsubscribe but I felt to wait a little longer. Then I read Montou's testimony and wrote to him personally. Next thing I knew I was on the phone with him and let me tell you, I could feel nothing but love in this brothers heart. Since then the Lord has showed me a different way to interject into the group so that now I feel the Christ centeredness that is here for me.

I am not trying to project that what worked for me will work for you but I say give it a whirl. So I am offering you a believers ear and shoulder if you feel you would like to talk, whether it be about God ,your family or just why it won't stop raining.

a friend,

thanks so much for your note. I have'nt been new to the group, but i have not been here as long as the others, maybe a few months or so. i really can't say what has happened, maybe a realization of certian groups of people, not just on this site, and not all either, but the ones i've met since we have moved here. I was under the illusion that christians are supposed to be the most loving, and encouraging people on the planet. I mean I figure if the carasmatics that I know, act like they are so in touch with the Lord and so filled, they must have so much of Him to pour out on me... I've also heard that we are only human, like they say, "well pastors are just people just like us". ya know? are we only to have compation to the "lost" while we are feeding the poor and downtrought? bull..... not just them. I'm really hurt and I just want to go home. not just heaven, but new mexico. I need some time to heal before I jump into ministry again. I have been exposed to I think every under the sun since I came here, don't think I was ready. I have prayed, rebuked, reached out, shook, prophesied, cried, cried, cried, and mostly, it was crying out of church, about church, and I'm not ready. I've heard His voice, twice, woke up in the middle of the nite with His "love pouring on me", twice, had an open vision once, and I'm not your typical christian women either, and I'm just tired of the whole mess.

Thanks for listening,


You make a lot of sense. Been there and done that. My mind got all messed up with the Charismatic movement too. Lot of things going on I didn't understand and felt guilty when I sensed in my heart that much of it was human ego, very little the actual movement of the Spirit. I like the message that Mary forwarded from Paul Weigal, the fellow who is starting up a radio station. He really made sense to me too. He touches on this matter.

Only you and your husband know what is in your highest good, and how the Spirit is leading you. I believe with all my heart that will know and His guidance. But I want you to know I feel sad that you have had such a rough time of it and you are disheartened. For that I pray. I pray for that peace that surpasses understanding to envelop your heart and your mind over this matter, and in the stillness that you will receive a word of encouragement and direction from our Lord Himself. That's the thing that always gets me through my doubts and discouragements, a word directly from the Lord, usually a scripture, in the quietness of my heart. In Jesus' name, dear one may it come to you.

Your sister in Jesus,

Krissy, I have been unable to sleep because of your post, and you were the first person on my mind when I woke up this morning early. I have been trying to think of a way of saying what I need to say to you that you can accept. In the end I will just have to say it or I won't be able to rest. I went and looked at the archives to remind myself of how we met. Can you remember what happened? I am glad I looked because it showed me a little more of what you are going through. I felt that we had begun some real fellowship and proper Christian interaction when we got through one or two problems back then, and I think it was wonderful how everyone expressed love to you and prayed for you.

You left for a while when Neo was on the scene, and I felt a little hurt, but it seemed at the time I was just to let go and get on with things here. When you showed up again I was afraid how to approach you, and I still am now a bit, we have had a little conversation to reaffirm we are still basically fine, but how to get back what was lost is escaping me just now. I can hear you crying out Krissy and yet I can't seem to find anything in me that will help you because you have to receive it, and I don't know if you are willing. You are very thirsty for fellowship but at the same time as crying out for us to hold you, you are also pushing us away with criticism direct and indirect. Now you are at the point of leaving again and no further forward with your own needs.

I think what you have to do is stop thinking that it is all about you. Get to know us properly and you will find we all have things we are dealing with privately that are hard going. We all need fellowship and love and acceptance and someone to pour in the kind words. Luke 6:38 is this:

Jesus says..."Give, and it shall be given unto you;good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again" I think that works as a divine principal. You have such a lot to offer us, such a lot you could give and we are needy too. If you could find yourself able to enter into fellowship again in this kind of way I think you would find your place in ministry, and that would satisfy you more than anything and make you feel fulfilled.

But if you come with criticism and expecting rejection it is only a matter of time until you will move on again, and be hurt again, and around and around it goes.

When you start serving us we will find out what you can do through the Lord at work in you. Personally I am excited at that prospect. You gotta reach forward.

Hoping for the best....
Love, Mary

I have read the emails - offense, rejection are words that seem to be coming up a lot - I do not know all that has gone on, but I have studied on offense - The book I studied was called "The Bait of Satan" by John Bevere - I had never studied anything from him before but this book hit home for me - I used to always feel rejected - which of course became an offense to me - I took everything personal and always seemed to be on the defense - but since I truly started allowing God to work in my life and He has given me much insight on many of little strongholds and then one by one releasing them to Him I can honestly say that He has taken started taking down the walls brick by brick. I can be free from those things that cause me to be offended. We are not to be offended as His people - and we don't have to be.

Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
In His love


Hello old friends and new. Just wanted to share my heart---I know of an old and white-haired man who was standing fascinated in a picture gallery before a picture of the Christ. After gazing at it a few moments he murmured, as it to himself, with face all aglow, "Bless Him, I love Him." A stranger standing near overheard him, and said, "Brother, I love Him too," and clasped his hand. A third caught the sentence, and said, "I love Him too," and soon there was in front of that picture a little company of people with hand clasped in hand, utter strangers to one another, but made one by their common love to Jesus Christ. A common love to Christ will issue in the clasped hand between man and man and nation and nation. And so, with the noise of strife and the clash of arms in my ears, I yet look forward to the time when strife shall end and wars shall cease, when all the antagonisims and hates that divide and break apart men shall be utterly abolished---when every partition wall shall be broken down, and every separating chasm shall be filled up. When shall that happy time come? It shall come, as the prophet says, 'when the knowledge of the Lord has covered the earth as the waters cover the sea.' The Christ who reconciled Matthew and Simon can reconcile any one and every one, so that there shall be neither Jew nor Greek, neither bond nor free, but all shall be one man in Christ Jesus.

Love Ya'll,

Hi Jay,

You are not alone. Your Father loves you. We all love you. And with me probably being the newest person here..I want you to know that I personally look forward to what the Christ in you has for me each day. According to what you are feeling you may be the least..but He who is least shall be the Greatest!! Amen!

Remember what the Lord said..
1 Corith 1:29. That no flesh should glory in his presence. So if there were
no thank yous the Lord must have been there.
And John 14:15. If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The commandments also include what the Spirit leads you to do. When we go against the Spirit we go against a commandment that was given us. In the old testament they tried to follow the letter of the law and missed the spiritual side. Christ Jesus explained this when he said in Mathew 5:27. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28. But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. He showed the natural and the spiritual.

Know that in all the Word it is "First the natural and then the Spiritual" Of course it's easier said than done but we have to fight off the powers of darkness no matter what form they come in. We need to constantly remind ourselves of what is written in the Word. That is how Christ fought the temptations and that is how we must also fight. When the serpent came to Eve it was "Hath God said?" But when we answer "It is written.." then there can be no deceit.

I love you brother and so does your God...I know this..that is why you are still with the Lord..He called you out before the foundation of the world He called your name..and even though the road behind you has been rough we must continue to fight the good fight. We must not lean upon our own understanding. And lastly 1 Corinth 2:14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him..."

Paul H.

Hey Krissy and All,

How you all doing?
I dont know if that's the complete message or part of it. The message seems to have been truncated. But anyways I think I got you, Krissy what are you trying to get at.

Krissy I really do feel you and what you have gone through. I am feel bad for the situation you are going through. I never knew until this message what was really happening with you. I am doing great and I tend to take it for granted.
Does the posting from Jonno help you in anyways? Could you relate it to yourself? I am not a great theologian. I dont know much of the history but I try to keep it "simple". Love the Lord and one another. This really mean a lot to me and I try to live that way.
I also came here for true fellowship. Wanting to know people and love and be loved. And I have found that here. I think this is an awesome fellowship. I feel people here care about you and love you. Its like a "home" to me here. I have fellow brothers and "auntie(s)" here. I think it also depends on how much you are giving. It depends on how much you are opening up and willing to love another. The more you give the more you get. The more you love the more you will be loved. I understand when you said, "and just have a normal conversation."
Thats just what I want too. I want to be able to talk freely sharing my heart. And I have done that with some of us here. It was great.

I am not that into intellectual stuff but more into getting to know a person and being able to carry each other's burden and loving one another as our Father wants it. Why do you think I give all my contact addresses everywhere I visit in the internet? Why I am so into wanting people to read my testimony? Simply cause I want them to know me and I want the same from them. Why I am wanting so much to CHAT...and more priority for a phone call...I have been wanting that and have not worked out for all of us... But slowly its happening...

Krissy we never got to talk really before. The first time we wrote to each other was when you first enquired about Scottsbluff, Nebraska. It was just recently. And I was very happy to hear from you. So I tried to give as much information about Scottsbluff as I could. I tried to locate it to the best of my ability. I then again sent you an email and asked you if you wanted to read my testimony. I dont know if you were really burned out by then or was going through some personal things and was fed up with this list. But I did not got any personal "vibes" from you. I dont know what you were going through at that time.
I dont know what else to tell?

Krissy, dont take this personally and I am not directing towards you. But I feel if we come here with a positive and loving attitude we will be just FINE. Its how we are that we tend to see in other people too. If we are full of love then we will see the same in other person as well. Its all depends on us. It all depends on what level we want to take our relationship. If we are filled with the spirit and the fruits are within us , we will see the SAME in others as well.
I dont understand why people get offended by minor things and get "sidetracked" so easily. Why we LOSE our focus so easily? We say we love the Lord but why we cannot live it?

And, Krissy when I talk about UNITY , I do mean it from my heart. That is what the Lord has given me , HEART for Unity. I am talking about Absolute Unity. I dont want to talk anymore on that. We all know action speaks louder than words. Let the time tell.

I think I will stop here.

Anyways, bottom line is we do have a great fellowship here. Krissy I hope you have not left yet. We still have time. Its not late yet as long as you are here. Please consider it. Everybody here wants the BEST for you. We all want to help you. We wont know about you unless you tell us. I promise I will listen to you.

Love You All....
Please continue to pray for Christian Unity and to those who are lost...
By His Grace,

I hear the Jesus in you Montou. I hear the grace and humility and above all the love that will soon bring us to the unity that you desire. I don't know if it can be all of us, so far it hasn't but when you talk about the fellowship and giving and opening up, I hear the Lord loud and clear. "The more you love the more you will be loved."

I hear these things from others in the group and have for a long time. I also hear resentment and anger and hurtfulness and pride; this is what hurts. Although it hurts, I am sometimes relieved when they go since Jesus is coming back for a perfect Bride, not a contentious one. There are certain people that I need to pray for more than others and it hurts a lot when they get so easily offended and lash out at others so much. A message of love and humility seems to have no effect on people who can't receive instruction or look within themselves and see Jesus. Should I be all loving and encouraging and pretend that things are OK in these situations? Sure, I want to empathize but because of what I have been called to do, I can only look and use these situations as fodder for bad examples in my writings to instruct others and bring them to maturity like I am supposed to be doing.

Since we are on the subject of the Elijah Syndrome, at least in my own case, I recognize when the Lord sends certain people my way as examples. God has always spoken to me through other people, if not directly. I find it easy sometimes to bend my ear and listen to others, for right or wrong. I hear the feelings of loneliness right now that many in the body of Christ have sometimes. I hear the same things, thinking that a person is the only one confronted with certain things, no one but the Lord understands, we have no friends. This is definitely the Elijah Syndrome but prayer for them is not always enough. These people have to look within themselves and stop condemning others. Either Jesus is there and loving through them or He is not. Take the beam out of your eye.

I have been given visions of real hard times ahead and others want me to be all happy and not take things so serious? The church is in a big mess and I will not take my role in Christ lightly. I wish it were different but I don't want to be any different than the way that I am if this is the way that the Lord made me to be. I will have to look to the future when all the cares of this world is taken off of me because I have an awful burden to bear. I wish it were not so but that is the way it is.

I think it is just great to have fellowship and small talk and speak of family and friends and ask for prayer. I go to church and fellowship, I enjoy testimonies and hearing of their lives. When I first started there, I could see that they didn't trust me and it was hard to make friends. I have been at the point in the past where I felt that there was no church that would want me but I had to change. I could go all year looking for a friend and never find one but if I went out being a friend, I found hundreds. I am taking the Christian life real seriously though, I find it real difficult to smile most of the time and it turns people off. I read everyone's post and answer when I can but it has to be something substantial for me to give up my ministry and act like nothing is going on in the world today but joy and peace and praise and worship. We lose people on this list because of all the small talk and personal messages and comments and amens that everyone has to read when they come here for meat, wisdom and instruction. Those things are all good but for me, I must stay focused.

Sorry if I offend. It wasn't intentional.


Hey Krissey

May the Lord Bless you and lift your spirit from the place it currently is, i also would like to apologize for not spending the time getting to know you on this sight i at times have suffered similar things from various christians both growing up in the church and later on after i became a lost sheep and wandered back to the Lord through it all i have had to realize one thing, God is not christians or church, God loves me for who i am and loves me enough that he sent his son to die for me, with patience and time the Lord has placed a few well chosen brothers and sisters in christ across my way well chosen i say as they have been the people he uses to rub the hard edges off me as have had to learn to give of myself and also learnt to let a lot of things slide for the sake of keeping the peace, "love covers a multitude of sins"

Paul also says somewhere in the NT "first in the natural then in the spiritual" as we learn to submit to each other in christ God can also begin to move in us as we also submit to him, He is our strength, our fortress, our Father, as we abide in him and let him deal with our internal "walls" nothing in the world will be able to touch us as we are totally surrounded by Gods love, this all unfortunately takes time and in the present probably isnt much comfort Krissie, i would dearly love to help ease the burdens of rejection you guys are suffering, im in australia but if there is anything apart from praying (ill do that anyhow) that i can do let me know may Gods Peace and Grace rest upon you, your husband and daughter, yours in Christ


Hi Jay,

I don't feel it is enough for me to pray, I want to encourage you with everything God has given me, so that is why it is coming here.

You know I feel that burden about the church. If it were not for your pointing out to me about my being an intercessor, I would not have known that the sorrow and sensations and pain was something that needed to be acted upon in prayer - I thought I was just miserable because of what had happened to me. But in your ministry you helped me understand what the Lord was doing with me.

Lately I am feeling the most interesting pulling sensations in my womb, pardon the biology, I thought it was your sorrow maybe I was picking up praying for you, maybe it was, either way if it is God's pain it is your pain too, and then it must be mine. I am going where the Lord leads with it.

I have been grateful of your instruction and unwavering commitment to God. Sometimes in the beginning I did not want to hear what you had to say to me, and fought with myelf that you might know better than I. I am sorry Jay for those times because it always turned out you had it right, and it was me putting myself up there in pride. I hope I have learned better now.

Now then it was also you who God chose to show me about being prophetic, and to teach me about the dangers again of believing we have something that puts us up above anyone else. I truly had no idea that was the case with me when I first met you, a victim of false teaching, which was another thing you put right for me. So here i am with these great things that suddenly make sense of who I am in Jesus and how I can serve Him. You know I love Him so much and want to just do the best I can and give Him everything I've got 100% and more. That turns people off around me. Not so you.

But there is something God gave me that I knew about before I met you. So maybe this is where I can finally minister to you and lift you up and give you something to surprise you. I am going to try anyway because I love you like I am supposed to.

God gave me worship. I know it is from Him because of the dire circumstances I find myself in naturally not making any difference to what happens in my insides and then overflows. It is heavenly joy not dependant on the things I know are so bad, the things that are in my mind about the way things are.

It is a unity of the Spirit in would think that unnecessary in one human being but it isn't, that is why we are all over the place upsetting each other and creating misunderstandings, not knowing unity in the Spirit personally we can't demonstrate it practically in the body.

I know now what the labels are because you taught me, but God was bringing all of His gifts together in me in worship. And worship is pure heavenly joy. Not the music, but sometimes that. But the being who we are in Christ and doing it with everything we have got.

If you can't give yourself joy about yourself, no matter, you certainly give it to me. I praise God for you ALL THE TIME, maybe that might make you happy.

This morning, as has happened on other occasions but I never told you, feeling you were maybe low, when I took my guitar and began to worship in song, praying and declaring, I sung as though you were with me, and I sung in the "we" and not the "I".

"Oh my God, be mindful of US, you are our help and OUR redeemer,
Unto you Oh Lord, we lift up our soul,
In your lovingkindness we believe
Surely those who wait on you will never be ashamed
All those who call on you will know the faithfulness of your Name
....and so on, whatever came into my mind and heart to sing.

Not only is there power in worship but unity and all good things in the Holy Spirit. I think it is in worship that we overcome the world which has got right into the church.

I do not want you to be happy when everything is miserable around in the church, no no no....oh my, but can you see how HAPPY it makes me that you are miserable for the church? Because our love joy peace is in the Holy Ghost and I am so glad you feel so deeply this way. I can't tell you how happy I am in the Spirit that you are who you are in Jesus, giving it all you've got.

We are six thousand miles apart or something like. A small thing to God. Every time I close my eyes to worship the Lord in song, I am alongside you, lifting you up to the Lord. I pray most earnestly that you will be refreshed.

Much love from Mary XXX

Hi Mary,

I want to be happy all the time but I realize that things will have to be better for that to happen this side of heaven. I have victories and I have wonderful people like you around to remind me of them, that gives me joy for sure. My whole ministry seems to be to unite what divides us but the only way I know how to do that is to bring up things that offend. People that are polarized and do not truly walk in the spirit have had false thinking govern how they react to others. It is not about me, it is about Jesus. When I tell prideful people that, it comes back at me with offense and resentment and the only way that they can deal with it is to try to get back at me and hurt me through their words.

The ones that hurt me most are the ones that I have trusted and love but I get over it. I told you to get over it once on something or another and I felt in my spirit that I hurt you. It is never my intention to hurt but harsh words sometimes do not have the desired effect. For you it did, you took it in love, you did not lash back at me or side with others against me and by what you said here, you learned from it. Many times I have wished that I did not say what I said or that I had said it better or not at all. I am very rash and forge ahead where angels fear to tread and that steps on toes on the way. I can easily confront false doctrine with the confidence that I have because it is so easy to identify for me. If it divides, something is wrong, if people get hurt, something is wrong, if it elevates people above other people, it is wrong.

We need that solemn assembly but to do that we need to pray and sanctify the congregation. All these carnal Christians out there thinking that they are sanctified, it is another delusion. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost comes through repentance, there is no other way. The signs may follow the gift but it comes with holiness first, not this false authority, contention, divisiveness, alienation, offense and hurtfulness. When we start decreasing as a unified body and Jesus gets the increase, then we can lift Him up like we are supposed to and sing a new song.

Thanks for being who you are Mary.


Good Morning,

okay, i hear you when you say, (just like others i know), that when they talk about,,,,,, oh the Lord has shown me a glimpse of what's in the future and it's so bad and it's a burden for me but i have to bear people that are feeling rejected like me and my family? it's like a big secret, and it feels like a kinda false humility or something sick like that. People are hurting out there jay, saved, not saved... filled not filled you get the picture, but they still suffer. and for some, like me, it will take people like you or me bouncing around meeting all sorts of people but not getting anything from them. it's not enough to have Jesus on my mind 24 7, it will blind me to everyone else... that's what happens to me when people i know just really don't know what to do and they say, look to the Lord..... well we are his mouth piece, (heaven help us), but i have to get used to the idea that, i can't remember who said it hear but it went like this.... God is not christian, a church..... He is nothing like I have experienced, yet and throughout my journey to that Love, I have come across it only 2 times in my life where I have actually sensed the presece of the Lord in people, meaning, they did'nt have to say a thing. Only heaven knows and sees what my problem is. All i'm saying is that yes i'll admit this to you and all who are reading it is that rejection and feeling used is probably at work here, and i'm having a really hard time dealing with that. being distracted alot has also been a problem with me, sometimes I feel like i'm on this all by myself, which sometimes it is. please pray for me i need it, i told myself that i won't interject in other peoples conversations anymore, that's like interupting others and that is rude in itself. thank you for your response i hope you understand where i'm coming from. maybe if the Lord showed me more besides a huge tidle wave coming to a shore, maybe if it was more terror, i would act different, but i dought it, i would grab onto everyone that came around me.


Hi Krissy,

There is some real progress here and I can see the lord at work in you. You are not alone, you have friends, don't cast them away because you don't feel the same way that others do. God has made you a unique person, He has a life for you that you are only starting to understand and it doesn't have to be the same as others. Take comfort in that and take comfort in those around you that love you and are praying for you. All of our unique gifts should all be working together for the same goal, to lift up Jesus and give God the glory. The isolation that many people feel is that they are an island amidst a sea of confusion and it is lonely out there. Again, you are not alone.


Krissy, where are you in the tidal wave scene? I have had a similar vision, and I think it might give me a clue where you are needing prayer. Also when you say grab onto everyone around you, do you mean to save them or to save yourself?

Anything you can tell me about it would help. I have been praying for you this morning and just felt I was to understand what you were saying better.

Love, Mary

Hi mary,

well there was this tidle wave coming toward the shore and a person with arms stretched up as in worship and it was coming toward this person.

I'll tell you this one this and see if it makes any sense. we went to this conference a ccouple of weekends ago, and went into a prophecy tract, and got a prophecy on tape, you know the people came by as you were in a group, grabed the tape recorder (they taped the prophecy for you so you could take it with you), and the same couple came by and prayed for us twice, but the first time, the husband said," now this may seem kind of weird, but her it goes... there is a person standing on the beach or shore, and a huge tidle wave is coming toward the person kinda like a Tsunami......." I also had a dream last nite I want to share too. all of a suddend as i was walking around, and i don't know where i was, but i was on the phone.... my toes and fingers were slowly going back in and dissapering???...... i told the person on the phone, what was happening to me and it was a she,,, she said to start praising the Lord and see what happens.. i started making up a song, and sure enough, slowly everything started growing back..

Thank you for your prayers Mary I know I have had a really bad attitude dealing with things latley, but that's I guess what happens when people wear masks for a long time too.. i learned alot for a while, or I should say, I have been shown things for a while now, and i should've have learned something by now, but I've also learned that Pride, deffensivness, and getting my feelings hurt, all come from not getting over being rejected, and all those kinds of things, holding things in, and trying to measure up, trying to walk this walk and it is not hard just beliving in the Lord Jesus yourself, but then you hear that you should be sharing Jesus and "snatching others from the fire", hearing and doing is really hard for me because of my personality, I am hard hitting, kinda like it's simple, if i can belive it and do why can't you? that is stupid for me too think that because not everyone is the same and not all believers are going to be the same. I will heal in time and not overnite, God's in control anyway, but I've tried to rush things in my life, and I just have to hang loose.

I'm also going a regret stage.. I have gained 50 lbs. since 1997 in which I was going to Lackland AFB for Fuel Cell Technician School. I was inactive for a while since we moved here, but when I get back to NM, in fact I really need prayer for this, I need to lose this weight, and I will be trying to get back in. this is a passion for me, my husband had a problem with me in, and it seems like i fold easily.. i hate that, i feel like "double minded", it's stupid, but i do it for others... anyway, what a mouthfull, but i need help and I have to understand that because i have'nt you here with me, i'll just have to learn how to have a friendship over the net, which is also new to me...

thank you so much Mary,

Phew Krissy, I thought we had lost you there for a minute. Thanks for sending this in, we have a lot of things we can pray for now.

Hang in there Krissy. If it is any use I spent a while after i was abused and pushed out of fellowship, long time ago now, that I was so fearful of everyone and everything. Like as if God allowed the worst thing to happen to me, so what else is coming my way? I walked about in fear of what was around the corner. Actually I think maybe I was not thinking right at all.

There are still some signs in me of insecure behaviour, like I am so afraid of losing the ones I love still that I say and do things I know I wouldn't if I felt secure. But that isn't everyone else's problem or responsibility, ultimately I have to let the Lord heal me, which I know He is doing. And these days I have precious ones the Lord has sent my way, and they seem not to give up on me which helps.

You are right it does take time. But keep praying. Really keep hammering away, because the blessings when they start will come back in the same magnitude as you sent out the prayers, greater even. Maybe that is the tidal wave? Hope so.

Love, Mary

Rom. 8:37.---' We are more than conquerors through him that loved us.'
'More than conquerors' is an expressive phrase. It means we are super-conquerors, not ordinary conquerors, through Him that loved us.

We are not ordinary conquerors, because our victories through Him that loved us are always worth the cost. There is often a doubt, is there not, whether some victories are worth the price paid for them, victories in war, some victories in peace? At the end of a modern war, victors and vanquished alike are exhausted: the whole world is unsettled; trade, by which the victor must live, is disorganized; millions of the best citizens, not of one side only but of both sides, victors and vanquished, suffer loss. The price paid for victory in war is a long, long price, paid in part by the victor's children, and his children's children. An entirely justifiable question is---"If that is so, where did the victory come in?"

Is it not also quite frequently the case that a man gives himself up to carving out a successful career and nothing must stand in his way? He wins power, possessions, and glory; he is a great success; he is a great victor. The newspapers say so, his obituary notice says so, drawing attention to all his victories. But one sometimes wonders whether, far from being a victor, he is not one of the vanquished, his victories having cost him too much. The price may be his health---not that that is too much; it may be his home, and his friendships, and these are a good deal; it may be his peace of mind, and that is a terrible price; it may be his soul, and that is everything. He is a conqueror, but he is an ordinary conqueror. 'We are more than conquerors through him that loved us.' The victories we win because Christ loved us and because His love inspires us and sustains us are not such victories as these. They are victories that bring no regrets; they add no burdens; they never mean that we have sacrificed things of greater worth for things of less; they are always real victories and never camouflaged defeats. These victories are pure gain, not only for those who win them but for every one else.

We are more than ordinary conquerors also because our victories through Him that loved us are over our real foes. The victories which the world holds as its greatest victories, and will continue to hold as its greatest victories until it learns wisdom, are victories over men, with wives and children to worry about them when they are in the fighting-line, and to mourn for them bitterly when they are dead. These other victories, in peace, to which we have referred, so often mean, do they not, the remorseless trampling of competitors underfoot? Who are competitors but men with wives and children, mad sad by the same sorrows, and glad by the same joys, as all their fellows? Peace has its victories no less ordinary than war. They are victories over men.

But men are not men's real enemies. Our real enemies are within ourselves, our selfishnesses, our weaknesses, our jealousies, especially our fears. Fears of what? Fears of life and of death, of things present and of things to come; fears of deception and criticism, fears about our own sufficiency for the responsibilities and duties of life; fears to commit ourselves to the highest vision we have seen. Paul gives a fairly comprehensive list of these things that men fear: Tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, sword, angels, principalities, powers, things present, things to come, height and depth. It is over these that 'We are more than conquerors through him that loved us.'

The world has plenty of ordinary conquerors whom it acknowledges and acclaims, conquerors whose conquests cost far too much, conquerors over men, who leave men's real foes unvanquished and undiminished. There is need for another word for the men and women whom no one acknowledges, whom no one ever recognizes as having won victories at all. What shall we call those who are bearing burdens cheerfully, who are making great sacrifices for others, who are resisting the temptations which so easily beset them, who are fighting fears in their own hearts? Paul's name for them is 'More than conquerors.' He means that there is more of the stuff of conqueror in them than in ordinary conquerors.

It was Paul who said, 'More than conquerors,' and he knew what conquerors were. He was a Roman citizen. He saw the Roman victors as they went riding in their chariots through the streets; they belonged to a conquering race. Paul knew them, knowing well that he might be arraigned before their governors. But Paul had to visit obscure corners of Rome and Antioch and Ephesus to find those who were 'More than conquerors.' There he saw men and women who were fighting against the old lusts, the pagan superstitions, who were indeed fighting a universe full, as they believed, of devils, angels, principalities, and powers. They were slaves and poor folk generally, but in the sight of God they were conquerors in a truer sense than those who despised them.

It was Paul who said, 'We are more than conquerors.' He was himself only a wandering preacher, not very strong, not of commanding presence, not very eloquent, seeking his precarious lodging from place to place, sometimes lodged in prison, sometimes thrown out of doors to be stoned and left for dead. No one thought of him as a conqueror in an Empire full of the pride of conquest. Yet does not history say he was, in his generation, the greatest conqueror of them all?

God recognizes and acclaims, not the ordinary conquerors, but those who are more than ordinary. Make no mistake about it. Men acclaim the ordinary conquerors, but not God. It is only as a man or woman wins a clearer, stronger, more Christ-like spirit that God will recognize in him or her one who is more than a conqueror.

In Christ, timothy.

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