The Manifest Sons and Babylon

August 13, 2000

The idea that we are the Manifest Sons is considered foolishness to those that are not led by the spirit of God. Those of us that are included in what is described as "we" come from all walks of life, all branches of the Christian church, all levels of maturity and giftedness coming together as one to form the last day army of God. Firm direction and a narrow focus is necessary to be included in this heavenly congregation according to the spirit of God, not the spirit of man or the delusions, exclusiveness and false doctrines of denominations. Restoration in these last days include restoring the power and simplicity of the early church, building upon what God has taught us in the last 6000 years and scripturally rebuilding the temple of God. We are not rebuilding the physical temple that some are waiting for but the "temple made without hands." The building materials that we are using for the temple of the New Jerusalem come down from heaven, not from the earth.

The counterpart to the manifest sons is Babylon herself, it will be those that have been caught up in this confusion that will do what they can to hinder the restorative work and come against those that have been called to it. With God's help, we have discussed much this year of the false practices that we must separate from. We have discussed the Nicolaitan spirit as being the separation of clergy and laity. We recognized that laying on of hands is a foundational doctrine and is used as a plumb line to identify those with and without the power. We have identified the oneness doctrine as heretical and hateful and affirmed the trinity. We understand that no one particular gift can identify the true church unless it is love. With that we can include the doctrines that classical Pentecostals have concerning tongues as the only evidence of the Holy Ghost as being schismatic. We can also include in that, the idea that the evangelical gift to the exclusion of others is false. Not only is the religious confusion and ignorance identified in Babylon but those under the political and economic right wing insanity that elevates nationalism, the law and order police state and the luke-warm materialism of the One World Order above God's righteousness. There has been a call to flee from Babylon and many of us have but the time is short. Soon there will be a time where it will be too late to get out and many in the church will be caught up in the fall.

We have discussed good things, true things, things that have been given to us by inclining our ears to what the spirit is saying to the churches. Now listen to what "We" are saying. Below are more good things. We must understand that to be part of the Bride of Christ and the harvest is to go through sifting and tribulation first. We are the sanctified ones to ready the Bride; the Bride is not prepared yet. Our enemies spread lies about us and satan is right here poised to attack. Just like building a physical building, we need the foundation and framework to be true. A plan of action has been called for: this is the plan - get your loved ones out of Babylon so they can be prepared among the spotless Bride!!!

Also below is a link to one of the enemies of restoration and revival. I do not need to go to the site; I have been there and praise God for what is happening. The Lord's sheep hear the voice of the shepherd, so those that are led by the spirit of God will see through the lies and deceptions that groups like this perpetrate on their unsuspecting victims. The only ones that fall for this kind of stupid reasoning are those destined to fall with Babylon. It is indeed sad to think that many are misled by these fundamentalist cults but the good part is that they are alerting those that are truly led by the Holy Spirit to the glaring differences to what the Manifest Sons led by God truly stand for against the confusion of Babylon. We all know that satan will discredit us from within and without. These heresy hunter cults will look for all the discrepancies that have ever been committed by those claiming to be part of the restoration or latter rain movements and focus on any heresy or false doctrine that any person in the movement has fallen into and condemn the whole because of its parts. That is like saying that all Lutherans are false because Martin Luther taught determinism and took the sacrament out of marriage. These are devil tactics, those with the spirit of God will see right through them. The fact is that the manifest sons that will be revealed will be the most orthodox and Bible believing of any and this will make religious Babylon jealous to the point of allowing the adversary to take advantage of them out of their own pride and denial of spiritual power. Let them, they can do us no harm in the long run except to themselves and those already led by the devil.

Are we through with the manifest sons? Never. We may be through with the topic, but the concept itself will be the underlying fact that will motivate us to do all that we can do to promote unity, love and holiness until Jesus comes for us.

This time, rather than discussion, I would like to hear from you all. There are many of you from all parts of the world, so let's hear from you and what it is that you might like to say or discuss. Where are you from? What is your church background? Where would you like to see this group going, or where would you like to see yourself going? Please keep it to one not-so-long paragraph. If you would like to just give us your name and where you are from, this is good.

I'll be the first:

My name is Jay Atkinson and I am from Stockton, California, USA. My mother brought me up Baptist but after I was baptized in the Holy Spirit, I recognized that my giftings and the power of the Holy Spirit were being taught against in the church. Early on, God started alerting me to divisions. In the seventies, I spent much of my time in community service and thrived on controversy. In the eighties, I ended up in trinitarian Pentecostal Holiness, mostly in the black church and spent much time in study to prepare for writing. I spent the nineties hardly ever going to church but deep in study and preparing for my web site on the computer before there was even a web. I am blessed to be a part of this group and although content with discussion, I would like to see us also as an action group. I would like to discuss the idea of whether "all Christians are saints" or not. I believe that through the cross that we are justified through faith in Jesus and that we are then to grow into sanctification. I see myself in the future as continuing what God started in me with my web site and these discussions, writing a book someday and being involved in revival.

Now let's hear from you.


Dear Jay,

a few rambling thoughts:

1. The bride is apparently not dressed and ready until late in the book of Revelation, only after the great tribulation (Rev 19:7-8). Why did it take so long for her to get dressed? Perhaps because she needed to be purified by the crucible of trial and suffering; i.e., the wilderness. (Remember the multitude greater in number than any one could count who emerge victorious at the sixth seal having come OUT OF great tribulation and having washed their robes and made them white in the Blood of the Lamb?) Some would say, "How can God do that to His bride?" But how could He do else? His Son was perfected through His suffering. How else could His bride be perfected? It is a privilege and an honor and a birthing to walk as Jesus walked. All creation is groaning as in birthpains for the revealing of the sons of God. Are we willing to endure birthpains or will we fall away and find our love growing cold? We have not appropriated the way of the cross. Our flesh still often runs the show.

2. I see the man-child and the 144,000 firstfruits of Rev 14 as one and the same. They mature early and are "snatched up" to the throne of God. Holy, mature, with authority, and victorious. It is no coincidence that immediately after their arrival in heaven, satan is booted to earth. (Remember, Jesus gave His church ALL AUTHORITY over the evil one...and He is waiting for His church to rise to that authority!) I don't believe He is going to lift a finger beyond what He has already done to overcome satan until the church acts in the authority she has been given. He has delegated that authority to the church. (Of course without Him we are nothing, but "in His name" we have been given all authority to invoke His power to overcome the evil one.) Jesus rejoiced after the return of the 70 because He was looking forward in time and seeing His just fledgling church mature and rise to the full authority He desired for them...and their first act upon arrival in heaven is to boot satan out of heaven to earth! And on earth satan is overcome by the "rest of the woman's offspring" who are themselves brought simultaneously to maturity during the battle.

3. Is your wilderness over?? Answer: are you perfected yet? The letter to the church at Thyatira implies that we will be given whatever it takes during great tribulation in order to purify us. All the churches will know this when it is happening. Those who mature early may qualify as firstfruits; those who do not will be purified with the refining fires of great tribulation as necessary. Salvation is not the issue here. Perfection is the issue. I believe even those of Thyatira who are thrown into great tribulation are thrown there not as punishment but for redemptive purposes. They are still the church. Glory awaits. He will have His bride without spot or wrinkle. Apparently the degree of purification that He desires can be brought forth only through the process of great tribulation.

For Him,

Vern Kuenzi

Jay, Here are some thoughts on the manifest sons of God. I think I have much to say on the subject but haven't got it together yet. Here is my first effort:

This is the hour for which the whole creation groans as in travail, awaiting the manifestation of the sons of God. Who are the sons of God? Jesus, the pattern Son, was made perfect through suffering that He might bring many sons to glory. All who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. The manifest sons of God are those who have come into God's presence on His Holy Mountain. They have entered into His glory and have gone out into the world to manifest that glory. Christ is living His life through them. They are wholly sanctified, totally committed to God and His purposes. They are fully equipped for the warfare of these last days. They will show forth the Resurrection power of the Lord Jesus.

You have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.

Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe; for our God is a consuming fire. (Hebrews 12:22--25, 28, 29)

The Lord is calling us to go up His Holy Mountain with Jesus to gaze with unveiled face upon His glory, to enter into His glorious presence, to be clothed with glory as Jesus was. From there, we will descend into the valleys and deserts of the world to manifest His glory, and to minister the love and the power of Jesus for the restoration and fulfillment of His purposes in this earth.

Edwin Stube


From what I believe and from what I am gathering from your teachings, the victory and meaning of the Manifest Sons is becoming clearer. What a mighty God we serve! I believe that the Manifest Sons are preparing the Bride yet strengthening themselves as individuals to do battle for the Bride once she is ready to receive her Lord. No one knows the day or the hour the Bride will receive, but the time of going against the grain and for suffering great pain is now. The Manifest Sons need to be "hands-on" instructors or trainers - and in the process of preparing the Body they will sharpen their own great skills and powers even more. It will be necessary. Attacks from every front and from every side and from behind will be relentless. The Bride will be rocked and shaken, but the outcome will never be in doubt or in jeopardy.

Isaiah walked the streets shoeless and naked for three years, warning the people of Egypt and of Ethiopia (Isaiah 20:3) that they would be carried away into bondage in this manner. Jesus was crucified. The Manifest Sons are being persecuted and ridiculed - hmm... Brother of mine, in Christ there is much suffering. God asks monumental sacrifices of His own because He knows that we can take it. He also knows our hearts. This is His way. God does not ask of us at this time to pass along doctrine or dogma. He is asking much more of the Manifest Sons. He is asking us to give our lives for Him. In return, we receive the greater glory that far surpasses anything the human mind can conceive. A joy so blissful that it cannot be received in the flesh. A wisdom so powerful that only the spirit can obtain.

Jay, you are doing an excellent job of reveal the plan of action! (smile) I may be jumping the gun here, but it seems to me that you're planting the seeds for the next move. I sincerely believe that your web site and e-mail transmissions are great vehicles for getting the message out. If I can be of any help to you in any way, please let me know. God has blessed me and He is dealing with me in my everyday life. Anything I can do to further His word or His work, I would be more than happy to oblige. It's all in love!

Bill Caraway

Here is a link to a website which explains the "Manifest Sons Doctrine", with a few weird little twists thrown in I have never heard of; such as the Rapture not existing, Believers thinking that they are Gods, and that Jesus is not literally coming back the way Scriptures state! ) Basically this 'Doctrine' if you will, is perceived as Delusion and even Heresy by that element of 'believers' who are not spirit-filled, do not believe in the Five-fold Ministry, that Apostles and Prophets exist today, or in any sort of spiritual manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Because of this, you will see various words and concepts taken literally when they were meant descriptively or figuratively by the speaker being quoted. It is interesting.

[Unidentified site]

As to exactly what the wording 'Manifest Sons of God' may refer to, if it is referring to the Apostles and Prophets specifically, or the entire Five-Fold Ministry, or whatever: I personally am not going to worry about getting caught up in the quandary. I believe the Lord will reveal which of these it refers to, or if it refers to something else, in His Own Time. I tend to think it is in reference to Leadership, whether it be to Apostles and Prophets or to the entire Five-Fold, but as of yet, I can only say it is my opinion. And I would say, most assuredly, that the Remnant Bride is not yet fully prepared. As for Unity; of course we should be praying for the Lord to make us One. This is, however, the work of the Holy Spirit, and not anything we are capable of accomplishing on our own, of our own accord. As for making snap judgements on whether or not a person is really called to be an Apostle, a Prophet or any other of the Five-Fold; I think we need to relax, turn it over to the Lord, who knows all things when we don't, and allow others the freedom to be, to speak and to express. The Lord will reveal in His Own Time; and sometimes He likes to test us out and see how well we accept each other. We usually flunk this course. Patience - as God is not finished with ANY of us yet is a good motto for all of us to adopt. RevDeb

Truly agree with these ideas and know they are of God. I am really happy that we can have unity on this. One thing God has been dealing with people in my town with is Satan. I see the sifting and purging going on as Satan attacks one person, God gives first a warning then, depending on whether the person falls or stands firm in the Lord, the Lord does accordingly.

I am constantly seeing the hot get hotter and the cold go into a freezing stand still, which obviously as we all know causes backsliding. God gave me a dream, though at the first moments it didn't complete add up. The dream: it started at my Mother's house, and I was just sitting down watching TV and all of a sudden a bobcat and a baby bobcat came out from behind the entertainment center. I of course to begin with out of panic was ready to run, but then I slowly walked and sent a warning. I know it all sounds weird.

God revealed to me that the Bobcat in the dream represented Satan and the Principality in my area. God said that as long as I don't panic that the Bobcat will not attack because of its own fear of being destroyed. The warning I gave in my dream was a false warning, God said clearly everybody knows that the Bobcat/Principality is there ready to attack, it is just that we can't allow ourselves fear otherwise we lose. The Spirit of Fear and panic is clearly from Satan.

Andrew Paul

Report on how the Five-Fold is faring:

I live in an area in PA which is predominately Mennonite, or other old-order branches. Basically this means 3 things: extreme traditionalism and regulation, extreme discrimination against women in general, and specifically women in any sort of leadership, including ministry-related, and either totally non-Spirit-filled/Charismatic, or extreme blocking, quenching, or limiting of the Holy Spirit if they do happen to be Charismatic. I am accustomed to going it alone; have been born-again, Charismatic, since early childhood, and throughout childhood and teenage years, have been the ONLY person ( that I know of ) in churches I attended Presbyterian, Methodist, Fundamentalist ) who literally believed in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, visions, dreams, miracles, and the Five-Fold. In my early twenties, I encountered my first 'Charismatic' group, which I attended for a few years. It was a Mennonite offshoot which broke away from the control of the traditional church. They thought the Five-Fold was possible ( but not really accepting the idea of Apostles ), along with gifts and manifestations of the Holy Spirit, but still had the tendency to attempt to 'appoint' their own choices for the positions, were very leery of women, and generally blocked or controlled the moving of the Holy Spirit. After leaving this group, I attended the large, semi-Charismatic Mennonite, main church, and two of its other Charismatic branches in other areas. Same thing: female discrimination, blocking and controlling the Holy Spirit, somewhat open to the Five-Fold, but not really buying the existence of Apostles. For a few years after that, I went to various Charismatic churches in the surrounding area just to check them out and get a feel of what their belief and operation consisted of ( and still have found nothing I would care to call a 'home church' in my general area ). Another thing I see is the tendency to try to 'create and control' anyone who is called into the Five-Fold, by 'officially' making the decision as to whether they should be a member of the Five-Fold, and then compelling a 'passed' candidate to attend their own specific training centers ( and this usually involves quite a cost for the 'training' ). I have also noticed that 'screened Prophecies' block any Word from the Lord which is directed at anything negative about the church, the leadership, the worship, etc. General Repentance and Revival messages directed toward the Congregation or Community at large go over big, as do any kind of totally positive messages. There are small segments within these churches here and there, who are into serious Intercession for Revival and manifestation of the Five-Fold, etc. But, overall, too many people seem to be 'tolerating' too much error and control, and just staying under the surface to avoid making waves or inflaming family, neighbors and friends. Lord Deliver us!


Dear Jay

I read your essay on Manifest Sons of God three times over. Very powerful stuff.

When I come across writings like this I naturally apply it to myself and my circumstances. I agree with all you say and thank you for taking such a courageous stand.

In the five fold ministry I do not think myself as an apostle or evangelist or prophet or pastor. I would however regard myself as a teacher. This has been my secular profession for the past 35 years and I feel that God has called me now to use my teaching ability to advance His kingdom. As a teacher it is important that I do not give my students any wrong information. Your essay calls on people like myself to network and share ideas. So may I very briefly outline my thoughts by way of preparation if called on to teach?

I teach Civil Engineering so if I had to teach 'Spiritual' Engineering I think I would have to say that just as in a building there are foundations, a framework and cladding so likewise in our spiritual construction the foundations and framework need to clearly defined. But the cladding although necessary is less important and there is more room for flexibility and choice here. It seems to me that much of the division within the church is over 'cladding' issues and perhaps not enough attention has been given to foundational and framework truths.

Hence as a teacher my syllabus for the foundations and framework of Biblical Christianity would cover the following topics.

  1. God- a righteous power and intelligence that is eternal with no beginning and no end.
  2. God- the creator , owner and ruler of the Universe which had a beginning.
  3. God- the creator and owner of the Earth
  4. God-the designer and creator of all living things
  5. God-the Father who desires righteous Sons to share the Universe with.
  6. Adam the first Son of God in this present generation of humanity. (There were previous generations of Sons of God and the spirits of rebellious ones now roam the Earth awaiting judgement. The faithful ones are God's angels)
  7. All of Adam's descendants have been taken over by spirits of rebellious sons of God and therefore rightly deserve to be punished. Noah's Flood was an act of mercy if understood in terms of God's righteousness
  8. Jesus came down to Earth to bear the pain of punishment and free man from from Satanic bondage and the danger of eternal damnation.
  9. People who have truly accepted Jesus are now Sons of God of this generation.
  10. This generation of the Sons of God will manifest themselves more fully during the end times.
  11. The Great Tribulation will manifest more Sons of God and will induce others to become potential Sons of God.
  12. The 1000 year reign of King Jesus on this Earth will be assisted by the Sons of God from the current generation.
  13. After the 1000 years are up the Sons of God will live with their Father forever on a new Earth and a new Heaven
  14. People who have refused sonship will spend eternity away from God and His sons.

Well Jay this is a foundation and framework that seems logical to me and could be backed with scriptures. But I will not be dogmatic about it. I may have missed out important parts or included things which ought not to be taught. In a spirit of love, humility and inquiry I submit this to you as you have requested.


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