Leadership and Authority
"but be filled with the spirit... submitting yourselves one to another
in the fear of God."
I suppose even more time will be needed before we can really come to one
accord on who we should be following, Jesus or man. There will always be
those that feel that we should be following men because they are
following the Lord but as for me, I will be content with following Jesus
and humbly submitting to all of you who are also following Him and not
to those who wish to elevate themselves above the rest of us. I ask
no-one to follow me in this but only to point to my one Lord and Master,
Jesus and to admonish you to consider the plurality of the collective
leadership inherent in the body of Christ that comes with unity. Again,
we should be submitting to one another. As brother Alan says, "The
anointing on all of us, is greater than the anointing on any one of us!"
Of course, there will be those that will throw up their hands and
despise this kind of thinking but we must go on. We have been down this
road twice now and God is dealing with those who will not relinquish
their crowns as well as strengthening us that are committed to Christian
service. We are truly in the period of the first trumpet.
Revival is coming. By the way, if you are interested in seeing who the
speakers are at the Celebrate Jesus Conference, you may find them at
http://www.CelebrateJesus2000.com/speakers.htm.
As to responses, we had Brenda, who has been removed twice from churches
for wanting Jesus to be the only leader. I know how she feels. Doug
Fortune stands with us and thinks that Jesus should be the only boss.
Tim Early believes that the dominion of the church is in ministry in
that it is a collective rule. One at my outreach ministry had a dream
that someone was on the podium asking all of us who were leaders to
stand up. We all stood up. I guess if we are a collective that this is
the true leadership and I can certainly submit to all of us in that but
for anyone to stand out as separate from this is false leadership. Do
you wish to be a Christian leader? Are you truly called to leadership?
If so, it better be part of that collective unity and you better be
serving us all in humility or you are just fooling yourself.
As to spiritual authority, God has given us the authority over spiritual
wickedness in high places, we have the authority to cast out demons, to
bring down the high places and bring down strongholds. We have the power
to stretch out our hands and allow the blood of Jesus to course through
our veins and out of our bodies in spiritual power to heal and to
deliver and to fill others with His spirit. We have the authority to
have signs and wonders following, God speaks and lives through us
through the death of His Son and in the power of His Holy Spirit. This
is true authority but as we have learned through this discussion, it is
derived authority, not assumed.
There was an apostle that thinks that we should be under the authority
of certain men because of the example given us when Nadab and Abihu
rebelled against Aaron. Actually Aaron was the high priest and is a type
of Christ. Who is your high priest? Is it Jesus? or do you put another
in as high priest, like an apostle or a pastor like these people teach?
I had a local pastor that wanted me under his leadership recently that
thought that he was in a position of "headship" in the church. Those
that follow this kind of leadership are the ones that are rebelling and
serving God independently, those that follow Jesus are serving God
completely. Why is it so hard for so many to see this?
How about some more confirmation in this, I am not alone but we should
be able to come to one accord. Or should we go on. Our next topic is
prophets. Should we submit to prophets, or should they be subject to one
another. Of course the latter is true but what of authority. The only
authority that prophets have is the God that speaks through them. I have
heard many prophets tell me that I MUST listen to them because they hear
the Lord. As far as I am concerned, they are also serving God
independently, again, we must submit to each other - that is what love,
humility and dialogue is all about.
Jay.
Greetings Jay in the name of Jesus the Christ,
This is the first time I have taken the opportunity to respond. I
thank God so much for what God has imparted into you. Thank you for
allowing God to use you in this manner. I have truly appreciated and
be enlighten as I have read all these emails.
Be a young lady in the ministry is such a Blessing, along with the
suffering. I have and will continue to be a servant of the most high
God, sharing with all those believers and no-believers that it is not
me, but Jesus the Christ that lives in me.
I have been put out of 2 churches, because I stood on the truth that
Jesus was the only leader. It is so sad to see the people that is yet
in bondage, due to pastors making them feel as though they are God.
May God continue to use you as a vessel unto honor, to help people
like myself and others.
I stand on this scripture. 2 Corin 13:8
Your sister in Christ Jesus
Evang Todd, (Brenda)
Sent by blackvoices Mail
AUTHORITY... SUBMISSION... APOSTOLIC REFORMATION
This is not intended to be a deep and thorough Biblical study,
just some practical thoughts to share. OK, so now we have apostles
and prophets in the Church along with the pastors we've always
had... so who's the boss? If that is my main concern, then I
have totally missed the heart of the apostolic reformation. Is
the restoration of apostles in the church intended to give us
another hierarchy system with a bit more impressive titles?...
Apostle so and so, sounds pretty lofty! In fact, I Cor.12:28
tells us that it's "...apostles FIRST...", so that makes them
the boss, right?... NOT! The word translated FIRST, is 'proton'
in Greek; it is the neuter form of protos; so firstly we see
that there is no gender designation concerning apostles... remember,
in Christ there is neither male nor female. Proton means, 'firstly
in time, place, order or importance; before, at the beginning'.
I believe this significant, as apostles are referred to as the
foundation (Christ being the Cornerstone), and the foundation
comes before the rest of the house is built. I believe it also
refers to a 'pioneering' spirit, one who blazes a trail for others.
Does this mean that the apostle is the boss?... no, it means
that there is a spiritual grace upon them for their particular
task.
The key in the authority issue is simply recognizing the gifting
and ministry of Christ operating through each other, recognizing
FUNCTIONAL responsibility, and then 'submitting to each other
in love'. How can I be 'boss' of something that I have no functional
responsibility and no gifting for? My wife is extremely gifted
in the kitchen (the extra five pounds I carry around my waist
is proof!) and she bears the primary FUNCTIONAL responsibility
of feeding our family of six. Now the husband is the head of
the wife, right?... so that means I'm the boss of the kitchen,
right?... NOT!!! I gladly submit to her authority in the kitchen
until such time I am willing to take the FUNCTIONAL responsibility
of feeding our growing army (that will NEVER happen!).
Now we understand this principle this in a household matter like
the kitchen, but why do we often times fail to get it in the
Household of Faith? How many people with a servant's heart have
been trampled upon because someone in supposed authority who
had never performed the particular task thought it ought to be
done their way? I am the worship leader for our worship team
in our fellowship, however I am not particularly gifted in
administration (that's an understatement!). Our keyboard player
(who is a worship leader also) is wonderfully gifted in administration,
so she takes care of any administration and I gladly submit to
her authority.... nobody is worried about who's the boss! I believe
that at the root of many of the problems we have in the Church
in this area is that unfortunately many of our ideas of authority
are based on a religious Babylonian clergy / laity hierarchy
system rather than Kingdom principles. What feeds this also is
the SOULISH desire to be in control. I'm NOT saying we shouldn't
be good managers of the resources that God gives us, but good
management is building Christ IN the people. Recognizing and
nurturing the gifting and ministry of Christ through others IS
building Christ in them AND good management. This is the strength
of the apostle... the ability to speak words
that are containers of Life and Light into the life of an individual
and thereby release or activate the anointing already resident,
but previously dormant in the individual.
Should this be any kind of a threat to the pastor (I use this
term pastor to mean the primary leader in a church, not because
that is an accurate description of a pastor, but because that
is what the religious system calls them) that the apostle can
do something that the pastor probably isn't gifted for?... not
if the pastor has a true shepherd's heart. Does this make the
apostle superior to the pastor?... no, just a different gifting
and
function. Does this give the apostle greater authority with the
people than the pastor has?... no, because the FUNCTIONAL responsibility
of caring for the sheep ultimately lies with the pastor... but
part of effective pastoring IS helping provide others with apostolic
influence (as well as all the other five fold ministries). If
my objective is to build up MY ministry or build up MY fellowship,
then I am probably operating under a Babylonian hierarchy mentality.
If my objective is to undergird and support and build Christ
INTO the people, then I must operate under the Kingdom principle
of recognizing the ministry of Christ through other five fold
ministers, many of whom are currently sitting in the congregation
and not paid staff members necessarily. Let's let Christ build
up HIS Church.
Back to the authority issue... I believe it is a fairly accurate
rule of thumb in determining authority that we first determine
FUNCTIONAL responsibility... whoever is actually responsible
for seeing that the task gets done (that doesn't mean they are
doing ALL the work by themself) is probably the best candidate
for having the authority in that area. For example, should the
pastor or senior elder (whatever you choose to call them) choose
all the songs for the worship leader?... probably no more than
the worship leader should write the pastors sermon. Should the
worship leader determine the length of time for music in a service?...
no, because the ultimate functional responsibility for a service
usually lies with the pastor. Most of the time, just some sanctified
common sense can solve potential problems.
Another result of the religious clergy / laity system is the
idea that I must have some person as my 'spiritual head'. I believe
that Christ is the HEAD whom I am to grow up into (Eph.4:15);
and what of I Tim.2:5 as it says "...there is one God and ONE
MEDIATOR between God and man, the MAN Christ Jesus."... we are
ALL individual priests before God. Yes, we all need accountability
relationships.. yes, we must submit ourselves one to another;
however, if someone insists that you submit to them outside the
areas of their FUNCTIONAL responsibility, then I say beware.
So, who's the boss?... Jesus Christ; He must receive the pre-eminence
in ALL things. From there, we submit to each other recognizing
the gifting and ministry of Christ through each other. We cannot
manifest the fullness of Christ as lone individuals, but as a
Body we can grow into manifesting His fullness.
The next was a response to Doug's article:
The foundation or ELEMENTARY PARTICLES that the apostles display
are the fruit of the Spirit or LOVE. There's more depth to this
but that should be enough.
One other thing. I appreciate what your trying to do (show what
apostles really are without offending the religious order and
those controlled by it's
hierarchy) but in reality many are accepting apostles for GAIN
and not for FREEDOM. Keep this in mind. If the FIRST or FOUNDATIONAL
particles are absent the whole building is corrupt. Apostles
FIRSTLY are living epistles and not FIRST bosses (a point you
made very well) but to those who are part of the religious order
they are FIRST meaning over or above or in authority. NOTHING
WILL CHANGE THEIR HEARTS!!! As Jesus said to the pharisee "how
will you escape the damnation of hell?". Pure hearts allow us
to see God while those "enquiring of God through a prophet (coming
to Jesus) with an idol in their heart will be answered accoring
to the idol" (Ezekiel 14). We are all gravitating and hearing
according to the purity of our heart motives. Nothing can change
the course many are on because of the motives.
Love you brother...always good to hear you expound on the word.
In His Love
APOSTOLIC DESTINY: THE DOMINION MANDATE
Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue
it, and have {or take} dominion...Genesis 1:28
Welcome to chapter five of our series, as this is slightly different
from the last 4 chapters.
Section {A} The Kingdom
We have been foreknown in the mind of God, and predestined with
a purpose to take the nations through Dominion, the King's Domain.
We have a destination, a settlement, and an appointment with
the end of this age, and the ages to come...
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world
{age} to come.
Like John the Baptist in the Spirit of Elijah, we are a people
between two eras. One is a foreclosure of events, and another
we are becoming forerunners to.
In this we are not bound for disaster, or for a fatal end, but
is assured to overcome...
For we are witnessing the manifested sons of God, the overcomer
company, the manchild ministry, and the Melchisedec Order in
today's church. This glorious church will determine the end of
this age through the power of destiny. We are not sorcerers,
nor are we charlatans. But, we as a present truth apostolic people
of reformation, have a prophetic word in our mouths, declaring
true what God has been doing all along.
We must speak it, and declare the glory of the Lord in it. We
must prophesy, not only with our lips, but also with our very
own lives! For we are not Generation X, but Generation {Now}
and Next!
Now the destiny of the church is quite simple, " We win!" or
should I say from the God-kind of perspective, "We won!" Revelation
20:10 {Victory over the Satan, the Beast, False Prophet}
Four Important Areas of the Kingdom of God
In the middle of the 80's we had put together a seminar on the
Kingdom of God. The truths and topics we had developed then,
became meat in due season for many. The meeting was given in
four main topics, which I present to you in brief.
1- The Kingdom of God
The kingdom of God is the sphere and sovereign rule of the Lord
in heaven and earth. It is wherever Jesus Christ is Lord, and
is theocratic in nature. The kingdom of God is his will done
in earth even as it is in heaven. The kingdom of God is pioneered
through the present truth understanding that Jesus is now Lord
and King! Matthew 6:10; Luke 17:20-21
And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from
Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall
speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from
sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.
Zech. 9:10
2 - The King of Kings
Jesus is the personification of the kingdom. Wherever he is Lord
that is where the kingdom is greatly manifest. Therefore, though
he is Lord over all, we must take this kingdom to the streets,
cities, towns, neighborhoods, and by the Spirit of God, draw
others into the kingdom of his dear son. For the purpose of the
Kingdom is found in Colossians 1:13... {Also, read Colossians
1:13-19, 27}
Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated
us into the kingdom of his dear son.
3 - The King-Priest Ministry
The church is the instrumentation of the kingdom, for the kingdom
and church is an inseparable oneness of purpose with a dynamic
and electrifying destiny ahead of us. Hebrews 5:2, 6, 10; 6:20;
7:1-28; 8:1-13; 1 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:10; Daniel 7:22, 27
Every age or span of time has had its kingdom instrument, Even
so, the church is a living entity and creative force which flows
out of the last Adam, the quickening spirit.
The church must minister to creation from a throne perspective
{Mercy-Seat; between the Cherubim}..."God of Israel, that dwells
between the cherubim..." Is. 37:16
Thus, the church's destiny is clearly seen from the church's
purpose...Dominion
4 - Practical Kingdom to Ultimate Kingdom {Mt. 5-7}
This is the kingdom on an everyday practical level. It is the
kingdom in the school system, the kingdom in the home, the kingdom
on the job, and the kingdom established abroad.
Ultimate kingdom is the full intent of God's will and purpose
established in the earth through the church, his kingdom instrument.
Practical kingdom leads to ultimate kingdom. Little changes here
and there in society through reconstruction and reformation,
becomes significant strides in the long run. It's here a little,
there a little! {Isaiah 28:13}
The Purpose and Motive of the Kingdom
Daniel 2:44...to break in pieces and consume all other kingdoms...
We have been called out to go into...Matthew 28:18-20; Colossians
1:13...Called out of Darkness, into the Light: to go into Darkness,
to bring others into the Light.
Because the church world had become bombarded with passive doctrines
and ideologies, a great mass of believers gave up on the dominion
mandate {Kingdom Authority}. Instead of enduring tribulation
and difficult times, many assume that the revelation of destiny
and dominion is so elusive, that one would have to change their
entire doctrinal and religious thinking to even grasp a fragment
of the restored truth of the King's Domain. For some, dominion
is ultra-nebula, exotic, and way, way, out! {Well, maybe it is
way out of reach from the idolatry of carnal mind}
Beloved, we are given in the earth to witness some dramatic and
radical changes through the presence of the Holy Spirit, and
the administration of Christ's Kingdom subduing all other kingdoms
as confirmed in 1 Corinthians 15:24-26, and Revelation 11:15.
We are here to bring pure kingdom release to those in bondage,
futility, and corruption.
..For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
destroy {loosen, break, dissolve, melt, put off} he works of
the devil. 1 John 3:8
For the earnest expectation of the creature {creation} wait for
the manifestation of the sons of God. Romans 8:19 {Manifested
sons of God} {also, verses 21-27}
Now, it is not to by our human strength or merit, but by the
living word of the Lord and his quickening nature to stir the
church for such a time as this. At his command, he is the one
whom brings to pass his ultimate and sovereign will in the earth,
and he is the one whom will bring to an end the injustices of
our society through a people prepared for him. For in this very
hour, the clock is ticking "Kingdom, Dominion, Rule, Reign, and
Lordship!" This too, is accomplished through the understanding
of the certain sound in our spiritual hearing. John 10:4-5; 1
Corinthians 14:7-8; 15:52; Num. 10:1-10; Rev. 1:10
..But the people that know their God shall be strong, and do
exploits. Daniel 11:32
The Motive of the Kingdom
The motive of the Kingdom is always the Father's steadfast love.
In John 3:16, we find this verse pivotal to the relevant truth
that God does not condemn anyone, but has the ultimate end in
mind to restore all men unto him self. For God so loved, that
he gave, and love is never love all by itself. Therefore, true
love {God-kind of love} must be shared...
Now love is a person, and that love is the Lord Jesus Christ
himself personified in the book of 1 Corinthians the 13th chapter.
Beloved, this is the motive of the kingdom. If you were to ask
any believer to take inventory of their life measured by the
Personification of Love, which is the Lord Jesus Christ, what
do you suppose their response would be? But then on the other
hand, put this principle to work for you right now, and ask the
Holy Spirit to mold and reshape you into the character of God
which is his never ending and undying love, love unfeigned...Genuine
love..
RULE AND REIGN OF GOD THROUGH THE SAINTS
The church's thinking is gradually being steered into the principles
of the kingdom of God to rule and reign right here, and right
now. From ruling and reigning in our spirit, soul, and body,
our families, and jobs, to taking the kingdom of the living God
to the streets of our nations, this will be a definite concern
to the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. According to Isaiah 9:7
as referenced below...
Of the INCREASE of his GOVERNMENT and PEACE there shall be NO
END, upon the THRONE of David, and upon his KINGDOM, to ORDER
it, and to ESTABLISH it with JUDGMENT and with JUSTICE, from
henceforth even forever. The ZEAL of the Lord of hosts will PERFORM
this.
The rule and reign of the Lord among the earth, is God's governmental
order. It is his government versus that of this world. It is
his good pleasure, his way of doing things. So, let us rejoice
in the truth that the increase of his government reshapes the
world we live in, and subdues it with ultimate kingdom, and ultimate
purpose. For by having a world -view of the kingdom in the earth
realm, we shall see a world harvest and revival of the glorious
kind. We shall witness reformation on many levels.
Tim and Theresa Early
"Nadab and Abihu were out of coordination with Aaron, hence they were
out
of coordination with God. They should not have left Aaron and served
independently. Those who violate authority would be consumed by fire
from
before God. And though Aaron was not conscious of the seriousness of
this
matter, Moses realized how serious it was to rebel against God's
authority.
Today many are trying to serve God independently. They have never been
under authority; they unwittingly sin against God's authority."
Subject:
Dear Dave & Karen
Here is an article you should enjoy, by Dennis Kinlaw, in
JUBILEE, a monthly of Prison Fellowship, I believe:
"We in the Body of Christ have made a great mistake. Somehow we
have thought that God could save the world at no great cost to Himself.
After all, we think, can He not speak in power and glory and redeem us?
If He can, He did not! Salvation did not come to us from God's
throne; it came to us from His cross.
It seems there is a law so universally binding that not even God
can make Himself an exception to it: Nothing is ultimately redemptive
but
self-sacrifice; Not even God saves by power and glory. He gives us His
gifts; we take them, bargain for more, then turn our backs unchanged.
But
when He gives Himself, liberation becomes possible for us.
When we see the nail prints in His hands and feet and the scars
on his brow and side, something happens to us. we expect mortals to die
for their gods; history is replete with that. But when we see God die
for
us, we know His love.
And if He redeems only through self-sacrifice, is there any
other
way for us? If we want to be instruments of His peace, must we lay down
our lives?
Here 20th century evangelicals have made a mistake. Our word to
the world has been, "Receive Christ." But Jesus' message was not,
"Receive Me. He said, "Follow Me." Suddenly one senses a shadow - the
shadow of a cross. If we follow Him, we too must go the way of
self-sacrifice.
We as Christ's disciples are willing to sacrifice anything but
ourselves; and for this reason the world has not yet felt the full
impact
of the gospel. Through His grace, we must take our hands off our lives
and say, "Spend me as You will." Then we will become part of His answer
to the world's needs. Then our lives will see no pain, heartache,
loneliness, rejection or humiliation that does not bear eternal fruit.
The call to follow Jesus needs to be spread abroad. Through our
sacrifice, others can live. It is not the strong and powerful whom God
will use to change society; it is the lowly and meek. His saving
instrument is not the scepter but the bruised reed.
We prefer the thought of sitting with the Lion of Judah to judge
the world. Our call now, though, is to follow the Passover Lamb, Who
came
to be consumed so that the world could be saved. The church and the
world
need to see this. Who can show them?
We can be eternally effective, but only if we have some scars."
Jesus,must at all times be our leader,for he has
told us that without me ye can do nothing.
For David speaketh concerning him,I foresaw the
Lord always before my face,for he is at my right
hand that i should not be moved.Acts 2:25.Even
the Pharisee's who were the authority figures,in
the Lord's time,had a problem with authority,when
they question our Lord in Matthew 21:23,And when he was come into the
temple,the chief priests and
the elders of the peole came unto him as he was
teaching,and said,By what authority doest thou these things? and who
gave thee (this) authority?
But if it be of God,ye cannot overthrow it;lest
haply ye be found even to fight against God.
Acts 5:39.Those who are the called,in order to
not be tripped up by the obsession,of authority,
and leadership,note that many just want to be a
part of something or just try to get along,basically
will fall for anything,but there is a leading by the
Holy Spirit,to be as those who were in the book
of Acts 17:11.These were more noble than those
in Thessalonica in that they receivede word with
all readiness of mind,and searched the scriptures
daily,whether those things were so.i truly sense
the Spirit moving among us,concerning this
discussion,actually at this time i am rejoicing,
because questioning authority,and leadership
is a subject that needs to be addressed,if one does
not have a problem with it then one could possibly
be lead by anyone or anything.Pray for one another
brothers,and sisters,unity scares the enemy.
Jesus,our leader,and why call ye me Lord,Lord,
and do not the things i say.
Jim
morning Jay-I find not only your insight but also your manner of
bringing
that view to others very refreshing.You lay out a subject that you know
there are as many view points as there are people.You allow us to speak
our
minds and then you look for something that might feed you also.For you
see
this is your site that you have set up but yet you do not run it.True
power
comes from God.No one can have any power unless God gives it to them.The
secret to true living power is thru the death of our flesh.As Christ is
our
example,His true lasting power came from His death not from His living
in
this world in the flesh.So if that is true then the same must be said
about
us for to lose this life is to gain His.True leadership comes from
following.My grandpappy years ago taught me that to be a good doer you
first
must be a good helper.I have to take that same path in my learning of
Christ.If I am your friend my goal is to see what I can do to help you
not
to see what you can do for me.I feel sorry that for people who want to
rule.They are the ones who have set themselves to fall.His vester says
"king
of kings and lord of lords",not mine.It is so odd that we desire to have
rule over things that do not belong to us.For God will not share His
glory
and His glory comes from the beginning.The one who created rules!!!A
true
"leader",such as Paul,knows that flesh can be blinded and only by the
spirit
can a man can really see.When I first found this site and felt it's
spirit I
was so pleased.I have found a site where once again a man was blinded to
worldly things and was following a spirit I call boss.Life is to short
to
here for us to get caught up in the battle of leadership.God when He
created
Adam and Eve knew that the role of leader ship was to be there
downfall.and
it also will be ours unless we lead by His leadership and not lending to
our
own understanding.Thanks again for all of your insight and your
willingness
to share that with others.For some know in part and if we share our part
then we shall all gain.With the love of Christ and a glad heart I
say,"God"s
speed". Your Brother James S.
Hi Jay;
I've resisted responding the several discussions about leadership in the
Body of Christ but I cannot hold my tongue any longer. I am not a bible
school graduate. I don't presume to know the scriptures like the
Bereans.
What I am however is a student attending Holy Spirit University. He has
said many times that He will teach me, not man.
The Lord has plainly told me the following, among many other things: "I
have called you to be a leader at Sheepfold (my AoG church)..." He used
the
word leader, not me. He also told me that I wear a banner across my
chest
with the phrase "Bond-servant" and He gave me Luke 22:26. I didn't ask
for
it - I'm as surprised as anyone else. He has also told me not to worry
about man's titles, they only impress other men and not Him. I have no
credentials, nor am I recognized by any denomination as being called to
a
Five-Fold Office. The Lord however has other plans apparently. He has
clearly called me to an office and I have seen/experienced consistent
increases in anointing and power as I participate in the ministry to the
saved and unsaved.
I have delivered two Sunday School messages and a mid-week service last
week, to everyone's surprise (including me!) After the service (titled,
"Miracles") I prayed for six people, four of whom "fell out" under the
power
of the Holy Spirit. These are not courtesy drops and I only mention
them to
demonstrate that it is God who validates the calling, not man.
Whether you or I like it or not, God Himself told me that He has called
me
to be a "leader" in my local church and He has been providing
opportunities
and opening doors where, quite suddenly, I have become an integral part
of
the ministry team. People are recognizing what God is choosing to do
through me and they are beginning to seek me out to minister to them,
especially the leadership of the church (pastors, deacons). There have
been
undeniable outpourings of the Holy Spirit's power including miraculous
healings and deliverances. In fact, each passing week finds greater and
greater anointing in my walk with the Lord. It is all Him!
The Lord has also anointed me to reach out to men of a similar age as
myself
(thirtysomethings). I've seen awesome spiritual growth in two men in
particular, in a very short time. God is raising up His Last Days Army
and
it has leaders commissioned by Him personally, not by man.
I intend you no insult but I must share with you what has been happening
and
what I have been hearing. Your only recourse is to reevaluate your
thinking
around this idea of leadership in the Body of Christ or dismiss what God
has
been saying to me, doing through me and what He has sovereignly called
me
to.
In Christian Love,
Jay,
Jay, I just finished reading your letter under this heading, about women
in
authority especially. I am really having to struggle with this issue,
mainly because of what it seems to me the Lord is doing right at this
hour
in the earth. I agree mostly with what you have said, in that women
have
true author-ity from the Lord in this earth through the power of the
Holy
Spirit. I think the danger is when women are "over" men in a "position"
of
authority in the church, and please just bear with me as I explain what
I
mean. As far as in a place of ministry, I have to wonder at the idea of
a
woman being a pastor or teaching wherever there is a man who has "equal"
authority from the Lord. Only because it is such an unnatural thing for
men to be "submitted" to women. It seems very out of order to me. I
think
I have seen some terrible abuses in my life and have seen women who have
assumed that position, and almost every one fell into sin, including two
of
the ones you mentioned. Both Amy and Kathryn were involved in extended
adulterous relationships, actually going off with married men in hidden
affairs. I don't say God didn't use either of them in response to His
calling on their lives, or that He didn't do anything through them or
that
they didn't ultimately repent and allow the Lord to work through them.
But
I can't help but wonder if they wouldn't have been better off married to
men who were true believers who would have "covered" them and protected
them. It is hard for me to reconcile the whole thing, but I am really
submitting this to you as food for thought.
This is a difficult issue for me, as my husband is a very macho kind
of
guy even though he isn't for the most part "oppressive". In ministry he
has
always been the one who does most of the talking at our concerts, and he
is
definitely the "preacher" even though I am the one that gets most of our
songs, actually does the writing. It has been a little hard for me to
work
out things with my husband and the guy who plays music with us because
they
are such strong men, and they really have a hard time with me "leading"
so
they kind of have to take control in every situation. It at times has
been
a source of conflict, and I have felt like they don't really respect me
because I am a woman, which has caused me some resentment. They will
change my songs, tell me I'm doing things wrong, get kind of bossy a
lot,
which is rather unpleasant. But I have really prayed about this and
felt
the Lord showed me that HIS authority is not at all like the world's.
It
is love, and truth, and "servanthood"....that HE never sought to "rule
over" any person and came to free us from such a terrible lie that has
been
foisted upon us by the enemy. I heard a couple from Mission America
teaching on this subject, and I really witnessed to what the Lord had
shown
them. In Genesis, God told man that He had given him dominion over the
fish of the sea, the fowl of the air, every aspect of creation. NOT
over
men, or even woman, that was the result of the fall of man. Jesus told
His
disciples that if they wanted to be greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven
they
must make themselves least of all. I think any woman having true
"authority" from the Lord will not desire to "lord" over another person,
man or woman, as any man who has true authority will also attest to. I
have never seen this work in a healthier way than in my church, where we
have elders and pastors who are all equal in their "power" to "direct"
or
to oversee the affairs of the church. But there has never been anyone
there
who flaunts their "power" or "postion" as one "over" as much as to
simply
"oversee" the flock. To protect, lead, teach and feed as a shepherd
does
his sheep. We have women elders and deaconesses who are elected by our
congregation, they are included in the decision making of the church in
areas of how things are done, money spent, etc. I have never seen a
more
humble man than my pastor, or a more godly man. His life speaks much
louder than his words. He is in no way a showman or using the gospel as
a
means of getting gain for himself. He has never been involved in
immorality or scandel, and neither does he condemn others who have been.
But I do think there is a sound warning in scriptures for us to "look
for
fruit" of those who profess to know God. No matter how good the "show"
may
be. I have seen so much over the years. I am sure you have, too. I'm
convinced more than ever that those who really love God are the most
humble
among us, not in any way desirous of "ruling over" or having a
"position"
of "power" or "influence" so much as wanting to protect, heal, lead and
free those who are bound by the oppressive religious or political
leaders
who have abused the God-given role of true authority. I'm sure we are
really saying the same thing, I guess my image of women in authority has
been some very abusive, loud and "bossy", proud people who were more
hurtful to the cause of Christ than helpful...I think it is one of the
reasons we have so much confusion of roles, homosexuality and other very
unnatural occurances. I really agree with Sister Co's prophecies, and
that
God is restoring HIS order to the church by raising up MEN who will LEAD
as
JESUS did, those men will not be threatened by any woman who is moving
in
the true annointing and authority that comes from the HOLY SPIRIT (the
dove
has neither claw nor sting nor weapon for the fight)...but I do believe
every woman needs to be "covered" by men, either a pastor or a husband
who
is releasing her, not out there establishing her own "ministry"....these
are my true and deepest concerns and I just wanted to share them with
you.....In His love, Karen
Excerpt from Tim Early
Another example of roots and fruits has to do with the Headship
and Preeminence of Christ. For we are not only the body of Christ,
but Christ the body. Everything in the Christ is to be found
in his body. Unfortunately, we have substituted our Lord's headship
for denominations which are birthed out of carnality as confirmed
in 1 Corinthians 1:10-13; 3:1-4. Denominationalism and sectarianism
finds its root strength in human numbers, the same sin King David
committed as found in 1 Chronicles 21. Such sin was the result
of many lost lives, for to depend on numbers is to depend on
the human merit and strength of others. It is simply finding
your worth, value, and esteem in the strength of frail flesh.
Also, in regards to denominationalism, and non-denominational
denominationalism {get it}, the core values and belief factors
are of utmost concern. For a group can argue over tenets of doctrine,
pitch their tent, later to turn it into a monument. For a monument
is where God was, but a divine movement of the Spirit is where
God the Father now is
Colossians 2:10, 19; Ephesians 1:22-23; 4:3-6, 15
Tim and Theresa Early
Subject:
THE ALCORN REPORT
Inspiration and Information from Pastor Jana Alcorn and various
leadership
resources to assist today's Christian servant in the Move of God!
Proverbs 15:22 NIV -- Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many
advisers they succeed.
A WORD FROM PASTOR JANA ALCORN
Leader, it is not enough to know the "how-to's" of ministry. We must be
be passionate for His Presence. We must make room for Him; in fact, so
much room that there is no longer any room for us. I'd like to provoke
you with a question.
WHAT IF THE LEADERS ACTUALLY GOT HUNGRY?
1. WHAT IF LEADERS GOT HUNGRY AND FOCUSED ON JESUS DURING THE
SERVICES, RATHER THAN TRYING TO DIRECT PEOPLE DURING THE SERVICES?
As leaders, our chief ministry is to the Lord. In Acts 13:2, the Holy
Spirit spoke only AFTER they had ministered unto Him.
"As they ministered to the Lord and fasted....the Holy Ghost said."
2. WHAT IF THE LEADERS GOT HUNGRY AND ACTUALLY FEASTED ON THE LORD
DURING
THE SERVICE RATHER THAN GET ON WITH THE PROGRAM?
I'm sorry, leader, but we can't offer God our sermons. Anyway, we are
not
just to speak about the Lord, but to speak FOR Him! How can you do this
without first taking in Him as the source of our strength!
Everything the "services need" will be the outflow of our feasting upon
Him.
John 6:57 -- As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the
Father:
so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
3. WHAT IF THE LEADERS GOT HUNGRY AND PROVOKED A HUNGER IN THE BODY?
Someone can just talk about chocolate and I want it! Leader, what if
our
hunger provoked the Body of Christ into seeking the Bread of Life! Can
you imagine how this would stir our churches and our ministries? Just
the
smell of something baking makes me want it! How much more does the
actual
substance of it within my reach!
Matthew 5:6 -- Blessed are they which do hunger.....for they shall be
filled!
4. WHAT IF THE LEADERS GOT HUNGRY AND WANTED JESUS MORE THAN TO PREACH
THEIR PREPARED SERMONS?
When we understand that we are not after sermons, but we are after HIM,
then and only then, will our hunger began to be God-directed, instead of
performance directed!
We may forget sermons, but we do not forget encounters with Him!
When he comes forward, we fall backward.
John 18:6-- As soon as he had said unto them, I am he, they went
backward,
and fell to the ground.
5. WHAT IF THE LEADERS GOT HUNGRY AND CREATED THE ATMOSPHERE IN OUR
CHURCHES FOR THE BREAD OF HIS FACE?
When David got hungry, he went against protocol. He actually went for
the
shewbread (bread of His face.) He did not just look at it; he partook
of
it. But not only did David eat, they that were with him ate also.
Luke 6:3,4 -- And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as
this, what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were
with him; How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the
showbread, and gave also to them that were with him;
We have created atmospheres for man, but where is the one that will
create
the atmosphere for HIM? What IF leaders got hungry......
INSIDE THE SEED
Re 5:12-13 "Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain
to
receive Power, and Riches, and Wisdom, and Strength, and Honour, and
Glory, and Blessing. And every creature which is in Heaven, and on the
earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are
in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and Honour, and Glory, and Power, be
unto Him that sitteth upon The Throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and
ever."
If His will is to be done in earth as it is in Heaven, then our worship
must be intense and we must be given to the Worship of the Lord
continually.
LEADERSHIP LINES
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow.
The well-run ministry is not a battlefield of egos.
Good leadership consists of showing average people how to do the work of
superior people.
The new leader is a facilitator, not an order giver.
Leadership is action, not position.
If you do not know where you are going, every road will get you nowhere.
It takes more than an anointed sermon to lead the people of God.
Excellence is not an accomplishment. It is a spirit, a never-ending
process.
PROPHETIC WORD
I am calling you to go on. There are some things that must be severed
and
some that must be added. Some of this will happen as part of this
process
and you will not have to be directly involved. Other things, you will
be
a part of.
It is time to move into My vision for the House. No longer will you be
bound by other's expectations, but you will move to meet Me, says the
Lord. Deal with this in a different way for relationships change, says
the Lord.
Let My processes take effect. Allow it to happen. The move will bring
My
favor and the heavens will be open unto you. No longer will you be held
back by the invisible shields that have been over you, but you will
approach Me in clarity and you will hear Me in clarity and you will have
the confidence of knowing My will. This is not haughtiness, says the
Lord, but overwhelming confidence that you know Me and that you have
heard
My voice.
So now, follow, says the Lord and I will be with you!
the newsletter from antithesis
In the first century, no Christian would dare
take the position or title of sole ruler,
overseer, or pastor of the church.
We Christians today, however,
are so accustomed to speaking of "the pastor"
that we do not stop to realize that
the New Testament does not.
There is only one flock and one Pastor (John 10: 16)
alexander strauch, biblical eldership
If we have the worldıs mentality of wanting the foremost place,
we are not qualified for Christian leadership.
This mentality can lift us into ecclesiastical leadership
or fit us for being a big name among men,
but it unfits us for real spiritual leadership.
To the extent that we want power we are in the flesh,
and the Holy Spirit has no part in us.
Christ put a towel around Himself
and washed His disciplesı feet (John 13:4).
We should ask ourselves from time to time,
"Whose feet am I washing?"
francis schaeffer, doing the Lord's work in the Lord's way
And they love the place of honor at banquets,
But do not be called Rabbi
jesus, in the gospel according to matthew, chapter 23
.........................................................
Biblical Leadership
In complete obedience to Christ's teaching on humility and brotherhood,
the first Christians and their leaders
resisted special titles, sacred clothes, chief seats, and lordly
terminology to describe their community leaders.
When establishing churches, Paul never ordained a priest or cleric to
perform the church's ministry. When he
established a church, he left behind a council of elders chosen from
among the believers to jointly oversee the local
community (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5).
Obviously that was all he felt a local church needed. Since the local
congregation was composed of saints, priests,
and Spirit empowered servants, and since Christ was present with each
congregation in the person of the Holy
Spirit, none of the traditional religious trappings such as sacred
sites, sacred buildings, or sacred personnel
(priests, clerics, or holy men) were needed. Nor could such be
tolerated. To meet the need for community
leadership and protection, Paul provided the non clerical, elder
structure of government -- a form of government
that would not demean the Lordship of Christ over His people or the
glorious status of a priestly, saintly, body of
people in which every member ministered.
..................................................................................................
The New Testament provides a consistent example of shared leadership as
the ideal structure of leadership in a
congregation where love, humility, and servanthood are paramount. When
it functions properly, shared leadership
requires a greater exercise of humble servanthood than does unitary
leadership. In order for an eldership to
operate effectively, the elders must show mutual regard for one another,
submit themselves one to another,
patiently wait upon one another, genuinely consider one another's
interests and perspectives, and defer to one
another. Eldership, then, enhances brotherly love, humility, mutuality,
patience, and loving interdependence --
qualities that are to mark the servant church.
..................................................................................................
I believe that churches today desperately need a revival of love,
humility, and the servant spirit.
Such a revival must begin with our leaders,
and biblical eldership provides the structure
through which leaders learn to work together
in mutual love and humility.
Since the eldership represents a microcosm of the whole church, it
provides a living model of loving relationships
and servanthood for the whole body. Thus, leadership by a plurality of
elders ideally suits the humble-servant
church.
--Alexander Strauch, from Biblical Eldership
http://www.discerningreader.com/books/0936083115.html
..................................................................................................
Since the New Testament plainly sets forth a leadership structure, why
don't we simply follow it?
In my recent conversation with Jack Crabtree, we noted that there seems
to be an Evangelical "disconnect"
between the confessed stand on Biblical authority and how the Christian
faith is actually practiced. This comes into
sharp focus when we ask, "How ought we structure our Christian
fellowships?" As Alexander Strauch
demonstrates, the Bible's teaching is quite plain. (But you have to
actually READ the Bible -- not just give
lip-service to it!)
..................................................................................................
Senior Pastor needed for Bible based Church. Impressive and charismatic
leader needed to oversee every detail of the church. Will provide most,
if not all, teaching. Will hand pick staff of assistant pastors as well
as board of elders. Should people in the church disagree with his
leadership, they are free to leave.
..................................................................................................
setting things in order
an urgent call to restore biblical leadership
alexander strauch
For many people, the issue of church government (also referred to as
church polity, church structure, church organization, church order, or
the ministry) is as irrelevant an issue as the color of the church pews.
Indeed, for many people the color of the church pews inspires greater
interest! To these people, the organizational structure of the church
really doesn't matter. The average church member's disinterest in how
the church is governed needs to be challenged, however. Church
government is an extremely practical and theologically significant
issue. So I ask those of you who have not thought much about this
subject, or have assumed that it is unimportant, to consider the
following points.
Some of the worst havoc wrought to the Christian faith has been a direct
result of unscriptural forms of church structure. Only a few centuries
after the apostles' death, for example, Christian churches began to
assimilate both Roman and Jewish concepts of status, power, and
priesthood. As a result, church government was clericalized and
sacralized. Under Christ's name an elaborately structured institution
emerged that corrupted the simple, family structure of the apostolic
churches, robbed God's people of their lofty position and ministry in
Christ, and exchanged Christ's supremacy over His people for the
supremacy of the institutional church.
Furthermore, church organizational structure matters because structure
determines how people think and act. Ultimately, structure determines
how things are done in the local church. I find it ironic that some
evangelical leaders in America are more concerned about the structure of
the United States government than the structure of the local church. I
doubt that many evangelical leaders would say, "It doesn't matter how
the U.S. government is structured as long as there is some form of
leadership." Yet, that is precisely what I have heard some evangelical
leaders say about the local church
Jay,
While in my quiet closet the other night, the Lord has allowed me to
write
this. I am not a prophet, and don't claim to be one. But I am highly
interested in the unity and forward motion of His Church. The word is
out in
the world that the Apostles/apostolic people/movement is and has been
around,
AND is making its present mark on the Church to prepare it for Him.
There is
too much time being spent on talking about the Apostles and their means
and
ways, and no time in "just doing it". There is too much time/talk spent
on
trying to discern and learn and point and discredit, etc. Jesus says to
let
the tares grow with the wheat until the harvest. We are not the reapers.
We
are to water and plant ONLY. Our Lord reserves that for Himself. Yes, we
are
to unify, correct, rebuke, set in order, teach, lead, build, tear down.
Nowhere in the Word does it say for us to be the harvesters. Let the
Apostles
do what they are called to do and let's not put them in a box or bind
them up
into religious structures. Smith Wigglesworth would probably be in an
insane
asylum today for his methods, as well as many others. Yes, we must be
careful
of false doctrine of apostles not called, but they end up revealing
themselves and condemned by their own words anyway. If the Apostle or
Prophet
is not received by a denomination or local Body, so be it. They have
their
reward.
Much of the stuff written today on Apostles is repetitive and
contradictory
from one writer to the next. This is not a good beginning for this
office to
be released in the Church. There are many who have been operating in
this
office for 10 years and are not "officially" recognized by many
denominations. So what? Eventually they will. The work of the Lord is
being
done. The Church is growing. It is a fact that the original 12 did not
operate the same way. There are different administrations, etc. This has
really been heavy in my Spirit lately. The more I read, the more I
foresee
more squabbling over who is right. Let the Lord separate the wheat from
the
tares.
May 29, 2000
God is Truth!!!!
by Doug Fortune
Jim
{The Gospel of the Kingdom, Changing our world through Dominion}
by Tim and Theresa Early
Here we are referring to "Apostolic Destiny," where the church
is headed with the apostolic dimension. Such destiny is the reclaiming
of our cities, nations, and world through the dominion mandate.
In this, we are overthrowing strongholds in the heavens, and
over geographical territories. Here, we are declaring Jesus as
Lord over all.
Hebrews 6:5
1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Revelation 11:15; Hebrews 12:27-28
Daniel 7:1...For all nations to serve it...
Micah 5:2; Isaiah 9:7; Psalms 24:7-10; Isaiah 2:2; Micah 4:1-3
Daniel 7:27...Given to God's people...Other nations and kingdoms
shall obey it...
Matthew 11:12; Hebrews 12:22; Matthew 21:43; 1 Peter 2:9; Romans
14:17;
And the light shines in darkness, and the darkness comprehended
{to take eagerly, seize, posses} it not. John 1:5 {John 3:19
- Ephesians 4:9-10}
tearly1@pdq.net
http://www.apostlesandprophets.org
Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets School of Ministry International
Following Jesus
Date:
Mon, 15 May 2000 17:49:59 -0400
From:
Gary L Rose
To:
jay@latter-rain.com
Brian Tanguay
God has placed more experenced Christians over us to teach us. We must
be
submissive to them if God has called us to be under theis athority. All
throughout the bible you can see this example. Yes, Jesus is the
ultimate
leader, but we have human leaders God put in our life in order to teach
us
what we need to know. If you refuse to come under that spiritual
athority,
then you aren't showing a Christ-like attitude. Therefore, you aren't
living for Christ like you should. We have enough vigilante Christians
in
the world. We don't need any more. I will admit, there are many examples
out there where the leadership has went overboard. But if this is the
reason why you feel that you don't have to submit to athority, you are
as
wrong as they are. I ask you to dig in your bible a little deeper, and
you
will see that God has reasons for people to submit to another.
In Christ's faithful service,
enoch777
tearly1@pdq.net
http://www.apostlesandprophets.org
Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets
School of Ministry International
What if Leaders Got Hungry? - by Pastor Alcorn
Date:
24 May 2000 02:56:45 -0000
From:
"Trumpet Wind Ministries Prophetic Email List"
May 23, 2000
05.07.00 -- biblical leadership
---------------------------------------------------------------
one body and one Head (Col. 1: 18)
one holy priesthood and one great High Priest (Heb. 4:14ff.)
one brotherhood and one Elder Brother (Rom. 8:29)
one building and one Cornerstone (I Peter 2:5ff.)
one Mediator, one Lord.
Jesus Christ is Senior Pastor,
and all others are His undershepherds (1 Peter 5:4).
and the chief seats in the synagogues,
and respectful greetings in the market places,
and being called by men, Rabbi ["Teacher"].
for One is your Teacher,
and you are all brothers
Thanks Jay. Correction/Comments welcome.
love in Jesus, Joseph
Latter Rain Discussion Archives
The Lord has given us the grace to reconcile the children to their Fathers
As One Body
Issue Oriented Discussion Newsletter
Index | Search This Site | Aristide.Org | The Latter Rain | Babylon the Great | The Kingdom | The Nicolaitans | Jezebel
The Baptism With the Holy Ghost | The Grand Delusion | World Trade Org | Liberation Theology | Jay Atkinson | Alphabetical Index