War With Sodom - The Slimepits
June 14, 2006
And it came to pass in the days of Amraphel king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of nations; that these made war with Bera king of Sodom, and with Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, and Shemeber king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela, which is Zoar. All these were joined together in the vale of Siddim, which is the salt sea......
And the vale of Siddim was full of slimepits; and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled, and fell there; and they that remained fled to the mountain. Genesis 14:1-3, 10.
June 14, 2006
Christians believe in the restitution of all things before we see our final days in this age. If this is a restoration of all that the devil has stolen from us, then our purity and innocence should be restored and brought to maturity before the kingdom age. We are to be a Holy Bride without spot or wrinkle. There is a war in heaven for the souls and spirits of all held captive in the depths of sin here on earth and it is especially intense among believers. To join in that warfare against the sins of Sodom, we must take the battle to where they are, in the slimepits.
I would like the latter rain list to respond to me on the several issues we need to face to do warfare against the Sodomites of today and her daughters. We should be open for anything but jumping into dark slimepits tends to pull us farther, tread carefully. Here are a few points we might consider:
Sin is sin, so call it sin.
Any sexual partnership outside of marriage is living in sin.
Homosexuality is a sin.
All kinds of sodomy is a deviation of the sex act.
Jesus did not single out certain sexual sins, even lust of the eyes was as serious as doing it.
Any church who joins homosexuals in marriage is an apostate church given to their own devices.
Pornography and masturbation to a married man is cheating on his wife.
Marriage was sanctified by God between a man and a woman, we can't legitimize a deviation contrary to God and nature.
God gives us a choice, either life or death. With that choice comes the freedom to sin. Don't turn this into gay bashing, we need to identify and denounce sin. The sinner receives knowledge and a new saint responds with repentance. We are to be blameless in the sight of God as a wicked and adulterous generation is exposed. There must be change now, that takes action. People of faith and love are the first in line to champion human rights and civil liberties here to establish justice and protect freedom.
You may think that for things to clean up, Jesus must come first to make the war. Well maybe He needs us to do that. We need to come clean and we need to protect our loved ones from a sexual onslaught. Is there a fight in that? Is it winnable? Maybe we can clean up some slime. We may just want to share our experiences and thoughts, we have all been exposed in some way with these things. Get back to me at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Regarding The King of Babylon..I say, bring it on,,the sooner it happens the sooner the bride will be taken away..
In my opinion, the Body of Christ, the Church, the Family of God, Those that have a relationship with Christ in NO WISE will He cast out..We serve a God that is crazy in love with His children and is chasing them as a jealous lover,,,
The main job of the Church / His kids / His Ministry is this
#2 Make Disciples and
#3 Love one another.
In a nut shell,,,,Hey That's it...all we have to do is just fall in love with Jesus,,,hay,,I know,,,that sounds way too simple. I have study the word of God for many years and Bro,,,I'm tellen ya,,,it is really that simple..
I am all too informed about The King of Babylon and the Mark & the Name and the Number of the Beast. and what happens to those who partake of that system...This should not be the main focus of the call we have in Christ Jesus,,,I have a feeling you already know that...,,
There was the time of the Jews,,,and for the most part,,,they missed it
Now it is the time of the Gentiles and they too are judging themselves unworthy of eternal life..
Bro,,let it happen!!
Pray it in!!
Let The King of Babylon come
and lets get out of here and go home and receive that celestial body that's wanting for us. But in the meantime let's #1 fall in love with Jesus # 2 Make disciples and last but not least #3 love one another..
PS: I would be careful who you are calling The Church of Babylon. I recall a phophet said to God I am the only one serving you Lord and all have went their own way..Do you remember the reply of the Lord??
A clean beast will chew it's cud. Bro which beast are you?
Mind sets are hard to break. It's like ceament, thoroughly mixed and set in. God is breaking up the fowl ground, He is the one shaken heaven and earth, that's not our job. we just need to take care of our own garden...He is de vine we are de branches,,and we all know in part...I do love your ferver for the lord. I can tell you love His word and His ways. But just to reiterate,
Bro,,let it happen!!
Pray it in!!
Let The King of Babylon come
and lets get out of here and go home and receive that celestial body that's wanting for us. But in teh mean-time let's #1 fall in love with Jesus # 2 Make disciples and last but not least #3 love one another..
In my opinion
Here's something that will blow your mind,,God loved the King of Babylon. The most wicked person that ever was,,and in the end that ungodly, wicked king, that made unicks of the best of God's choosen. That Great King of Babylon finally chose to serve the living God. Now if that isn't love,,wow,,The Father of lights reached down His hand to the most wicked king that ever was and brought that man into relationship with Himself BY His power...I don't know about, but let me tell you, That blows my mind...That's the love of God..He will rain upon who He chooses to rain upon...
Be careful when you say in your heart,,,"We have the edge on the word of God" or "If you don't partake of our table you won't get fed"
Hog wash,, God is the one that does the feeding of His children,,,Those that are hungy and thrusty He will lead and feed and take care of His Folk for He is the Good Shepard. And He is raising up shepards by His power,,,sorrey I get a little excited at times and it is not my intent to bring an offence..
Anyway, I hope this was not a waste of breath or time,,,,you do have some valid points it's just the focus..I encourage you to try the 3 step dance, only the Spirit of God is the partner,,,and the builder,,and the teacher,,,and the guider...we ought never forget this so HELP US LORD!
Your brother (IN) Christ
You are absolutely right, He will come, it is foretold. Regardless of how these things will happen, they will happen. And you are right that I should be careful but my calling is different than yours.
Those that will be cast out are the luke-warm church. Revelations 3 is literally spewing or vomit.
God may love George Bush but the abyss is promised to the beast and the false prophet.
When these things do happen, they will be allowed by God's choice but the man of sin will understand the mysteries and rule through flattery and deceit.
We as children of the day must abide in the call wherein we are called. there are general calls to all of those who are His and then direct calls.
The Lord is setting up a "TESTED STONE" and there are 2 beds in the land. A small bed which there is room for only one, that one is Christ and His ways and then there is another bed , a big bed which there room for all. This bed is the bed one the whore is making ready. the Spirit of God is making ready His children of the day and the Spirit of this world is making ready the children of darkness and the children of the night.
I know you enjoy and love the word of God. So, Jay, with knowing this I am send you some joy in His word.
"See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed. 17I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line; hail will sweep away your refuge, the lie, and water will overflow your hiding place. 18Your covenant with death will be annulled; your agreement with the grave will not stand. When the overwhelming scourge sweeps by, you will be beaten down by it. 19As often as it comes it will carry you away; morning after morning, by day and by night, it will sweep through." The understanding of this message will bring sheer terror. 20The bed is too short to stretch out on, the blanket too narrow to wrap around you. 21The LORD will rise up as he did at Mount Perazim, he will rouse himself as in the Valley of Gibeon--to do his work, his strange work, and perform his task, his alien task. 22Now stop your mocking, or your chains will become heavier; the Lord, the LORD Almighty, has told me of the destruction decreed against the whole land.
See how the faithful city has become a harlot! She once was full of justice; righteousness used to dwell in her--but now murderers! 22Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water.
4all because of the wanton lust of a harlot, alluring, the mistress of sorceries, who enslaved nations by her prostitution and peoples by her witchcraft. 5"I am against you," declares the LORD Almighty. "I will lift your skirts over your face. I will show the nations your nakedness and the kingdoms your shame. 6I will pelt you with filth, I will treat you with contempt and make you a spectacle. 7All who see you will flee from you and say, `Nineveh is in ruins--who will mourn for her?' Where can I find anyone to comfort you?"
Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon!" 8For this is what the LORD Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you--for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye-- 9I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them.A Then you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me.
10"Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the LORD. 11"Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you. 12The LORD will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13Be still before the LORD, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling."
Yes Jay, there are two kingdoms being built and these two kngdoms has two cups and two beds, but this is the mystery, the greatest mysetry of all time,,Christ (IN) you. Two dwelling places..One is (IN) Christ the other is (OUT) of Christ two words (Yes) to Christ and (No) to Christ,, two roads. too much to say and little time to do it,, we must follow the call of the commission of Christ,,GO OUT and Make ___________. Yes it is these are the last days and the hour of the Lord is at hand...the wheat and the tairs..
Simply put, this news letter - of 1.8 - was good and right on!
Pastor Franklin A. Alvey
Emmanuel Temple Church
The word of God says it will happen George or a John we known not. What we do know is the word of God says in Rev.13.7 it was given unto him or granted him and if anyone has a ear to hear.This is a part of God's will the authority was given unto the beast by our heavenly father.What we need to ask ourselves is why?and what is God's will for me during this time?What do we do?Patience and faith of the saints
Nehemiah dealt with the usury system in chapter 5. we must fight the good fight. we must continue to love and struggle to proclaim the truth. No one knows the day and hour. we must stir the entire assembly (all of the people) to action and demand our God given Christian based civil government repent of all of its evil. there is no place to run Christians have turned the other cheek all that we can. we must take a stand and fight for and demand repentance.
In Jesus name Amen!!!!!!!
Noone knows when the second coming of Jesus will be. But I find that there are signs proving that his coming may be close.All anyone has to do is turn on the t.v.and watch the nightly news.-There are diseases,destruction,horrible crime,terrorism, it goes on and on.in your opinion do you see this also.? things will get much worse am I correct? I am eager for his return but at the same time I am afraid. For the reason of my children. They are small and do not understand what we do. I have a question that I do not know if anyone has the answer. In the book of Revelations there are 7 seals. At the year we are at,how many of these seals have been broken? In your experience and in you're understanding how many seals have been broken and at what point are we at? I truely appreciate any response that you might offer.
Maureen Young-a believer in Pennsylvania.
The signs are everywhere that He is close. There are also many things left to do, who knows how much time that will be. I do not believe that we have entered into the latter rain yet, we are still in apostasy.
I felt in my spirit that we entered into the first seal a few years ago and said so. I felt that we may have been into the second seal in 2003. I could be way off, just feelings I get. It's not written in the clouds, going to be hard to tell.
Hi Jay and all,
It was good to see a newsletter from you in my mailbox. So far I haven't seen much discussion about the psychology of Bush or others mentioned as the possible Antichrist. Since the last newsletter a couple of beloved and well-meaning US Christians have wanted to warn me that Prince Charles is the Antichrist and I need to watch that space. I couldn't help but laugh. He doesn't seem to have it in him.
I feel the psychology of the politically involved high or low-profile Christian is important because the mind is such a "sacred" place to us: we will fight all who want to usurp our right to our own thinking. That sounds right and proper and democratic, but what if our thinking is prideful and deluded? What if we believe what we do is right but in fact it is evil? Would we at some level cease to know?
I believe George Bush is that kind of deluded psychology that engages in evil while promoting a public face of goodness. Mind you, by that definition the political world is full of that same psychology: it is a prerequisite to much that is political activism seemingly. But I believe it is precisely that psychology that is primed and ready to receive a major demonic occupation, which is the Antichrist. And already there are antichrists plural, as we know.
The same psychology that promotes a condition of public personal whiteness while secretly engaging in dark deeds is that which has no present experience of genuine conviction, either because it never had it or because it cast it away. It has chosen to turn away from the truth. Jesus saw the same thing in the Pharisees and told them plainly, their father is the devil. So here is a dividing line already, the deluded psychology is one that chose the facade of goodness, while secretly engaging in evil. It chooses to have no consciousness of its own sin, because it likes the facade which permits it to continue. It prefers the darkness to the light.
As I read the responses, I kept seeing that subject of sexuality surfacing into the debate, and wondered why. Why have the Bush supporters whipped up a frenzy over homosexuality and abortion like they have? Is it because they are all sexually clean and obedient Christians themselves? I think not, but they would like us to think they are. Same psychology, deluded. If they point fingers enough at everyone else, it permits them neatly to evade personal accountability for whatever sexual deviation, perversion or abuse they practice themselves.
How do I know this? Because I have had a close look at myself. I stumbled into a documentary on the history of pornography recently on TV. Unable to press the button, some of the scenes I saw were powerfully erotic, and I understood why folk get hooked. But there is that choice here isn't there.....either you point fingers at the TV company and the film makers and the porn addicts and the peddlers of porn....or you slink away realizing that your own sexuality is not so squeaky clean either. Let he who is without sin....
So what am I trying to get at here. It is that the human race would need to be sufficiently deluded for the Antichrist to come. The Light reveals we have no grounds for confidence in the flesh. Delusional thinking goes one step further by placing the sin upon everyone else but ourselves. The devil has already been at work, but he isn't stupid: he isn't going to spring anything if he can't get away with it, and he can only get away with it if the minds and the hearts of men have been corrupted to a great extent by delusion, deceit, falsehood. I believe he waits for just that perfect time of peaking corruption in the church in order to reap the fatal crop in apostasy, satan's harvest of the falling away.
Has that time come I wonder? Maybe it has and the Antichrist is already here and it is George Bush. Legalists can't forever quote that he hasn't been revealed yet because the Bible says so: one day he will be revealed for sure, will that make the Bible wrong? obviously not.
There is a difference presumably between when the Antichrist comes, and when he is revealed. He could be slap in front of us and we just don't know it. Depends on our thinking, depends on whether we have that deluded psychology that hides from the light and believes what enables us to get away with the most, or whether we want the Truth, whether we are determined to have the mind of Christ.
Scary times, aren't they.
No thank you,Jay
I absolutely am ambivolent about George Bush. I neither think of him as any more or less godly than Bill Clinton or you.I refuse to judge him. I am of the belief that only Our Father in Heaven is able to look into any mans heart. George is neither more or less sinful than I am from my point of view. As far as the antichrist .He will be revealed by his deeds. They will be so great that the whole world will be willing to follow him as a last resort. Until he says he is a god. George certainly doesn't fit that mold.
I appreciate your efforts but I am not interested in more of it at this point.
I will join your group at yahoo groups ,lirk and read but that is it. I believe the Bible truth about the latter rain but am not at all of the belief that it has begun. I won't either until things get much ,much worse for us in the western world societies. When the churches start to fill up again. when people are willing to turn to Our Father because there is no other place to turn. Something terrible has to set the world into chaos first I believe. This is my feeling. People will seek to fill their lamps with oil.
Thank you for saying this. Keep it up!
I have a question? and just go with me for a minute in parapharasing: God allowed certain kings to be placed in postion of authority and he gives authority to those who are the governing ones over our bodies whether it is the United States, Congress, or Senate, State Governments. But is mention in the new testament we are to pray for those whom are placed in charge of us and are the governing bodies over the people, it insist we pay our taxes, give to caesar what belongs to him and give to God what belongs to him. Now I have heard alot on the subject of G.W. Bush being the antichrist and so much derogatory info that went along with that. But I do believe, God our Creator and Father put him in this position of authority for a reason, not just being the anitichrist, but to bring the body together to pray and fast before the Lord and bring about a supernatural Holy Spirit Filled Change within the governing states and nation. I sometimes believe we missed the mark on precieving the mind of Christ, when are minds are not in sync with our Father. We are sitting ourselves in the judgement seat, when that seat does not belong to us, it belongs to God the creator.... So I say this....Let us work on and clean up within our own House before we start dealing with the White House and G.W. Bush, unless we bow the knee and seek our Father's Face and his word on the situation, let us continue as the body of Christ to pray for those place over us in those positions of authority and watch for a powerful move of God within the ranks.
Good question Brendalee
Everything we do is under the will and foreknowledge of God. That does not mean everything we do is God's will for us. We have to make the right decisions and that might as well include submitting to the power here in a country where the people are supposed to have the power and authority. For me, that is the democratic way with the freedom to express our grievances. Legalism holds to the letter and quenches the spirit. Exposing evil is not passing judgment. Judgment is coming but from God alone, understand that He is using others to execute His judgment. Hitler was a bad man, the religious type who would hide behind those scriptures that you are referring to were wrong then as now. Same with the American Revolution. I believe that other countries should be extended the same choice of self determination. Then it was armed revolution, now it is a democratic revolution. As far as the majority of a country is poor, Bush will take democracy away.
We are poles apart with delusions on one side and the mind of Christ on the other. There is this great divide in Christendom, the conservative fundamentalists and the progressives. One will fall and the other will march into the kingdom.
I am not sure that I understand exactly who or what Babylon is, I always believed the Catholic Church was Babylon, but, your statement, I quote, "We are told to get out of Babylon, not reform nor forgive her, only escape or judgment. Babylon will fall and the Antichrist system must be revealed before the time of harvest, now is the time for revival." makes me wonder, Babylon, is Denominational Religion, is it not?
Please give me understanding.
The idea that the Catholic Church is Babylon is what the Protestants teach is all. The more regressive denominations still teach it. It is hundreds of years out of place, the Babylon of the end times is a merchant power, militarily and politically as well as religious. Rome may have fit during the Reformation but it was her daughters that make up Babylon today and that includes all denominations. It is more a collective consciousness than an actual place. Some people think it is Jerusalem or Iraq but only one fits and that is the one riding on the back of the beast here in America.
Sounds on point to me...Thanks for your insight and truthfulness. Please send more insight because it is confirmation for what I'm Receiving from God Almighty.
Deric L. Williams
Thanks Jay for your thoughts
This is very interesting and I am still looking for Christ's return as we all should. I think about it at some point in almost each and every day. I have spent hours, sometimes in a day, almost everyday reading everything I can get my hands on about the world's affairs and how they relate to the end times. I really don't want to be caught unawares.
I do have a couple of questions, please? I visited bible.com to find the scripture that prophesied that the anti-Christ would be a beautiful and charismatic man, and also that he would rise from the middle east. I tried multiple key word searches and I am not using the right ones. Do you know where these references are?
Also, please forgive me, but somehow I don't see beauty or the charisma in George Bush. At the same time, I am not encouraging anyone to rely on him at all. I encourage folks to pray for him, as we are instructed to pray for all our leaders and high ranking officials. He is just a man, and is so controversial and disliked, that I am hesitant to believe that he is the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ, to my understanding, is going to be someone that the world in general adores. If this is wrong, please show me?
Thanks for helping us all to stay alert and keep focused on Christ's return. That is the goal all Christians should strive for.
As far as scriptures describing the Antichrist as beautiful and charismatic, I don't know of any. I believe I remember that the people of the world will wonder after him. As far as rising from the middle east, that was spread around by teachers that confused the lost tribes with the Jews. One of the early church fathers had taught that the Antichrist would come from the tribe of Dan, they were among the dispersion.
Neocon Christians love George Bush, he is their man to bring righteousness to America and Christian America to the world. They are totally under his spell and devoted to his god. Thanks for bringing it up.
Who is in charge of all things?
I have this thing to say. The word foretells that there would be one who would come proclaiming to be representative of God and that majority would be deceived by his declarations.
When I saw the red states (the Bible Belt) as an indication of the outcome of the election, I saw the prophesy fullfilled. Christians were saying that they were voting a Christian. This was something antithetical to what the word means when it says that only the ELECT would understand the true shepherd's voice.
The irony is that they were happy and celebrating when the bible clearly states that that is what the deceived would be doing.
The Kingdom of God is at hand and its not going to look like the "moral majority". After all, they were the ones who would spare the life of a thief to take Jesus' life.
loong time no hear. i havent heard from you in ages, i was asking the Lord to keep you safe, and hoping in Him you were ok, and look, you send me this, thanks.
our church is getting fired up for false and deceit, our pastor and other speakers are warning us, the time of the false prophet is close, and then the false peace, then the antichrist shows his true colours. much deceit is coming, and we will become the enemy because we will not agree with him and his tricks.
sad, but true, and a little exciting too, because it means Jesus isnt too far away
stay safe and blessed,
Safe as always, for now anyway. I feel sooner than later on these things, like right now. It is scary, knowing things will get worse. I hear revival coming.
Who are you?
Sounds like a rather shallow view of the end times srry
Brother Jay, Who else besides you believes President Bush is the King of Babylon?
Nice to hear from you. Actually, Bush is the leader of the free world. Except for Babylon herself, most of the world worships another god than he does. So I would say that probably most of the world would agree that Bush is the current King of Babylon.
Here is part of a letter of support I got on that other issue that explains it better than I:
"As chairman of a British registered Christian charity supporting Haitian Christians in the battle against poverty and injustice, I would like to assure you that not all British people agree with the American system of empire building which is currently threatening human rights all over the world--especially the two-thirds world who live below the poverty line. Our prime minister, Tony Blair, represents only a minority of the British people as he obediently follows his master, George W, into any situation he commands, like the lapdog that he is...."
Interesting, I was just doing an online search with Bush and Antichrist as key words. When I started this some time ago, there were only a few and now there are thousands of sites, blogs, discussion groups and news articles that think nothing of putting Bush and Anti-Christ in the same sentence. Pope John Paul 2 even knew that we are in the end times and knew that Bush could be the Antichrist. Babylon is in the dark.
Thanks for staying in touch.
Jay, my friend,
Most Bible Scholars believe the anti-christ (the beast) will be from the Middle East not
from Texas..It's not likely that Israel will sign a peace treaty with an american, in my opinion which doesn't amount to much.
Have you been spinning your wheels about Bush all this time ? Where have you gotten and where are you going with this agenda? I'd like to know, really......
Great questions. There was discussion in the early church that the Antichrist would be from the tribe of Dan. Tertullian's time probably. We have different sources is all. When Jeroboam led the revolt of the northern tribes and established the Kingdom of Israel, Dan was one of the tribes among the diaspora after the Assyrians came in. This makes the tribe of Dan one of the lost ten tribes, not Jewish as in the present day Israel. This is where rumor and word of mouth "scholarship" comes in that the kingdom of Israel is Jewish. You mention "most" scholars. I have seen a few, can you mention one that you are referring to?
The Bible records the tribe of Dan as a sea faring people and Homer tells of the Danoi who settled in Greece. Some Jews claim descent to the tribe of Dan but that is still of the dispersion, not of the tribe of Judah. Also in Ethiopia. There is speculation that they may have sailed around Europe and intermingled as the Dani, Danish/Germanic peoples, Bush's ancestors.
As far as spinning my wheels, I have rather done nothing over the Bush issue. I have been spending my time expanding my business in getting people to work and concentrating more on the Aristide site.
As far as agenda, mine is to preserve democracy and if you don't see President Bush dismantling it, then you are not listening to the right people.
As far as the peace treaty, the American President has always been among the signers in peace talks, this has been going on since 1948.
I liked it better when you were focusing on poverty in Haiti, etc.And blistering the USA for failing in supporting who? Aristides? Why on earth did you ever get involved in politics? This isn't a copout but I tend to remember 'facts' rather than who wrote them so I can only offer you Jack Heyford & Arthur Katz when it comes to present day Israel as well as some Jewish history..Katz's a good source...He has a book out entitled "The Prophetic Call" you'd find very informative...Heyford is editor of the Spirit-filled Bible, right? As far as the tribe of Dan they were of the northern tribes and the tribe of Judah was of the southern tribes who swallowed up the tribe of Benjamin. The southern tribes didn't go into captivity for 150 years later than the northern tribes..The Babylonian Captivity broke Israel of idolatry...But why are we into the ancient history of Israel? Not being a historian, I'd be at a loss. I agree Bush and Rice (and others) are leading Sharon down the primrose path to distruction apparently BUT only the Sovereign God will have the outcome He has planned will be fulfilled...would you agree?.. Nice talking to you, Jay...
Another day, Shalom,
Yes, I do agree. As far as Haiti, this reveals more than anything else in the world today, the evil intentions of George Bush and the darkness of the USA in not caring what is happening just off our coast and the darkness of thinking that Bush is for democracy. I am not involved in politics but I used to be.
There is a silent hush among many true prophets and a pretentious outcry from the false ones.
A true statement in my opinion.
When politics move into the pulpit it is time to clean out the pulpit. The local Church that I am a member of has not done that. To date that is where I want to invest my time and tithes.
I look forward to hearing more from you.
God bless you,
I am thinking the same thing about certain prophets that preach Bush as a pulpit. I remember good ones in the prophetic not that many years ago that did not preach politics until Bush came along, then blindness set in. No problem with me, just disassociate. A lot of damage being done however.
You sound like Howard Dean and the rest of the liberals. I saw the ultimate liberal on GMA this morning, Hillary.
Take me off your list immediately. I don't need your kind of garbage.
Charles S. Provost, Sr.
Actually, I have never referred to myself as a liberal and think of myself more in the progressive community on all that, I am a social democrat. Don't know what your idea of liberal is though. I think my Christian life should include some liberality but you seem to throw it around like a dirty word. Maybe you could share some more, since you are an evangelist and all.
I read the article on our president today. I also read some of the post concerning him. I don't believe he is the antichrist for the main reason of most countries hating him. I believe that the antichrist is supposed to seem as if he is bringing peace to the world and everyone loving him for it. Since most other countries are either warry of him or hate him then I don't think he fits the bill. However I do believe he is paving the way for the antichrist in that it shows how easy our Christian brethren can be decieved. It's scary when all someone has to do is claim to be a Christian to get votes. Many people voted for him on his supposed Christian morals, but I haven't seen him do anything christian like accept take responsibility for the Katrina response disaster. I know people who voted for him because of his veiws on gay marriage and abortion, but I haven't seen him do anything with this since he has been in office. I believe he mentioned those beliefs just to get votes.
Satan wants to deceive christians. He already has everyone else until they get to know Christ, so do you really think he is going to make choosing our leaders for their good morals easy? He is the great deciever. It would be too obvious for Satan to openly be against Christianity. If this were so, many of us Christians could pin point the evil one easy and be safe. If Satan decieves most Christians then there will be hardly anyone to bring Christ into peoples lives and he would win. We need to stop listening to our leaders talk and automatically trusting words without doing our research and looking at how they treat people they don't know and what bills they have passed or tried to get passed before. We have a great thing called C-Span. I think people need to watch their senators and government in action (or none action) more to really get a look at their characters. It seems people are too lazy to keep up with what bills their governments are passing and learning what are in these bills. They can be sneaky. if they can't get a bill passed on it's own they will add it to another so that people can't refuse it. We had a Bill pass not too long ago that was about new Id cards or something, but the news only had a 10 min segment on it and I didn't even get to hear anything about it before they voted on it. I have heard many people say that the new ID's you would have to show even when you bought stuff, but I'm not sure. They aren't coming out with the new ID's until 3 years from now. That is when the new law will be in place and everyone will have to get them.
Anyway my point is that Bush has shown to me that the way is being paved for the end times and it is very close. I don't know exactly when, but close. Things are going fast to globalization and heard the new German leader mention globalization three times in her address to the press. Angela and Bush had a meeting and news conferance this week. it was interesting. It seems Bush is getting along with Germany's new leader. All I know is that Bush hasn't made it any easier for our family to live. Or done anything to stand up for us. I wish he would focus on our domestic issues a bit more. My husband pays out the hinny for health care for us, but still end up with a couple hundred dollar bills when we see the Doc. It's hurting us financially. Bush wants us to save our own money in seperate accounts which we have a seperate med Visa card to save money on for co-pays and stuff, but it takes money out each week that we barely have. It's not much help. It's hard to put money somewhere when you don't have it. My son has pectus exavatum and we can't get the surgery yet because we would still have to pay 20% His surgery is going to be very expensive. Where is Bush to help us? My husband is trying to find a new job just to get better health insurance. We are a poor to barely middle class family. We can't get state help because we make just enough to not get their med help, but not enough to cover what the insurance company doesn't. I feel like no one cares about us in our government especially Bush. If we had good health care like what our government officials have our lives would be much better and healthier. I'm afraid to ever go to the doctor now because the last time I wen't I ended up with a four hundred dollar bill. I need to get my asthma checked so I can get more prescriptions for my inhaler because it is running out, but I'm afraid of the cost and I don't want to eat mac and cheese for a week. That and we stil owe the doctor money. We are slowely paying off our med bills. Enough venting. I should get off now. I just wish people would put more wait on action than words.
God Bless you all
This may be the best response on this issue that I have seen so far. For me, I never said that Bush was the Antichrist, only that if he is not, he sure is acting like it. The problem with health care in America is that is is expensive. To socialize medicine to take care of the poor is anametha to the religion of the image of the beast. If you are rich, no problem, poor people are really suffering here. Where you can really see the hypocrisy of Bush is his dealing with the poor. If he were truly Christian, his service to the poor would reveal Jesus, it doesn't. What is revealed is his dealing with the rich in this country and the outright oppression and denial of human rights in the poor countries of the world. He says he is spreading democracy but that is only for the rich. If a country where the majority is poor elects a leader that favors the poor rather than corporate exploitation, they are met with economic sanctions, the CIA will do what they can to disrupt the economy and democracy is killed.
Thats good, at least we agree on some things.
To use your phrase, in the UK we did aleady "socialize medicine to take care of the poor": it was with the National Health service and we made a fairly good job of it under Labour governments of previous years. But with the dawning of the Thatcher age and Reagan over there with you, it became unpalatable to consider the poor unless it was with a view to their exploitation...and so the National Health Service was dismantled, and in its place "free enterprise".
All the things we ought to be able to expect in these times, such as good health diagnosis and treatment for all, and good education, and a right to be valued whatever our colour or our religion or our social standing or our intelligence: all these things have been fought for and established by the people of the UK through the post-war dawning of the welfare state and thus the dawning of an age of governmental "care".....largely, to be fair, as deep concerns predominantly of the Left Wing.
Imagine therefore, our utter, utter misery, that the labour government whom we all elected to overthrow the moral degradation of our political condition, has been seen to brown-nose around Bush, and squander, and re-exploit, and threaten the rights of the undervalued and underprivileged worldwide.
I almost think that the American people would be proud to own and spawn the Antichrist: it has fame value. But the issue is not all about America, it is Spiritual. It is not even about the fight between left and right, it is Spiritual. Thatcher and Reagan and Bush and all have played their parts in setting the scene for the Antichrist to come. But none of us will stick our necks out and say we know, or we don't know. Because we don't know. Has he come and not yet been revealed? Or has he not come yet?
We know there are already many "antichrists". They gather together in the political arena, like a suppurating boil.
I doubt that Bush is the antichrist. I do believe he is the result of great evil in the economic, political, and so-called Christian sectors. I also believe he is instrumental in ushering in the last days. Babylon is probably an actual location in prophesy but it does also represent a system. Given the ability of Scripture to speak on several different levels at one time, I believe both the location and the system will merge to fulfill prophesy. Armageddon will probably be at the end of the millenium, not at the end of the tribulation.We are moving toward that tribulation time, not the end of the world. Before the beast, anti-christ, and false prophet can be fully revealed, the whole world must fall to this tri-partate power which has invaded the US, destroyed our liberties, created a new kind of slavery, and inundated Christianity with heresy and hatred. We haven't seen that occur yet. Post-modern 'emergent' Christianity must truly merge with other world heresies to form a
one-world religion, one-world government, and one-world economy in order to usher in the tribulation.
Since this site is new to me, I don't know exactly what you mean by Queen of the South. I don't personally believe that there is any salvation for those of us who know the truth aside from the coming of Christ. I do think that everyone in possesion of the truth must, in good conscience, speak out against the lies that have been perpetrated in this country by the so-called 'church', business, and political powers. If we don't, we are as guilty of condoning the genocide and enslavement of our poor, disabled, young, and elderly as the good citizens of Nazi Germany were of condoning the slaughter of Jews and other 'non-compliant' groups by their silence. In doing so we will, of course, be subjected to that same persecution.
I personally do not believe there will be a great revival. If there is, a great 'falling away' will follow almost immediately . Many are called but few are chosen. That is simple fact. Any 'revival' could very well be linked to the heresies that have taken over the church and should be viewed with a jaundiced eye. Today is not the day of restoration. It is the time to gird up our loins, take up our armor, and prepare to be sacrificed.
Thank you for the opportunity to express my viewpoint.
Thanks for the response, this pretty well sums up my feeling on Bush too. We do not have to believe or not believe that Bush is the Antichrist, but we better believe that he is part of the Antichrist system or we fall into the pit that so many in the church have already fallen into, darkness.
The Queen of the south is mentioned in Matthew 12:42 and is only an interpretation connecting it to the prophecies of the last days. The end-time battle of ideologies are not east and west any more, it is north and south.
And thanks for your comment about speaking out.
Hi Mary & All,
I believe that The Bush Administration and "The Religious Right" are setting the stage for some real persecution of The Christian Faith. People will remember these times when "theocracy" loomed overhead like a spectre and they will sanction The Church like no other...How Bush's "divine messages" caused unprecedented loss of life and livelihood...and how Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell were there to help manipulate the masses into a war for the rich....How democracy was dismantled "piece by piece" by slow and insidious erosions of civil liberties. Then a seeming man of peace will emerge and name the culprits-the Christians!...Then religious freedom democracy will surely fall-not with a wimper-but with clamorous applause!
Hi, I agree with this whole heartedly. I am embarrassed to be represented by people who only care about money and power. I find it harder and harder every day to stay Christian because of the way christians are being portrayed nowadays. That and it's hard being interested in other cultures, meeting tons of nice and peacful people, and according to my beliefs knowing they are going to hell for not believing in Christ. I struggle with that a lot. I have met many Hindu's for example who are some of the most peacful people I have ever met. When you want peace and see people in your same religious belief catagory doing otherwise it can be really difficult to stick with it.
Sometimes I feel like giving up because if people who have been following these beliefs for years still can't practice it then what will make me any better in following Christ in the long run.
I quess I'm having difficulties with my beliefs right now. I wish that everyone could worship God in their own way so that so many people wouldn't die. I think Christ did do what he did, but I think people have a hard time relating to him sometimes in other cultures because they can't identify with him. Sometimes I feel like I have to give up many of my families traditions to follow him and it makes me feel disconnected from the ones I love. I have to be honest and say that my family is really close to nature. When I go out side I see God in everything because he created it all. I don't think things are dead and inanimate. I can see the cycles of many things. I have tried disconnecting myself to all of this because working with earth energies is considered witch craft to the christian world. I have tried to ignore it, but it doesn't go away. This week I have been giving in to it and in doing so felt more connected and at peace, but now I'm struggling with the idea of Christ not liking me now. I see him as the greatest healer that has ever walked the face of the earth and God himself to save us from the entrapment of sin, but I wish that it was enough to believe in him spirit wise as God then just his physical appearance as Christ. Then I wouldn't struggle so much with so many peacful good people dying. If every culture in the world became Christian would they still have their traditions? I like other cultures and read about them a lot because they are different. Does believing in Christ mean that everybody has to acknowledge him the same way and act the same way?
I'm just having a hard time. Sorry about all of this. The cultures in this world are so beautiful because of their differences. Does anyone else struggle with these things? I should go before I keep going on and on. I'm just frustrated.--- In
I feel your frustration. I can't remember exactly when I started feeling that same disconnection that you feel but I was having a hard time too and it was years before I could go back to church. Sometimes I feel that I understood when I started studying liberation theology but that only confirmed my feelings and gave me understanding of the disconnection, not when it started. I am trying to think back and can't put my finger on it, I just knew then as I know now that there was something wrong with the church and that I had to do something about it in whatever small way that the Lord would lead me to. I suppose it was when I was baptized in the Spirit and the Lord started teaching me ways that was different from what the church had taught.
An important word is alienation. The lukewarm church is alienated from a spiritual connection because of its compromise with the world with its consumerism, pop culture, media brainwash, pew warming in the church, self-righteous finger pointing, blindness and apathy, these things all have a part in separating us from being led by the Spirit. The important thing to realize here is that we are told to get out of Babylon - this is the Christianity that you feel disconnected from and that is a good thing, a real good thing. Understanding this will bring you closer to dealing with the struggle that you have and give you fresh insight to deal with what the Lord would have you to do. As a Christian, mind you, albeit a true one.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
We are all, in the body of Christ, seeking to know and to serve Jesus better. That being so it is pointless to point fingers at each other as though "we have got it right and they have got it wrong". There are many doctrinal issues and religious habits that could be a point of division among us as Christians: but enough of us believe that God has called us to unity, that it isn't worth fighting over minor things.
We have to draw the line on some matters, like when people come among us and try to make us do things their way, or try to make us conform to their narrow fleshly rules. We know automatically that it isn't the way of Jesus to push and control and drive us anywhere, so we can easily rule it out as not being from the Lord.
That said we can probably make much headway by observing quietly each other's spiritual co-ordinates, and then giving each other space to grow and mature. Guess that means allowing for a few things: we should know we are none of us by any means perfect.
Getting older should be a process of being more comfortable with who we are: that is fairly widely and commonly experienced in human terms alone. It is no less applicable to the body of Christ, that we should be coming to know and be at peace more fully with who we are in Him. We are all in a process of progressive deliverance from all that is dead, and progressive awakening to all that is alive in Jesus.
Adopting strict denominational and doctrinal labels in the body, also religious practices, and identification with certain groups, are similar to the way adolescents adopt modes of dress that are fashionable and speak of their chosen identity. To the more mature they can often look tasteless, with clashing colours and various visual assaults upon the observer, not to mention inappropriate body coverage and little attention to what items exaggerate already bad features.
Growing up we learn how to dress better, and tend to evolve beyond the need to make rebellious and inappropriate statements of who we are (or who we think we are).
Much the same in the Body of Christ, the denominational labels lose their meaning and the doctrinal issues etc. that have previously divided us seem less important than knowing the power of Christ to awaken us, and to deliver us from the people we once were, into our true spiritual identity. If we belong to Jesus, we are part of the body, and entitled to the same love and respect and room to grow as anyone else, regardless of what group or "dress" would seem to identify us.
Hopefully we can help each other towards a place of better confidence in who God has made us to be, by encouraging and loving each other, and building each other up. Rejecting and finger-pointing and ridicule of others is surely not an option for us as Christians, since it only makes for hurts and divisions, contrary to the will of God.
All who have received Jesus, and through Him the forgiveness of sin, have received that spiritual cleansing which permits the Holy Spirit to be given and poured out, entitling us to all the promises we can find in the Bible as true people of God. The church is in this way shown to be multifaceted, but the glory comes from One source: the Lord.
We are not made children of God through man, or through his religious formulae, his theological requirements or his fleshly expectations. We are saved by grace through faith, and that in the power of God, according to His will and our obedient response.
Progressing forward, we will shine more and more like jewels, as we allow the Lord to polish away all the dirt of our former lives and habits and the sins all too easily besetting us, so that the light and the glory of God may be seen through us like the brilliance of sunshine through a diamond.
Work a miracle in our hearts, Lord, and shine through us today.
Much love from Mary
I couldn't agree with you more Mary.
I have seen some contention come and go recently, that is good, I see some real maturity countering it. To me, it doesn't matter much what church we belong to unless there is obvious error, it is love that makes us one with Him. It doesn't matter what day we worship, what does matter if we divide over it. It doesn't matter what we call Easter, as long as it is in the name of Jesus and He is being honored. What does matter is if we argue over these things, it stems from the mistaken notion that we are right and pride taking over instead of Jesus.
I have been thinking about discussing the latter rain. What is it to be among the sons of God? In some circles, it is heresy to have an opinion on it at all. I learned something from this last episode on this and that there is a real distinction between the latter rain revival and the latter rain movement. I have consistently stood up for what happened at the Sharon orphanage and disassociated from any movement. Not from any real knowledge of the subject, just gravitating toward where it conforms to what I think God is teaching me. Wondering if this is a good topic.
Hi! I didn't know how to enter into the discussion you posed about whether of not Bush has the characteristics of the Anti-Christ, so I'm e-mailing you. My thoughts are that it is possible, but I can't really see clearly on that issue. I have been bothered by his past involvement in the Skull and Crossbones group or the Illuminati, and it has raised questions in me as to his commitment to Christ that he claims. Also, having one of the rock groups, I think it was Alice Cooper, or someone like that at the White House func tions, caused me to a take notice. I have seen his followers, mostly those who claim to be Christian, have attitudes that were not of Jesus, and that has bothered me immensely. I could see where that could go. And I have seen belief in a man and a "righteous" way as idolatry, and putting one's faith in the wrong thing which will, in the end, fail. (House built on the sand.) Also, I've seen love of country as possibly become an idol which, will also fail one day and be exposed for what it is. I have not got on that path.
The only one who is going to bring peace is the prince of peace, Jesus, and He will restore all things after the great falling away (which is already happening, but not yet revealed) and the battle of Armageddon. I don't have an eschalogical time line, but I know these things must happen first. I am part of another nation-my citizenship is not here. I am looking for a city whose maker is God. Last election, the Lord told me not to vote-to get out of that system altogether. As everyone was talking about the candidates and getting emotionally excited, I remained an outcast. It really got to my spirit, tempting me many times to get in the flesh about it. but the Lord is training me to follow the path He's laid out for me, and not to look to the right or to the left at other's walk. So, that's all I have to say about that. The man of perdition will be revealed to those who have eyes to see. Even so, come Lord Jesus!
The Lord has given us the grace to reconcile the children to their Fathers
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