Moderating the Extremes

November 2, 2008

Years ago, I shot a lot of pool. I started as a teen playing 14 to 1 call shot where proper English, or putting spin on the ball was essential to setting yourself up for the next shot. Hitting the cue ball high had the effect of propelling the ball forward after hitting the object ball, hitting it low drew it back. Right or left spin would have opposite effects from the object ball and the rail. Each shot is different, the key was in finding that sweet spot, not too far right or too far left.

We each need to find the sweet spot in our own ideologies. Forget about judging your brothers and sisters, I am speaking of you. Extremism has polarized Christianity into opposing views that are led by false gods. We each need to moderate our own extremes and start listening to opposing views with a loving attitude. It is not up to you to decide who is Christian and who is deserving of Hell.

Conservatives and liberals should never have been pitted against each other. Faith and works must work together but extremism has made that impossible. When either extreme interject licentiousness and lasciviousness into liberality, the legalistic reaction supplants true conservatism and they fall from grace. When evangelism and the social gospel became antagonistic instead of co-operating, the Kingdom suffered tremendously. You can be conservative and still extend liberality, you can be liberal and still hold orthodox positions. We must retain what is good from the past, cherish the fundamentals of the faith and still be open to change for the better.

Decisions made at the ballot box will reveal what spirit motivates you. If you vote against all social programs because they are funded from tax dollars, you are motivated by self interest, not the spirit of God. Here in California, same sex marriage is on the ballot. I posit that marriage can only be between a man and a woman, yet it is so-called conservatives that teach that marriage is no longer a sacrament; this comes from historic legalism and extreme fundamentalism, the letter, not the spirit.

Legalists on one side, libertines on the other, always fighting, both sides wrong, neither able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Christianity has failed to bring in many non-believers because of these disagreements. Absurd notions of creation, the denial of Christian freedom, legalism, self-righteousness, puritan ignorance, half truths, judgmental attitudes, exclusivism and so many other excesses found primarily on the extreme right may be the only Jesus people see and they are rightly rejecting a false gospel trying to take the Kingdom by force. Jesus has been used by politicians to promote an unrighteous political agenda. Love, justice and grace has effectively been replaced by favoring the rich over the poor, militarism and the denial of human rights. On the other hand when Christian freedom is used as an excuse to sin, the work of Christ on the cross is exposed to open shame.

You need to prayerfully evaluate yourself, not others. Does your conservatism include being illiberal? Does your liberalism include lasciviousness? Neither is of God no matter how right you think you are.

The dialogue this time reveals such extremes. Comment if you like but read the dialogue first for insight. Perhaps you can think of more extremes that divide the church, there are plenty of them. No one should defend their own selves on this one by continuing to condemn others, but we shall see.


Two years ago, a firmly entrenched and organized Progressive Movement elected enough Democrats to bring them a majority in the American House and Senate. That hasn't happened in a long time.

For the that it had not happened in a long time we should be most thankful.

We were firm then but others not so eager now in ending the occupation of Iraq. What happened after the Dems took over? Nothing but business as usual and now it's more war in Afghanistan and spilling over into Pakistan. This time, the situation is many, many times worse than if we had just left them alone and concentrated solely on the Al Qaeda terrorists from the start. The war in Iraq was not about freedom and democracy, it was about military bases and control of the region to protect U.S. economic interests.

And just what is wrong with protecting the US Economic interests ANYWHERE in the world?
You lefties seem to forget the fact that this country has NOT BEEN HIT AGAIN SINCE 9/11.  Would you feel better had we not gone after the ISLAMO
FASCISTS in their back yard rather than waiting for them to return to our house?  That what you seem to imply.

Who knows who is next but if South America is invaded, it could trigger an immense defeat.

The Democrats and the media on one hand talk about bringing troops home and on the other hand, side with the Republicans for a war without end.

I don't know what news you have been watching.  The Liberal media has been against the Administration each and every step of the way in the war on

Nancy Pelosi is faulted for the apostasy as regards to Bush, in that she essentially reasoned that it would be better to join the Republicans than to oppose them simply out of "bipartisanship." The truth is that it has been most of the Democrats, even the newly elected ones that have defected. As soon as they were elected, the special interests took over, promises were broken and the blood bath continues. I want peace and apparently I am among the majority in this country.

You do not seem to understand that when you deal with hard core zealous ISLAMISTS  there is absolutely no way that you will have peace.  They have
expanded that cult by the edge of the sword ever since the 7th century and they will continue to do so until someone has the balls to stand up and
lead opposition to a degree that will completely annihilate the rotten bastards from the face of the earth.  They are not interested in peace and
they will never be trustworthy when it comes to discussing non aggression. They will work to expand their authority at every conceivable opportunity and by whatever diabolical means they can contrive.

George Bush wants peace too but it is the peace of the graveyard, dead Muslims can no longer defend their homeland.

DEAD MUSLIMS are REALLY GOOD MUSLIMS.  Every one that we send straight to hell without passing GO and collecting their 200.00 is a success for our

No one knows how bad the country has to get for Republicans and Democrats to realize that unrestrained corporate greed, globalization and de-regulation is to blame for our current economic crisis.

We have an economic mess because of FEDERAL GOVERNMENT getting involved in business and fouling things up by making institutions loan money to poor people that have no means to qualify for normal loans thus no money by which to repay their debt.  The LIBERAL DEMOCRATS have been the recipients of the greatest payoffs in the form of campaign contributions and other forms of graft.  Of this I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN, The corrupt government administrators responsible for creating the problem certainly can not be trusted to correct the problem.  The fact that these idiots want to spend nearly a TRILLION, or a MILLION MILLION DOLLARS in pretending to do so is lunacy.  This is a giant leap into further socialism.

Republican Christians are so pre-occupied with abortion and gay marriage finger pointing to recognize the truth in any case.

Honest Christians of any party should stand up and speak out against both the wholesale slaughter of the unborn as well as condemn as does God Almighty the perverse and abhorrent lifestyles of the fagots. Having said that I find it hard to accept that any LIBERAL could claim to be a Christian since the majority of their beliefs which make them liberal in the first place as antithetical to the teachings of Christ in the first place.  How can a true Christian support the notion of aborting babies, and promoting a lifestyle which Gods own word identifies as an ABOMINATION? The two are mutually exclusive of one to the other.

The Democratic Party has to change big time for this country to get out of the hole. Hopefully, this crisis will bring them around this week but it won't be by giving George Bush a blank check to reward Wall Street for their incompetency. Lasciviousness and licentiousness are personal issues between an individual and God. It is collective social action toward the victims of economic crisis and violence in the world that will stay the hand of God.

The DEMOCRATS Are not our answer.  Neither are the Republicans today they are just a lighter version of the Democrats for the most part.  The answer is for America to experience a REVIVAL of her soul and a visit from the Holy Spirit.  Not until she experiences a wholesale return to the word of God and living by his word will there be any hope to turn things around. For those who believe in his Holy Word and the book of Revelation fully realize that this will not be and that we are living in the time when the Lords return is immanent.   It is because I know how the story is going to end that I am at peace even with all of the problems we face since even with the situation as it is GOD REMAINS IN CONTROL!!!

Jesus has not come to condemn the sinners but to overturn the self-absorbed monied interests.

Please cite book chapter and verse for your verbiage in that one.

While Republicans want to bail out the bankers who caused the mess and then pay it with middle class taxpayer money, some Democrats are pushing measures to save homeowners.

Are these the homeowners that took on a debt that they were not qualified to repay?  Are these the homeowners that were allowed to take on debt while being ILLEGAL ALIENS?  Are these the homeowners that bought above their means by getting a SUB PRIME Mortgage knowing full well that in 3-5 years they would be having an interest rate that doubled? If they are I have ABSOLUTELY NO PITTY FOR THEIR BAD JUDGEMENT AND GREED.  Neither should you.

Too bad, so far the Democratic apostasy has run too deep to extend compassion to those who need it the most, we no longer have the moral high ground in the Senate or the House.

Trust me, the Liberal Democrats HAVE NEVER, EVER held any MORAL HIGH GROUND!!!

Instead of the rich absorbing the losses, Bush has redirected them to us when we are already having a tough time. Big surprise. There is divine judgment in all this but don't blame God, it was caused at the ballot box.

Have you ever stopped to think that these problems are in fact DIVINE JUDGEMENT?  I seriously doubt it.

Will this change if we get democratic leadership in the White House next year? We can only hope. It was strong progressive leadership that tipped the scales for an Obama victory in the primaries. He showed wisdom in opposing the war and still says that he want to end it in a vague "phased withdrawal." Most of the country is still clamoring for peace but Obama's decision to choose Joe Biden as his running mate, a militaristic Republican in disguise that helped Bush get us into the Iraq mess to start with, looks like a big mistake.

What are you smoking pal?  Biden a republican?   Democrat Leadership, now there is a true OXYMORON!  The Liberal media being in the bag for Barry Soetoro, (That is Obama's REAL NAME) is what won him his nomination. Hillary got more votes than he did, then the DEMOCRAT PARTY went and COMPLETELY IGNORED THE VOTERS IN TWO STATES.  That party has created its own problems and I am surely enjoying the show.  As for MOST OF THE COUNTRY clamoring for peace, they might like true peace however they the VAST MAJORITY of Americans realize that one can NEVER EVER have any peace as long as no one is willing to stand up and first identify the enemy of peace.  It is NOT a party it is a cult known as ISLAM.  Most reasonable people are painfully aware that one has no possible chance of beating an enemy if they refuse to first identify that enemy.

We shall see. Unless a positive attitude toward lasting peace can be seen from the Democrats, it could cause another Republican victory. The same deregulation policies and elitist attitudes that is even now bringing the U.S. to the brink of bankruptcy will certainly continue. There are a lot of bad spirits that could bring down the Democrats, a few of them are: militarism, elitism, religious hypocrisy, sexism and racism. People need to be involved as well as make a choice because if America is left with two right wings, it may never fly again.

I had wanted to move on to another subject but this one persists. The general series is on Returning to the True God and we have contrasted the Christians who have been taught to love each other against Christians who believe that killing each other is OK.

What Christians are wanting to Kill Other Christians?  You use that term loosely but I have seen no evidence of Christian killing Christian here in America.

George T. Erdel

Hello George,

The God I worship is the One that sent Jesus to die on the cross for all of us, even the ones that you think is OK for us to kill. This is the Jesus of the New Testament, it is the New Covenant between God and man that supersedes the Old Covenant that He had made with Israel. By your response here, you certainly worship the God of the Old Testament. Same God but now we are in an age of grace and Christian love, His dealings with mankind are different now and He expects us to live in His Spirit with the fruits of repentance.

What I need to do is highlight your response and give it top billing for the next edition. There are a lot of Christians that agree with you and it is also the reason that many unbelievers cannot accept Christianity. People need to know that this is not the gospel that Jesus preached, nor is it the teaching of the apostles.

Thanks for bringing these attitudes to our attention.


You stated that Christians are killing Christians.  Please explain What Christians are killing and Which ones are being Killed.  I certainly hope that you are not equating Muslims with Christians.   Please clarify this for me.

Hi again George,

Clarification is welcome. Nowhere did I state anything about Christians killing Christians. I did mention that Jesus died for all and I did contrast Christians who are taught to love each other against Christians who are taught to kill each other. To love each other is not confined to Christians loving only Christians, neither is killing one another. The phrase "each other" as I used it is applied to all people of all religions or non religions, in any country.


Jay, you are right on my man.

I agree with you 101%,    I stop believing on the two party system in 1972. I will share a little secret between you and me and the world.  If you are truely a revolutionary (wanting complete change)  you would want McCain to win.  I do.   Please let me explain.  If Obama wins nothing is really going to change from the foundation. The end to our realtiy will only take longer.  If McCain wins he will drive this country to hell faster.  So if the foundation is not going to change lets get it over with. McCain will takes us there.

Are you getting my email?   Keep up the great work.  God Bless. Tlamatini-vicente

Vicente Carranza

Hi Vicente,

Remember Hall and Oates recording, in the eighties I think. They had a song that came to mind when I read your letter "I Can't Go For That, No Can Do."

We should want Heaven for America, not hell. To suggest voting for the worst candidate just so America can go to hell faster is beyond explanation, I have no idea what would make you think like that but I cannot associate with it in any way.

The things I would like to see happen in America is restoration, revival and redemption. I will continue to fight for peace and justice but not to bring America down, I want to see her lifted up. I know that it will happen as you say but not today and I will fight for the country I love to bring herself to repentance. I believe that there will be a day when the latter rain really will fall and we are to pray for good things, not bad ones. That's the kind of change I want. America will be humbled in the long run, she will be brought down, she will be judged and is happening even now. My message is the same as it was from the beginning, repentance and holiness will bring about the revival. What you said was unholy.

Thanks anyway,


Jay I am sorry you feel this way and I hope and pray that you are right because I too love my country, the United States. But I have seen people who think like you come and go by the hundreds. I have been a full time activist 24/7 for 39 yrs working for Justice.  A little free advice-you can never have peace until you have justice first. I am working on my second college degree and in two more years if God is willing I will have my degree in Ministry.  I have also been an Elder for over 10 years. I was once a Deacon.

The problem with your Christianity is that you relate God-Faith-Religion-Heaven-and everything else about God as being exclusively belonging to the United States. What are you, a citizens of Heaven first or a citizen of the United States? If you have to follow one law and not the other which one who you follow, the law of the United States or the law of God. And no they are not the same.  People with you kind of thinking are citizens of the United States first and would follow the law of the United States and you who have a couple of passages of the Bible to justify your position.

I do not want the United States to go down but if we keep the same government that is being control by the Corps. Obama or the Democrats are not going to make a difference. And their are hundreds of books, reports, position papers and websites that can prove that to you if you don't mind getting your religious hands and head mess up by politics.

If God created everything did he create only the good.  Then who created the bad?  I don't and have never prayed for good or bad for anyone or anything but I have prayed daily for the will of God which is base on the truth even if the truth is against the United States .  And what the government of the Uniteed States has been doing for over 8 years is not base and have never been base on the truth.  What goes around comes around. And if you really-really- really have an open mind you can see for yourself that our country is not in a very good place.  I have lived in 5 other counties and travel many other and since the 70's the United States is the most hate country bare none. And yes I know everyone wants to come here. But they don't believe in anything wonderful of the United States they just want to make money.  But I know you kind of Christianity does not believe this because you believe that everything about the United States is a blessing from God and we can do anything we want with any country and it is ok because God is on our side and with no other side.  Just like Dave Crockett and John Wayne God is a true American and the hell with the rest of the world.  Sorry, I forgot, England and Israel are not included. Even if Israel is black mailing us with their missles.

I still love your original email that I respond too.   And just like I respect your right to express yourself maybe you should respect mind.  But if you don't that ok.   May God bless you and everything you do. Tlamatini-vicente. (Yes, am Hispanic- Your God made me one)

Hi Vicente,

You are putting me into neat little bags and ticky tacky boxes that I do not fit into.
First of all, you have never seen anything like me - anywhere. You could know me through the depths of my site but I have never met anyone who has gotten that close to me.

Nice to know that you are in school. I started the DRE program and stopped dead cold at dispensationalism. Although latitude is given as to the way you want to approach it, for me to know that the school teaches it as fact disqualifies me from me taking any of the rest as serious. I will treasure the BTh and Master of Ministry because I did the work. I guess this is the farthest I will ever get at my age.

No, I do not relate my faith as belonging to the United States. My Liberation Theology precludes it. I have my point and reference here and when election time comes, I get involved in order to dissuade others from going down the path of the harlot church. What I need to do is get into the third world countries and follow the Lord into revival. It's time from my view but it has to be in God's timing. The Lord will open the door and make a way.

I don't believe that everything about the United States is a blessing from God. One example is that many think that homosexuality is a blessing from God. It is sin pure and simple. Wow, I keep looking at all these false assumptions about me. Where did you get these, it looks like something you put together from a composite of others and think that I fit the mold. Most everything you said is contrary to what I am. Do I see you here essentially lumping me with bourgeoise Christians wearing rose colored glasses? You don't know me in the slightest. Do your homework. Why don't you take some of my writings to heart and form a composite of me from my own life and teachings instead of so many others that don't fit. That would make a nice post. You could probably write a book.

See ya,


Dear Jay, I believe we both got off on the wrong foot.  You did the same to me by putting me into neat little bags and ticky tacky boxes with your respond to my respond to your first email.

I met Paulo Freire (Pedagogy of the Oppressed) in CEDOC and study under him in 1973.  I also studied (workshops) Liberation Theology (late at night) at UNAM in Mexico  City.

Send me your writings and I will send you mine. Tlamatini-vicente

Hi Vicente,

I did not get off on the wrong foot, you are the one that wants to drive America to Hell. My writings are on the Latter Rain Page, If your writings are in the same vein as what I see here, I will not have time to read them.


I also don't have time for a close minded person. Adios!

Hi Vicente,

I do believe that your priorities are misplaced. If you had condemned to the pits of hell laizzes faire capitalism, globalism, the New World Order, the multi-national corporation's exploitation of third world human and natural resources and things along that line, I would have welcomed your response to liberation theology. But you talk of driving America down to hell, and yes, my mind is certainly closed to that and I cannot apologize for it. I am sorry that you cannot understand this.


Jay you might with other but with me you will not get the last word.   I did not say I wanted America to go down to hell becuase it is already well on it way since Ronald Regan and 1992.  I just want it to get their fast so we can start over again. You have to open you mind to other and not be so hung up on your own Christian  thing. Besides if you really believe (like you claim) in Liberaion Theology and know what it means you could not write the emails that you have that you have send to me. Beside a real Christian would have already drop me like a hot penny.

I write one email a week and send it to 1283 addresses and they send it to 10+ more for a grant total of  at least 128,310 people who read my emails. Besides one liberal district judge you are the only one that has comments about me yet you want me to take your writing to heart and then write a book about you.     Where are you coming from?


My first, second and third option  would always be Hillary Clinton but in this present scenario I'd not hesitate in giving my support to Obama.

McCain x Palin is just devil's choice (she is abominable to say the least). I can't imagine a woman drawing pleasure from shooting a moose. I HATE GUNS AND HUNTING.

What does move conservative Americans to endorse them? I really can't understand.

I wish I can be with you in your ministry. How can I get prepared by myself? Is your new CD Macintosh compatible?


Thanks Claudia,

Glad to hear from you. I rejected Hillary because I thought she was mainstream establishment and the call for change from Obama is directed at the right places. But you are absolutely right in the alternative of McCain and Palin as the devil's choice. This is the false God that I am talking about and the message for people to return to the true God. We have an opportunity not to kill the beast but to slow it down long enough for revival, and an interim for the third world to pray that they are not next when the time comes. To talk like we do is heresy and unpatriotic from the devil's perspective as an angel of light, that is why they hate us so much.

Conservatives vote the way that they do because they believe the lies. I know that I have to repeat it over and over but this time I will quote directly from the scripture.

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

You are looking for revival as much as I am but these people think they are saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost and we are lost. The lies they believe is out of that antichrist system in the Bush administration and hopefully not the next administration. It has often times made me sound like a kook but as time goes on, it makes more sense to more people and I will continue saying it until it gets through to as many people as I can. I am saying that God is on the side of justice. This is the best I can do on my site but on the other hand you are asking what you can do in my ministry. We should be praying that if God wants me to go to Brazil or any other place and there is a plan for me there, I should go.


I like it!!

We may be in the minority but I have been singing this song for 40 years.


Hi Lee,

40 years is longer than I have been singing it. At that time I was between Johnson and Nixon. I hated LBJ for getting us so deep into Viet Nam and Nixon for being the liar that he was. It was some years before I could trust either party. I recognized the Nature of the Beast when Reagan sent all those death squads into Central America.

Thanks for the encouraging word.


Dear Jay, this is a very nice way of putting things.

Bankers and others for many years if not for hundred of years have been manipulating the Governments to create wars.
I Attach for your guidance an article that you may find refreshing, and will give an overall idea of what is going on in this world.

In Matthew 16:18, it is said:
"And I say also unto thee, Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
The above sounds wonderful as long as one does not know what the gates of hell are. The knowledge of this has been lost to Christianity. One must look into the Bhagavad-Gita, Zen Buddhism, Homer in order to find out what the gates of Hell are.

The gates of Hell are: Greed, Lust and Anger.

The Greed of the Roman Empire survived to this day.If you read Suetonius on the lives of the Caesars, you will find that these personalities were emetic, and one cannot keep reading their lewdness, and their cruel and criminal behavior. Finally Anger is the wars Bankers and generals love to have so they are in business and control the Public.

Christ's injunction to "love thy neighbor"  was set aside I favor of the "Gates of Hell."
With regard to Greed , the Catholic Church in insult to the Holy Spirit, has the bank of the Holy Spirit.. The recent legal judgments for sexual molestation of Children,  and the inquisition, is an irrefutable evidence that this version of Christianity is solidly operating from inside the gates of Hell.
The Protestants admitting Homosexuals in priesthood attest to having entered into the gates of  HELL THROUGH LUST, they may have other defects which I may do not know.
One author has written ten volumes on the atrocities of Christianity. I did not need to buy it.

Everybody admires the Athenian Democracy, but this is only to hide the fact that after Christianity was established as the official religion of Rome, Greece was converted to have Emperors as the political and religious heads. Christ was set aside and the Ancient Greek religion was declared and idolatry by the idolaters.
Know all the Historical forgeries  are being understood and they are being revealed.

I firmly believe whatever the cost of having the big banking houses going bankrupt, it is a much better alternative that continuing with these Greedy people who have turned humanity to their slaves. I am sure that what they count as loses is only what they did not manage to recover. But over the tears they have bled humanity many times over and all these earnings are stashed away some place.
I hope you can pass this over to the forum.

Theodore Efstathiou

Hi Theodore,

I pretty much agree with you about the bankers and the gates of Hell certainly include what you list, greed, lust and anger, they are way up there in the problems we face. About a few other things you mention, I will explain.

To lump the entire Catholic Church with molestation and the inquisition, reserving them to the gates of hell is something that I can never agree on. The Holy Spirit works with us severally as He wills (1 Corinthians 12:11). While what you say may be true in part, it is not true of the whole. Also to suggest Protestants admitting homosexuals with this kind of generalization is also unfair and untrue. There are many Roman Catholic and Protestant believers who have not bent the knee to Baal, so to speak. I hope you can agree that there is good and bad among them.

As to Democracy, we are in the "times of the Gentiles." He is the head of the church (Eph 1:22) but "now we see not yet all things put under him" (Heb 2:8). He has yet to "put down all rule and all authority and power" or His "enemies under his feet" 1Co 15:24, 25. We can look forward to that glorious day. Until then, Democracy is the best we have but it has to be more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. True democracy is a social democracy that embraces among them the minorities and those least able to help themselves.

Thanks for sharing,


Dear Jay,

Thank you kindly for your reply.
The whole thing boils down to this.
As I said earlier to you mistranslating the word Logos that is Christ into English as the "Word" and that he dwelt among us, instead of he established Himself in us, had denied the Divinity to Christ. Therefore today many people deny the existence of Christ, or deny that he was a true God, but not the Father.

According to St John Christ as the Logos is the creator of everything. In the Ancient Greek theology the creator is the Spermatic Logos. The word SPERMATIC is the power of the Holy Spirit. But the Titans, Giants and Assures Declared Ancient Greek Dodecaphony to be idolatry so they have destroyed the religious continuity that existed.

Second, in John 3:1-13, Christ tells Nicodemus that we should be born above, not just again, of spirit and of water. Christ tells the Samaritan woman that God is Spirit, and God seeks such people to worship him.
The last few people that had this second birth as Christians were extinct by the time of the worst persecution of the Romans by Diocletian starting at about 292 AD. The edict for this persecution was against the Gnostics and not against the Christians, because , the Gnostics had retained the second birth, and  what ever was left of them,  Emperor Justinian finished then off. What ever still existed of the Gnostics they were persecuted by the Christians. The Gnostics were those that followed the teachings of Christ to the letter including the knowledge of how to obtain the second birth (John 3:1-13).

So the knowledge of  how to obtain the second birth that Christ spoke in John 3;1-13,
where we have to be born above by Water and Sp[is became extinct. No religion has this knowledge today, whether Christian or not. Do you? Does the priest of Church know?

Ecclesiastic Father Erinaceous (120-202 AD) who according to Chadwick is the last Bishop knowledgeable in the Holy Spirit said:
"Know thou that every man is either empty or full. For if he has not the Holy Spirit, he has no knowledge of the creator; he has not received Jesus Christ the Life; he knows not the father who is in heaven; if he does not live after the dictates of reason, after the heavenly law, he is not sober minded person, nor does he act uprightly: such an one is empty. If on the other hand, he receives God, who says, " I will dwell with them, and walk in them, and I will be their God," such an one is not empty."(Ante Nicene Fathers, Volume I, T& T Clark, Edinburg, Wm. be. Eerdmans publishing company, grand rapids, Michigan.)

The way one obtains the second birth (John 3:1-13) is lost to humanity save for some exceptional individuals but it does not exist in any recognized religion.

Today people go to the church and when they come out they are just the same. You are an exception and I know there are more like you in all longitutes and Latitudes.
With respect to the Papacy, the name of the Pope derives from Pontifex Maximus, who according to Plutarch, was the hierophant of the Eleusinian Mysteries which have been ridiculed as bestial orgies by Christians. The excavations of the site of the Eleusinian Mysteries, has unearthed the statue of Emperor Tiberius to wear the Toga of the Hierophant
of the Eleusinian Mysteries and he is named Pontifex Maximus. So the Pope or the Pontifex claims to be the Hierophant of the Eleusinian Mysteries and that he is also  the representative of Christ and that he can give the second birth like Christ did, for Christ brought back to Humans the Holy Spirit. Where is it that he gives the second birth. See the inconsistency the Christians, they ridicule the Eleusinian Mysteries, but the Pope says he is the one that continues them in the name of Christ.

The second thing about the Mysteries is that unless you have the second birth (John 3:1-13) your prayers to God are not heard, so Christians are empty of the Holy Spirit as stated by Irenaeus and cannot have the benefit of it. Therefore the society at large is inside the gates of Hell.

I will not disagree that there are many pious and God fearing people in every religion and not just in the Christian one, but if they don't have their second birth , whether they be Christians, Jews, Arabs or Hellenes etc,. they must at least be seekers  of the truth, but very few are. All true religions profess the second birth from the time of Adam and Eve.People must be seekers of the truth. Very few are.

With respect to Paul, Plutarch says that Socrates used to say that persons that claim to see visions of the Divine and claim to speak with it are impostors. This is a first confirmation that Paul is the Heretic of Christ. Socrates is a Divine Incarnation, but Academia and theologians have placed him in the Academic deep freeze so that he does not disturb them.
Socrates said that the truth is never refuted, and Christ said that the "truth shall liberate you"  Today even if one speaks the truth every body turns against him, because people cannot accepts that for thousand of years they arte being led astray.
You spoke the truth but you could not convince any one.
Through the second birth every person can improve himself. Another name for the second birth, is the Socratic-Delphic knowledge of the self. If you come to know yourself you will discover God the spirit that is in you. How many Christians know this?


Hi Theodore,

Certainly what you say is true but it has nothing to do with our current discussion. We have discussed the difference between the Logos and the Rhema word before, maybe we will do it again and a post like this will be relevant. It is not new to me but it may be new to others and thanks for sharing it.


Dear Jay,
Please read this. Greed has taken over the running of the US. If this legislation goes through it will be the end of the Best country in the world.
This shows that the Assuric or godless forces have managed to get control of the Universe like the Titans and Giants of old.
This happens because for nearly 1700 years they managed to nullify the second birth (John 3:1-13) to the point if one speaks of it people react and arte ready to call one a heretic.
These are very sad days for the whole world.

Mushroom Cloud over Wall Street

By Mike Whitney

"One bank to rule them all;
One bank to bind them..."

21/090/08 "ICH " -- - These are dark times. While you were sleeping the cockroaches were busy about their work, rummaging through the US Constitution, and putting the finishing touches on a scheme to assert absolute power over the nation's financial markets and the country's economic future. Industry representative Henry Paulson has submitted legislation to congress that will finally end the pretense that Bush controls anything more than reading the lines from a 4' by 6' teleprompter situated just inches from his lifeless pupils. Paulson is in charge now, and the coronation is set for sometime early next week. He rose to power in a stealthily-executed Bankster's Coup in which he, and his coterie of dodgy friends, declared martial law on the US economy while elevating himself to supreme leader.

"All Hail Caesar!" The days of the republic are over.

Section 8 of the proposed legislation says it all:

"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

Right; "non-reviewable" supremacy.

Congress, of course, is more than eager to abdicate whatever little authority they have left. They're infinitely grateful for their purely ceremonial role, the equivalent of Caligula's horse, albeit, with considerably less dignity. Has even one senator spoken out against this madness, which--according to informal internet polls--is resoundingly rejected by the voters? Does it concern the members of congress at all, that the present financial crisis was brought on by the proliferation and sale of trillions of dollars of mortgage-banked garbage which were fraudulently represented as Triple A rated bonds by the very same people who now claim to need unprecedented and dictatorial powers to fix the problem? Or are they more worried that the steady torrent of contributions which flows from Wall Street to congressional campaign coffers will be inconveniently disrupted if they fail to ratify this latest assault on democratic governance? The House of Representatives is one big steaming dungheap that should be leveled and turned into an amusement park instead of a taxpayer-funded knocking shop. What a pathetic collection of cowards and scumbags.

Bloomberg News: "

"The Bush administration sought unchecked power from Congress to buy $700 billion in bad mortgage investments from financial companies in what would be an unprecedented government intrusion into the markets. Through his plan, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson aims to avert a credit freeze that would bring the financial system and the world's largest economy to a standstill. The bill would prevent courts from reviewing actions taken under its authority.

"He's asking for a huge amount of power,'' said Nouriel Roubini an economist at New York University. ``He's saying, `Trust me, I'm going to do it right if you give me absolute control.' This is not a monarchy." (Bloomberg)

The banksters own this country, always have; only now they've decided to strip away the curtain and reveal the ghoulish visage of the puppet-master. It ain't pretty.

Paulson decided that the financial markets needed an emergency trillion dollar face-lift just weeks before his former business partners at G-Sax were dragged off to the chopping block. Was that the reason? Everyone on Wall Street knew that the bulls-eye had already been ripped from Lehman's bloody back and was about to be fastened on Goldman's. Now, it looks like they will escape their day of reckoning due to Paulson's eleventh-hour reprieve. Nice touch, eh?


"(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them."

Market Ticker's Karl Denninger summed this up best:

"This is the de facto nationalization of the entire banking, insurance and related financial system..That's right - every bank and other financial institution in the United States has just become a de-facto organ of the United States Government, if Hank Paulson thinks they should be, and he may order them to do virtually anything that he claims is in furtherance of this act.....The bill gives Paulson the ability to nationalize unlimited amount of private debt and force you and your children to pay for it."

Denninger again:

"The claim is that this is intended to 'promote confidence and stability' in the financial markets.
It will do no such thing. It will instead strike terror into the hearts of investors worldwide who hold any sort of paper, whether it be preferred stock, common stock or debt, in any financial entity that happens to be domiciled in the United States, never mind the potential impact on Treasury yields and the United States sovereign credit rating.

I predict that if this passes it will precipitate the mother and father of all financial panics." (Market Ticker)

Amen. The transformation from a free market to a centralized, Soviet-style economy run by men whose judgment and credibility is already greatly in doubt; does not auger well for the markets or the country. Anyone with a lick of sense would cash in their chips first thing Monday and look for capital's Elysium Fields overseas or as far as possible from the circus sideshow now run by G-Sax ringleader, Colonel Klink.

Paulson's Chicken Little routine might might have soiled a few senatorial undergarments, but let's hope the American people are made of sterner stuff and will reject this charade. The conversation should be shifted from conceding more authority to hucksters in pin-stripes to indictments for securities fraud. Even the most economically-challenged nation ought to be able to afford a few sets of leg-irons and a couple hundred jail cells. That's all it will take. That, and a couple brisk dunks on the waterboard. Glub, glub.

Paulson's plan to revive the banking system by buying up hundreds of billions of dollars of illiquid mortgage-backed securities (MBS) and other equally poisonous debt-instruments; ignores the fact these complex bonds have already been "marked to market" in the recent firesale by Merrill Lynch. Just weeks ago, Merrill sold $31 billion of these CDOs for roughly $.20 on the dollar and provided 75 percent of the financing, which means that the CDOs were really worth approximately $.06 on the dollar. If this is the settlement that Paulson has in mind, than the taxpayer will be well served. But this will not recapitalize the banks balance sheets or mop up the ocean of red ink which is flooding the financial system. No, Paulson intends to hand out lavish treats to his banker buddies, while interest rates soar, pension funds collapse, the housing market crashes, and the dollar does a last, looping swan-dive into a pool of molten lava. Thanks, Hank.

Economist and author Henry Liu summarized the current maneuvering like this: "The Fed is merely trying to inject money to keep prices not supported by fundamentals from falling. It is a prescription for hyperinflation. The only way to keep price of worthless assets high is to lower the value of money. And that appears to be the Fed unspoken strategy."

Indeed. The Fed and Treasury have decided to backstop the entire global financial system (foreign banks can access the Fed's facilities, too!) with paper money which is rapidly losing its value. Watch the greenback tumble tomorrow in currency trading.

Congress is getting steamrolled and the American people are getting snookered. Consumer confidence--already at historic lows--is headed for the wood-chipper feet-first. Something has got to give.

One minute everything is hunky-dory; the subprime meltdown is "contained" and "the fundamentals of our economy are strong".(Paulson) And, less than a week later, congress is forced to surrender their constitutionally-mandated right to oversee spending in order to forestall economic Armageddon. Which is it? Or is the real objective just to keep the country on an emotional teeter-totter long enough for all state-power to be subsumed by the Wall Street Politburo?

No one knows what will happen next. We are in uncharted waters. And no one knows what the political landscape will look like after the dust settles from this outrageous power grab. According to Paulson, things are so dire, the entire nation will be reduced to smoldering rubble and twisted iron. But can we trust him this time after his long litany of lies?

Isn't it about time to send the cockroaches scuttling back to their hideouts and bring in the cleaning crew to hose the whole place down? It sounds like a job for Ralph Nader, a man of vision and unshakable integrity. Give Ralph a badge and let him deploy his Raiders to Wall Street armed with bullwhips and tasers. Let them post a guard in every CEOs and CFOs office and every boardroom on the Street---and if even one decimal is accidentally moved to the right or left on the corporate ledger; clap them in leg-irons and drag them off squealing to Guantanamo. That's how you clean up Wall Street!

Don't let the prospect of a national crisis trick you into giving up your freedom, America. The people behind this scam are the same landsharks and flim-flam men who polluted the global marketplace with their snake oil and toxic sludge. These are the fraudsters who manufactured the crisis to begin with. This is just the latest installment of the Shock Doctrine; engineer a crisis, and then, steal whatever is left behind. Same sh**, different day. Be resolute. Don't budge. Our economic foundations may be crumbling, but or determination is not. This is our country, not Goldman Sach's. The people who destroyed America must be held to account. Their time is coming. Justice first.

Now you are talking Theodore, this has immense relevance to what we are discussing.

What the Bush administration is trying to do is to set this kind of capitalistic greed so entrenched in the system that it will be impossible for anyone to do anything about it no matter who is elected President next time. Can we undo this kind of damage? We shall see but I still believe that the kind of repentance that this country needs can being about the change in America that comes from a loving God. If McCain and Palin get in, the forces of mammon have won. I also still believe in restoration and when the Bible talks about it, it is the restoration of "all things." That includes a blessing on America that we once had.

Thank you,


Dear Jay,
God is ever loving. As the bible says He showers upon righteous and unrighteous. This means that God Showers everybody with His blessings. We humans don't know how to receive his blessings and therefore his blessings go unanswered. DON'T FORGET THE  UNIVERSE WAS CREATED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND IN THIS SENSE WILL ARE ALL SURROUNDS BY THE HOLY SPIRIT BUT WE DON PERCEIVE IT UNLESS WE HAVE OUR SECOND BIRTH (John 3:1-3)
Socrates said, that virtue (blessings) are given by God when we are in a state of thought less awareness. To achieve this state we need to have our second birth (john 3:1-13) The knowledge of this is lost to the whole humanity save for a few.
The primordial sin, is not the exit of Adam and Eve from Paradise. This exit was caused by God, so that people would start receiving/accepting Gods blessings by having their union with the Divine (John 3:1-13)
The Apocalypse is due to the fall of the angels-or the Asuras-or Titans-or Giants taking hold of the Universe and trying to do away with God. In the Apocalypse the Babylon, is the human soul which is ever so ready to take on an unholy life. To pass judgment one must receive his second birth which but Gods love is here again.

Thoughtful article recognizes errors from start. No hopeful signs but only current option is Obama. Strong progressive voices. Must force Obama loyalty to base.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

That's about it in a nutshell for sure BlackBerry. Insightful words. Thanks.


"The general series is on Returning to the True God, and we have contrasted
the Christians who have been taught to love each other, against
Christians who believe that killing each other is OK."
It looks as if the pot, is calling the kettle black here. He speaks of "Christians who believe killing is ok", and that is not the case, but, there are times, when people die in wars. And, God has proven in times past, that wars have been His Will in certain situations. Is this war His Will? Only He has that answer.
But, let me ask the left wing branch of the Democratic Party two questions. "When did God ever approve, the killing our own children"? When did He ever approve, the embracing of homosexuality? Such, has this nation become. "In God We Trust". As a nation, what a lie.
These people are blind to the truth.
Yes, abortion is one of the very important issues, to the "born again" Christian. If one believes that 4 or 5 dollar gas is more important, then the lives of our innocent children, it will probably be these people, who profess Christ, but when the time comes, will openly embrace the anti christ when he rises. Because they are blind to the real truth.
Why was Israel judged so severally? Because they refused to follow the laws that God gave to them. They turned their backs on God and decided to do their own thing. Much like America today. Yes, judgement is coming forth, unless this nation repents, and comes back to the laws of God, not man.
Am I a war monger? Absolutely not. I spent my time in close combat, in the jungles of Vietnam. I had my own blood shed, and I shed the blood of others, so I hate war, because we lose many good American military men and women. But, the freedom that the left wingers have, is simply because honorable men followed the commands of their government. And many, died with great honor.
No, I am not a far right wing Republican either. For many years I was a proud registered Democrat, but the Democratic party has been led astray by the godless beliefs of the far left, so I bailed out to embrace the Christian right. God before politics.
In Christ,
C D Hunt

Hi C D,

The kettle is a black as sin for sure. So are Christians who believe that killing is OK and that is the truth. Yes, people do die in wars. There are a lot of people outside of your comfort zone that believe that God reveals His will to His servants. When there are enough of them (us) to get together as a unit, there will be revival.

I don't believe that the true God has ever approved of killing our own children. There is a false god that approves of killing Muslim women and children and those defending their homeland against a foreign oppressor intent on world domination. That is the god that you serve, right? It was the god that sent Americans to kill the North Vietnamese men, women and children simply because they wanted a different economic system than we had. I don't blame them. Any country where the poor is in the majority has a right to throw off capitalist greed and multi-national oppression that seeks to plunder their labor and natural resources and leave them with nothing. Are these the kind of people that you killed and is this the reason that you killed them? I see no honor in that.

Don't think that the true God ever approved of homosexuality either. I wonder where your hostility is coming from, not from me. I don't approve of abortion and homosexuality in fact it repulses me. The Democratic Party is pluralistic, it includes all of these things but only a fool would question God for that. I am a lot more moderate than anyone will give me credit for but that's OK. I think that you are a right wing Christian nut so not much gained there.

I do not follow the letter of the law and I do not ever need to feel that in breaking God's law that somehow I have turned my back on Him. I think that a lot of laws in America should change but I love the good old America that held the Constitution as something sacred. Since George Bush has treated our Constitution as null and void in the name of patriotism, I have put politics ahead of a false god anytime.

Thanks for the dialogue,


My Brother,
   In stead of getting angry with people lost to the truth, as you seem to be, I will just pray for you.
   Is the taking of a human life ever justified? Well, I suppose you should take that up with the One True God, who in the past, has said yes. Or perhaps you believe, that He gave the Hebrews the wrong commands. After all, He did command them, that they should kill all men, women and children. Yes Jay, that's the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
   But, to take some burden off of your mind my brother. I never killed a child in Vietnam, nor did I ever witness it done. Were innocents ever killed? Yes, God forbid. That's the reality, and the ugliness of war.
   As for women, they were trained combat solider's, armed, trying to kill me, and the men under my command.
   You really need to review your history my brother. We, the US Military, were in country because the communist government from the north, invaded a democracy in the south. Bad democracy perhaps, but none the less, a democracy. And that democracy, requested our involvement.
   And not being the coward, as so many left wingers were, and still are, I didn't burn my draft card and head north, I followed the commands of my government.
   Let me ask you my brother, what have you ever done for your country!? Besides, complain about it.
   Yes, there are things that we agree on. Bush has made some bad decisions. But, he is still the one that God placed into power. That's another bible lesson.
   By the way, when you vote to put these left wing, abortion thirsty, homosexual loving politicians into office, then yes, you too, support the ungodly acts that they thrive on.
  I suppose that you, and people like you, support the division of the State of Israel also, and giving it to the Palestinians?
After all, I'm sure that killing the Palestinians would ruffle your feathers also.
  Believe it or not, but in that final hour, my Lord Jesus Christ will kill more human beings, then all the wars that have ever taken place. War is sad, but it is biblical.
   Get Baptized in the Name of Jesus, get filled with the Holy Spirit and your sight may change.
   In love through Christ Jesus, who gives it to us so abundantly, because at times, we really need it.

C D Hunt

Wouldn't it be nice Jay if the world according to Jay was the way it truly is. I prefer to stick my head in Gods' sand and know in my heart he is in control. I give very little meaning to my vote. I just vote because I have the right to.I will vote how my heart feels about the cantadates. Father is in control I could care less what men say and do they cannot be trusted and I cannot be trusted to know the reality of it all. I know where it is going to end anyway and look forward to that day with much joy. I will continue to love you and all by brothers and sisters and neighbors unconditionally. I suspect you do too. Tune out to the world. Focus on Father and your neighbors love and help them it will be energy well spent. Don't you thin?

Love in Christ


Hi Bob,

Dialogue with you is kind of fun, I enjoy it. What I shared in the last newsletter were some factual weaknesses in the Democratic party that can be attested by the way it truly is, not just according to Jay. Sure, I also spoke of lasciviousness, licentiousness, economic crisis, violence and divine judgment but these things are also the way it is, not just according to Jay.

Telling the truth will always offend people and I commend you for continuing to love each other regardless. You say you know where it is going to end but I should remind you that the way the Bible says it will be at the end is that "all might be damned who believed not the truth." I will not tune out the world, I will do what I can to reach the world with the truth. What I need to do for many people is to get their heads out of the sand and into the light of truth. There you will find the true God.

Thanks for responding this time, I am glad you are still here.


Jay, I think you are working under a false assumption that the president and congress are running this nation.  The Fed and the bankers have been running the nation for many years.  It doesn't really matter who is elected, the result is the same.  This present crisis in NY with the banking system is far more of a threat to this country than the war in Iraq.  We are looking at a total collapse of the dollar and an end to prosperity in this country.  

Bruce Baker

Hi Bruce,

It does matter who is elected. George Bush has run this country into the ground irregardless of the Feds or interest rates or the banks. It is a failed presidency and people still support him.

Of course it would look like to you that the banks are more of a threat to us than the war in Iraq. You are here with an elitist attitude and the occupation of Iraq and the buy outs are all funded by borrowed money. The people of Iraq see threats quite differently. They say it is very quiet over there now. With a million and a half Iraqi killed, they are certainly more quiet than before.


You missed my main point.  GW is not running the country.  The bankers, who are never on TV, and whose names are never made public, are running the country and have for nearly 100 years.  GW is a puppet, a talking head, nothing more.  The bankers that run the country are not the ones making news now.  They are not the presidents of the failed financial institutions.  They are totally invisible.  They own the Fed.

For a much more detailed understanding, go to Dr. John Coleman's web site.  Check out "The Committee of 300."
God Bless

Hi Bruce,

Actually I did get your point. Of course the Feds are to blame for deregulation and HUD is to blame for the housing crisis. The point that you were trying to make that I disagree with is that it does not matter who is elected President and that is simply not true. If we really want change in our institutions we need better than a lying George Bush pretending to represent the people and a deceitful Condoleezza Rice echoing the same lies and forcing all these things we are talking about down the throats of a gullible public. We need real change.


Remove me from yoiur email list.
Valerie P. Hughes.

Registered Republican and Bush Supporter.
 Marine Mom and Christian WARRIOR.

Hi Valerie,

Instead of using the unsubscribe function at the end of the newsletter, you have hit reply and opted into dialogue with the latter rain list. Since you don't really have much to say except that are part of a militaristic Christian Republican Warrior family, I thought I would ask you a question.

Matt Damon has recently asked if Sarah Palin thinks that dinosaurs were around 4,000 years ago. It is a fair question since she is a Christian fundamentalist and wants to teach the American children her ways. I was wondering your thoughts on that. Since we are in dialogue, I will leave you on the list, you know how to get off, but I am hoping that you can answer this for us.


Dear Jay and the List,,,why on Earth would you think to ask me to answer for Sarah Palin? If you want to know if I believe there were dinosaurs on Earth 4,000 years ago...then ask me that. As far as I can tell, Sarah Palin doesn't need any help from me...;)
 I haven't ever heard her say that she wants to teach American Children her ways. I really HATE when people make stuff up to try to provoke a political point.
 I have a great deal to say, just not to you.
 I don't give a Rat's ass what that Hollywierd actor has to say to or ask Palin or anyone else for that matter,,,I care what MY LORD has to say. The day Christ walks down Sunset and Vine whilst the earth shakes...Then...and ONLY then...will I care about that Sodom and Gomorrah of the Left Coast.....;))))))))))))))))
 Well jay....I guess that about covers your email to me...doesn't it??
have a great life.............................................Valerie

Hi Valerie,

You have made a very valid point. I should have worded it differently. Do you think that dinosaurs were on the earth 4000 years ago?


(no reply)

Jay we are going through an election here in Canada as a few thoughts I wrote for my column.

A Dozen Reasons Why I am Voting in this Election - An Open Letter to Canadians

I have been reading opinion pages and listening to call-in programs and have been disheartened by what I hear. Almost every point-of-view is skewed by a preconceived perspective. I hear, "So-and-so is a crook", "The X party are duds", and "only my party can govern effectively". As the polls show, most people have already made up their minds and only a few percentage points of voters are actually making a decision based on what they hear during the campaign - sad but true.

This blind partisanship, I believe, keeps us (the people) from getting what we want. We all want government to use the power we give them to solve problems we can't solve for ourselves. Most people would agree that things in this country and the world are less than what we hoped for, and there is a great deal of room for improvement. Being divided into opposing camps prevents us from presenting a unified voice around issues, rather than parties. Furthermore, it is self-deception to believe by changing one government for another, it will be the answer to our problems. It is clear to me that over the last 40 or so years I have observed politics, that changing governments produces little significant change. I think many Canadians agree, because voter turnout is at an all-time low. The problem isn't the government. The problem is us. We cast our ballot and then settle back into our easy chairs. This is not how democracy works for people. It only works when the we are engaged in raising the issues and communicating our expectations to government. Corporations and groups lobby the government for what they want, and for the most part, they have been able to get it, even when it hasn't been in our best interest. Democracy demands participation! It only works when we put forth a clear and specific expectation of what we want from government, and secondly, when we are independently and adequately informed and thirdly, when we remind government who they are working for. That's the formula for good government, regardless of the party or the candidate.

Do you know what you want from your government? It is your job and mine as employer to tell the employee what it is they are expected to do. If you don't know what you want, how can you evaluate for whom to vote? What is important to your life, your community and your country? What do we all need the government to do for us, that we can't do for ourselves?

I know what I want! Here are the things I think would make our community, our country and our world a better place. Feel free to borrow any of these for yourself. (They are not in any particular order - I want them all!)

1. I want labeling of GM food - we should have the right of choice in what we eat.

2. I want the use of pesticides on lawns, farms, and foods to stop. We should be able to eat food that doesn't make us sick!

3. I want new aggressive laws and heavy penalties for white collar crime in public and private corporations and for the misuse of the power we have given our elected officials AND bureaucrats. Nothing less is acceptable.

4. I want creative, visionary leadership in the world community on pollution and uncontrolled fishing of international seas. The decimation of fish in our seas is connected to air pollution, and possibly global warming, and it's wrong!

5. I want leadership in the international community about the uncontrolled deforestation of the planet, and particularly the rain forest. We all breathe the air these trees produce and we have a right to protect the air we all need.

6. I want the reforestation of Canada and the world to compensate for the destruction of billions of trees world-wide. Trees cool the Earth and retain water. They influence climate and are connected to the cause of global warming.

7. I REALLY want the end of speculation for profit by corporate and private investors in the supply of food, water and essential commodities such as fuel oil and gasoline. The price of fuel has nothing to do with the cost of its production. Speculators have held us at gun-point and robbed us all. In the case of food and water - people are dying for profits.

8. I want creative leadership in reducing our dependency on the USA for trade. Economic independence would give us a lot more choices in a lot of situations.

9. I want the protection and stimulation of the production of food throughout Canada. We are more than just a market for international corporations to exploit! Producing the majority of our own food is an issue of national security. Smaller scale farming has less environmental impact and is safer and more humane.

10. I want the price of housing to be reduced so 2 people don't have to work 30+ years for the bank, just to have a place to live. The price of land and the types of housing available are indirectly controlled by the government making housing disproportionately priced and us slaves to lenders. The federal government must lead in this provincial issue.

11. I want government to provide a balance of power between consumers and big corporations who make all the rules (in their favour) when it comes to doing business with them. I am tired of being robbed legally.

12. I want the government to take leadership by directing the banks to fix the highly insecure electronic payment system which has huge potential for fraud.

13. (This is a baker's dozen) I want the system of government to help the talented people we send to Ottawa to work together on problems, rather than pit one against the other. No one would design a system like this. It goes against everything we know about problem solving. The system is broken, out-dated, obviously highly ineffective. If the system wasn't so hostile, and senseless, we could attract some really good people who don't want any part of it, the way it is.

You may want to add a few of your own "wants" to this list, but just making a list is not enough. You have to let politicians know what it is you're expecting - loud and clear!!  You have to speak up, write a letter and be heard. It works, and it's the only way democracy will work for you and me.

Paul Weigel

Jay! I respect your opinion.

But when was the last time your shared your opinion with the Lord? Did you ask Him What does He think about war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on? Why are you so scared? Do you know that fear does not let you to see the Truth? Turn your eyes from the world and look at Jesus - that what He said to sinking Peter when he had tried to walk on water during the storm! We ARE in the STORM! And this is our TEST! Pass it..... With respect - Olga M.
P.S. Just remember what Jesus said :"Not all of you become teachers....."!

And I respect your opinion Olga. So much so because it is challenging. Most of the letters I have gotten this time have been from antagonists or people trying to promote themselves. A few favorable ones of course, like always, but generally I have had to defend myself with what sometimes seems like a wasted effort. Since you are late in the dialogue, I need to choose my words well.

To answer your questions:

The Lord and I reason together every day. As far as the war in Iraq, I recognize the truth about the war, this is my guide as far as what I believe the God of truth thinks about it. If I have peace in my spirit, then I am free to take this opinion or that. If there is turmoil in my spirit about certain opinions, I reason with the Lord until there is peace.

Yes, I am scared. It is not fear that does not let me see the truth, it is the truth that is making me scared and I am scared of what Sarah Palin could do. I would suppose that you never think of yourself as liberal, I don't like the label because it depends totally upon any one's definition of liberal. I am progressive which stands opposed to conservatism.

Sarah Palin however, is the most illiberal person that I have ever seen this high in politics. Broadly speaking, she is part of a church that essentially teaches against anyone who shows liberality, social justice, peace, human and civil rights for all, a preferential option for the poor or opposes the god of capitalism. To her and others like her, we are evil and an enemy of the state. She may well be our Vice-President and statistically a high probability to succeed John McCain. Her enemies and maybe your enemies are people like me and she believes that we oppose God and are fair game to be treated as an enemy. She has her fingers on the triggers of mass destruction and will not hesitate to use that power against all social democracies around the world that believe like I do and does not bow down to her (your?) elitist god. She and all who support her will feel that she is doing God a favor when we are killed. That is scary because I know first hand and personal, the hatred that right wing Christians show me.

Historically and accurately, to be liberal is to be free and open-minded, tolerant, generous, favorable to progress and reform. The enemies of true liberality were on two extremes in the twentieth century, namely illiberal people who taught the letter of scripture rather than the spirit, and hedonists with a laxity of the scripture. Together, they interjected the demons of lasciviousness and licentiousness into the word liberal and the true meaning got lost. To be illiberal is to be miserly, bigoted and narrow minded. I mention these things because it is you that wants me to turn from the world to see Jesus and it is I who teaches that Jesus admonishes us to go out into the world and spread the gospel of the Kingdom.   

We are certainly in that time of test, we both need to be passing it. Only time will tell who is the real lover of the truth. I pray that it is you.


Wonderful, wonderful man Jay! You are so misjudging people like Sarah P. and us! I was reading your letter and my heart was in such pain... Sarah is not what you are thinking about her! She is a Mother with mother's heart for ALL people. And you (since you separated yourself from "US") I feel such a love for you and I would want to stop this crying of your heart! I  pray for you and you will see what Lord is doing now in this season! With Jesus's Love. Olga M.


Sweet sugar water mixed with gall. I had addressed you with respect, told you the truth and you despised it. Don't you dare pretend to have pain for me, it is white-washed hypocrisy. I am not crying except to cry justice and when Babylon falls I will rejoice. I want no more of your dribble, do us all a favor and get off of this list, this is just plain stupid pretense. Send me more and I will pick it to pieces like a carcass. Thanks for showing the world how blind and ignorant people like "you" can be.


Jay! You need help. You are such an angry person. I enjoyed an information I got from your Letter Rain List. You do awesome job there. But if you want me out I will do that. There are other very knowledgeable people around. Thank you for everything. And God bless you! Olga M.

Hi again Olga,

More insults mixed with compliments. Sweetness and bitterness from the same well. Of course I am mad, am I correct in assuming that you supported George Bush twice? Don't answer that. Hot water mixed with cold is still lukewarm.

You have a Hotmail account, getting off the list is as easy as getting another phony Hotmail account and harassing me more. As far as needing help, it is hard to defend the poor against people who think that being a Right Wing Christian is from God. Sure I could use help in getting the message out that your way is delusional. Defending myself from people who despise the truth like you do is something more than one man can bear sometimes. I do bear under it. Again, I told you the truth, you despised it and I do not need the whatever kind of help that you think I need.


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