The Elijah Syndrome - Part Three: Despair

April 17, 2003

Elijah had a great time in the Lord didn't he. He confronted the prophets of Baal and won a great victory. Jezebel it seems was a bigger problem however and Elijah's energy was drained. He fled into the wilderness, sat under a juniper tree and said, "It is enough; now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers." Elijah was so depressed that he wanted to die. Jezebel was not an imagined threat either, there were forces at work to destroy Elijah and he had reason to be afraid. But where is your faith brother Elijah? Where is your hope in the God that delivers?

God sent Elijah an Angel and told him to get up and eat. Food was provided for Him and God led him to the mountain. We can learn a lot from these brief passages. First of all, when we come down from a mountain top experience, it can be depressing and Elijah was a classic case of burn out. Get up, get over it and get back to work. God has things for you to do and you have responsibilities in this life. If you cannot get over it, at least get past it but above all, trust in God for your provision and deliverance. Put your hope in a calling that does not perish and will not fail. Don't give up just because people or circumstances around you have failed. What matters most is not the past but who we are now and what we do now in relation to the kingdom of God. Don't worry about other people. Don't get all defensive, accusing and blaming others either. Others can hurt or even kill you but cannot destroy what you have in Jesus unless you let them. Put your trust and hope in God, not in the cares of this world.

Confidence in God brings confidence in your abilities. What other people may do to us is not important as what God expects us to do. Don't be surprised when people fail you. All of us are sons of God, that is if you have the Spirit of Christ in you and led to do what you were created to do. Don't lose hope because only despair will remain if you do. Take responsibility and get about the Lord's business, "forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before." Php 3:13

I am not an expert on psychology and certainly fallible but a word I see used a lot today in psychiatric circles is bi-polar for a lot of things that they used to call schizophrenia. It denotes severe mood swings from depression to elation. Fact is that we are all bi-polar to an extent, it is merely the dual nature of personality that wars against the flesh and the spirit and bounces from doubt and faith, the law of God and the law of sin, happiness and sadness, disillusionment and vision, wisdom and foolishness. But these things are not just mental, they are spiritual and satan has no power unless we give it to Him. God is sovereign and Jesus is Lord and sufficient faith should bring sufficient healing and wholeness.

Elijah was taken to a mountain and the power of God revealed to Him. God was not there in the wind or the earthquake but He was there in a still small voice. Many of us hear Him too but try to tell a county or state health care worker near where you live that you hear that voice. Try to tell a psychiatrist that you are depressed and need help. Will they give you advice? Will they guide you in the right direction? Or will they give you drugs?

To see how most health care workers handle despair, we only need to look at the growing millions and millions of people in the mental health community. Since most of these doctors are not spiritually minded and really don't know what is wrong in most cases, they don't talk of mental trauma and spiritual problems, they talk of a chemical imbalance and then drugs are prescribed like candy. The vast majority of these cases get worse, not better. More and more, counseling and client centered therapy has given way to what they call psychopharmacologic therapies, loosely translated as the use of mind altering drugs to heal. The Greek word "pharmakia" in Revelation is translated in the King James as sorcery. Most of these so-called psychologists are nothing better than witch doctors and alchemists with potions and poisons designed to mask true spirituality and the prophetic calling. Want to see Jezebel in the flesh and muzzling the prophets? Go to a mental health clinic. I see nothing in this world being done to alleviate the actual suffering of mental illness outside of deliverance ministries.

It is so easy to get SSI today that it is bogging down the whole Social Security system and threatening the security of the elderly. Drug costs alone is a phenomenal drain on the economy. Will these doctors give you a word of understanding and knowledge to get you through despair? They can't if they don't understand what is wrong, so the most common question given to a person in the mental health system is "are you taking your meds?" And they call themselves doctors and psychologists and health care workers when basically, the national problem is so acute that they don't have the time to find out what is wrong. Nor do they have the compassion or the knowledge to make them well. Freely admitting that they don't know for sure what is wrong, anti-depressants and anti-psychotic drugs are given out as a cure. When they do not work, they increase the dosage or try another type of drug. Our loved ones are victimized by the very people trusted to help. They go from bad to worse by becoming stupefied and narcoticized into oblivion.

So what is the cure for despair? Faith, hope and charity, these three. There is no easy solution; even the disciples didn't have the faith to cast out this kind without fasting and prayer. How many people do you know in the mental health system that have families that are praying and fasting for them? How many patients have holy hands laid upon them? Hope is the opposite of despair but as soon as these people get into the mental health system, many are lost forever. Charity? Fat chance in an affluent society that votes to lower taxes by cutting any cause that would show liberality to the needy. Desperate people are written off from society, taken out of the work force and institutionalized, forgotten or thrown out into the streets. Only despair and disappointment is ahead for anyone who puts their trust in this worldly system.

There may be more to say on this subject. If not, confronting Ahab and the prophets of Baal would be good to get going for next time. Some think that President Bush has subdued two kings and there is one more coming soon. For those who understand what I am saying here from Daniel seven, what do you think?


Dear Group,

I am intrigued by our point of view, a point of view that I once shared. My only reservation is that some of the demonic-psychological things that I am experiencing can be traced to issues of men pleasing, man-dominion, pride, fear of rejection, deception, bitterness, unforgiveness, rage, and jealousy that I experienced while operating in the institutional edifice of the Baptist church. So for me personally returning to that edifice brings all sorts of temptations that I may not be able to contend with. God always gives us a way to escape when we are tempted, for some that escape is to leave the institutional edifice which is tempting them. I agree that for those who are strong enough and Holy Ghost filled enough and forgiving enough that perhaps they should remain in the ranks of institutional structure and transform from within, but for people who have been wounded, to weather the storm for the sake of unity may be a bit much.


Woody Lucas

Dear Jay - No insight needed from me. You have hit where I sit .....right on. I asked God to search me and show me what was wrong within me - why in such despair oh my soul? He showed me - I need to let Him love His people through me. My loneliness was because of MY withdrawal because people weren't listening. There's a difference between grieving with God over sin, and giving up! The prophet's personal pity part. Great description! I can chuckle now - but I was not chuckling a few weeks ago. The joy of the Lord is our strength! (Neh 8:10). You are another witness...2 Cor 13:1! Keep on, brother. Preach it/teach it. Thank you!

Sue Simmon

My Friend this is so true, people put a mask on hiding the fact that they are no more weak as we are.


Hey Jay!

I have a suggestion. The Bride, the Body, and yes the Pastor, the weak apostle all need a revelation of Jesus Christ. Get in his face and love Him. Let's TEACH our flock HOW to look into that beautiful face of His and love HIM. Let's teach our flock how to have a relationship with HIM. How to pray His WORD back to Him. How to lie against His breast like John did. He will take us into the heavenlies for a glimpse of HIM. Or He might give us His heart. WOW!!! Or He may take us into the throne room with himself and the Love, Love, Love that comes forth from the Holy One of God will change a life forever. Depression cannot stay amongst Holiness!!! Neither can a root of bitterness. Neither can anything that is not of Himself. Neither can that dasardly thing of feeling sorry for oneself!

We need to learn how to do His work in view of an open heaven. We then can love like He loves. Or we can be live Stephen and give our lives to Him. We can do what we see the Father do. Jesus did!!!

Then we can go out and be His Hands, be His Voice to a dying world. We can birth the Bride of Christ. He told me that He is longing for His Bride. But she is not dressed. She is not yet ready.

Church, Church, Church! Stop whining! Go to the ends of the earth if He calls, or go to a family member if He calls, or go to a neighbor. Show them Jesus!

Love to you, J.,
Phyllis Fountain or
"Fountain of Living Water"

From my experiences in Christendom, I have come to the place that whenever I hear a title like Apostle, Prophet, yadi yadi yadi, it is like someone scraping their nails on a chalk board. It grades against my last nerve, it makes me almost physically sick. Now, that is not to say that God is not bringing forth such ministries. I am only saying that the best way to function in any of those ministries is to just do whatever God has you to do, quietly, without trying to make any of these commissions a special position.

I can only think of the word that came in Ezekiel, where he said the day was coming when Prophets would deny being a Prophet, and claim to be a tiller of the land. God I hope so, if I hear the titles many more times, I think I will upchuck... You can quote me on that.


We so much need each other, that is what fellowship is about, I am very excited knowing that we can come together and really get into the Word here. I believe God is really starting to reveal Himself to many in a much deeper way. I have never studied the Word like I have this past year. I would really like to share some of that here. Alot of the things you guys have posted on the Latter Rain site really just confirmed so much of what I was studying, it is just awesome how connected He is making everything.

What He has put on my heart the most is how we don't seek Him like we should, there are so many things that take His place - again until this last year I had never to truly sought Him, yes I went to church, I tithed etc. But that is not what He wanted from me it wasn't what I did for Him it was just being on my knees seeking Him wanting to know Him, loving Him Being still and knowing that He is God- that is what made the difference in my life. That is what finally started breaking the chains that bound me. I no longer allow the feelings of being rejected or being offended stay in my life, I bring it to Him knowing that He will not reject me, He will not be offended by me He has washed me and I am pure before Him because of the blood. He sets the captives free we don't have to be in bondage to sin or to our feelings. but we have to want to let them go as well. I do pray hard for those whose hearts are hurting, allow Him to heal you, to bind up your wounds. Yes people will offend us they will reject us but we don't have to let those things hurt us, we must not allow those things to stop us from loving them with the love of Jesus.

May God's grace be with you


Dear Jay,

God bless you for not being afraid to nail us! We all need more truth!

I have to admit that even tonight I was struggling with whether or not to continue attending our new Wed. night home Bible study, which I am privileged to lead, although it is in another couples' home, or to just stay home and study my own materials which are deeper into some things of the Lord. It is work to put up with each other, is it not? I know that fellowship and unity are so important, and God has taught me that I better not forsake the assembling, but it does get hard. Or are those my thoughts and voices trying to get me to stay home and do my own thing? I've heard a lot of voices lately that I don't think are mine or the Lord's. I have a hard time with procrastination, and following up on details. Some are very important ones to my job!

We are plagued with foul spirits that try to trip our every turn. I am trying my best to answer the call of God on my life, but I am sometimes in such a cloud of chaos that I can't hear Him clearly and I end up losing ground. I agree with you that everything we need for life and liberty are ours for the asking, but how do we overcome?? Yes, I plead the blood and speak the word of my testimony. I put on the armour of God, I worship, I pray, I read my Bible. There is a battle going on! We lack discipline in our ranks, of that I am sure of. I am not disciplined. I need structure! I am distractible and can't seem to focus. I need more Jesus!!

Thanks for listening!
Love in Him, He is the answer!!!!!!

Jay, May God Bless you and your ministry. I am sorry that I didn't read this sooner, part 2 arrived today and here I'm reading part1... You make great "points" about Christians whom are not listening and looking to Our Lord, I know because lately I've been starting to pray for guidance and preparation of His will in these later days.. I have not been available totally to Our Lord Jesus and need to get on the path again.. I realize I have not been the leader I should have or should be for my family, Lord willing, He will continue His mercies and guide me! Thank you for holding His "flashlight" in the "cave".. Till we talk again, May God Bless You and Your Loved Ones!

Randy Clayton.


Thanks for that message. I definitely needed to hear that. I'm not the "know it all" but rather one of the ones who have been hurt by the others. I still have confidence in myself, and do understand that the strength I have is given by God. He is what has saved me, that I am most definitely sure of.

Thank you again.

Yours in Christ,

Hi Stefanie, Thanks for that. This inner strength that you have is something I am going to be thinking about. Usually when we think of our confidence in a spiritual sense, it is something that we seem to have to put away but "given by God" is of a different sort. We can certainly use that to His glory, can't we.


Hi Lightship,

This letter below was sent to me and now to you because he has asked us to pray for him. Woody responded to me on the second Elijah Syndrome post. Although he says that I have been heavy handed and flippant with it, we must look a little deeper. First he sys he is convicted, which is inward, then that turns into outward blame of others, then on to me. Obviously there is more to this in his case than the Elijah Syndrome but he is waiting for an answer from me and I though we could discuss his problem in helping with what to say.

I think that he overlooked the parts of the newsletter where I talked of gentleness, love and understanding because he has been hurt in the past and is hard for him to trust people. He has had bad experiences and unhealed trauma. His transference, in my opinion is standing in the way of healing. Like I said before, many people just need to get over it. That is of course easier said than done.

I have had times of depression myself, maybe all of us have. Let us seek the Lord on this and find some help for him. He has been on the latter rain list for a couple of years now and had many good things to say in the past.

On another note, Paul Weigel sent his regrets to me personally and left the group. Due to all of the work he is doing with his radio station in Canada, he cannot find the time to get involved. I wished him well.


Dear Jay,

This explanation of the Elijah syndrome was very convicting to me. And I ask that you pray for me because perhaps a good bit of the mental illness with which I have suffered is a result of this syndrome. So please pray for me and if you're willing get other people in the group to pray for me as well because I am almost out of the tunnel. While you are obviously extremely wise and for the past 3 years you have always opened my mind and blessed me with the meat that you provide you are subject to fallibility.

Many times the faults that we are most cognizant of in others we ourselves struggle with. Perhaps there is a little Elijah syndrome in you as well. While I understand your zeal for Christians to stop setting themselves up in contrast to the more mainline, catholic, and institutional churches I believe that your analysis of the Elijah syndrome was a little condemning and heavy handed. We as christians have a tendency to in a spirit of oversimplification attribute every problem to selfishness or self-centeredness or self absorption. It supports are theology that all problems come from the self. But in truth many times self-absorption comes after rejection and insecurity have set in, and rejection and insecurity in my opinion are much greater foes than self absorption.

Think about Jay, if people are constantly telling you that you're no good, that you're scum, that you'll never amount to anything, that you're a crack pot very often the natural human response is either to wallow in self-hatred or self-loathing or to overcompensate and become prideful and say, "They're beneath me anyway, I am a prophet of God!!" Now obviously the best way to respond is to forgive and see them in the balance of who they are but that takes a lot of strength and maturity that it takes a while to develop.

Jay I believe that in your last letter you lacked compassion and understanding and tolerance. That you only dealt with one layer of the Elijah syndrome. When we see someone who has persecuted and wounded by that persecution if we simply correct them for the symptoms of their pain without acknowledging the legitimacy of their grievance then we are oversimplifying and faultfinding ourselves. Elijah may have reacted to his persecution with doubt and immaturity but it doesn't change the fact that he was persecuted. If we act as though all persecuted people are the ones who are 100% at fault for removing themselves and becoming isolated then we negate Christ's statement that "temptation must come, but woe unto to those through whom it comes."

In your breakdown you said that it's not the institution of the church that is the problem it's our own hearts. Jay that is imbalanced and simply not true. We must minister to the hurting and those experiencing the Elijah syndrome are hurting. If we accuse them of being self absorbed and act as though that's their only real problem then we run the risk of them becoming even more self-absorbed as a result of our accusation. self-absorption is a problem which all people suffer from, and prophets suffering from the elijah syndrome don't necessarily suffer from it any more than any body else. We are constantly offering diagnoses as though we have all been to medical school instead of just healing the sick as our savior did. Diagnoses aren't all bad, but because we are imperfect so too our diagnoses imperfect.

You know Jay I am coming out of mental illness because of faith and trust and a prayer style that the Lord gave me, and because Catholic theology in many ways helped me to resolve certain things that had been causing internal conflict. The Catholic and Mormon notion that there is hope for people to come to Christ after death, really helped me. But anyway Jay when I was hurting the most a dear friend of mine told me to get out of myself so that I could be good for others. He acted as though before becoming mentally ill I hadn't done quite a bit of good for others. Well trust me Jay, his words weren't some good shot in the arm of tough love that got me going, rather his words were thorns in my side that slowed the process of my recovery.

As someone who has perhaps never experienced mental illness it is easy for you to flippantly attribute things to self-absorption rather than embracing the dimensions and percentages of things more. I hope and pray that the Lord doesn't teach you a lesson in this regard by allowing you to fall into the bondage of mental illness. Because trust me, when your there, some oversimplified explanation that your real problem is self-absorption simply will not help you. So please brother please pray for me and fast for me, and please pray and fast for people like me. Trust me, I believe that your heartfelt and compassionate prayers and your fasts and supplication may potentially do alot more than your analysis ever could.

Love always,

Woody Lucas

Hello Jay. These are just some thoughts I have about Woody's condition and his reply to you. Hope this helps.

In Eph. 4:14, it says that we are no longer children. Into the life of every youth there comes an hour when there awakens in him the consciousness that he is no longer a child. When he realizes his own separate personality, when he begins to think, to judge, to act for himself, and when, because he has the ability, he has also the right to be self-controlled, in that hour he becomes a young man.

We are responsible for our soul. We have a soul. We are a soul. Our thinking personality---for that we are responsible. We cannot ignore the fact that we come to a world where men have fallen, but where men have been redeemed. The true God, in whom we live and move and have our being, has sent His Son into the world to set us an example, that we should follow in His steps. He has died for our sake, but He has risen and ascended to the right hand of God to receive gifts for men, gifts for us; and we are responsible in regard of the gospel of Jesus Christ, whether we will receive Him or whether we will refuse Him; whether we will become a son of the living God, or choose to go an orphan through the world.

We are responsible for what we take in, as our mental and moral culture, for the development of our faculties---of observation, of reason, of memory, for the wise use and the strong growth of all our powers.

Writing to the Corinthians, St. Paul gives this good advice: 'In understanding be men.' You are perhaps familiar with Francis Bacon's well-known saying, "Reading maketh a full man, conversation a ready man, and writing an exact man"; and St. Paul's advice to young Timothy covered very much the same ground when he said: 'Give attention to reading, to exhortation, to teaching'. In other words, we should be diligent to what we allow ourselves to entertain. How do we convey these things without seemingly stepping on toes? It will be only by what the Holy Spirit can convey, that will be of any lasting help.


Hi Jay,

This is my response to Woody. By the way, thank you for patiently going the distance with me when I was going through it.

Love, Mary

Hi Woody,

You touched my heart with your letter to Jay and I wanted to communicate some love to you. I do know to a large extent what you are going through and can feel the pain you feel as I read your words.

The account in 1Kings19 when Elijah fled from Jezebel gives insights into his psychology and how God met him where he was. You are right to point out the need for compassion, understanding and tolerance in dealing with someone suffering from the Elijah syndrome, and the fact that you speak up about it shows to me that you are in a Godly process here formulating a ministerial approach that you will use yourself.

Maybe I just see things differently but what touches me of the early part of this account is God's tender response in feeding him and seeing him rested, and then the words "The journey is too great for thee". I like to think of Jesus represented here as the angel of the Lord, and in His words see that loving face full of concern and a readiness to help Elijah proceed in his Spiritual and physical journey. Yes, we need to be more like Him.

Jezebel is a bully, and she is in the church, the workplace, the home environment and local neighbourhood, and anywhere else where prophetic people live and move. Once we have run from her, like Elijah did, she has succeeded in her main objective and we have now become her victim. It is an uncomfortable realization that we are vulnerable in this way, and so it was for Elijah.

Isolated, it is a lonely journey but one where every step is made with God. All the props removed, there are many other things besides personal healing with which we have to deal, and all of it seems to cut like a knife - the condition of the church, the inability to bring about any change, the ineffectiveness of any human or fleshly approach however well-meaning, the dreadful responsibility to do things right, the sense of personal impotence - and then on top of that to hear the word of God through our brethren is like salt upon our open wounds. It seems to be all pain.

But, even though with Elijah the worst seemed to have happened, as it may do with us, yet there is a Godly process at work and we may not stand still. We may rest, we may sleep, we may nourish ourselves up.but in Spiritual terms, we may not stand still.

A little further on in his Spiritual journey Elijah must face God with his complaint. How shy we are still to meet God like he did. But the situation is intolerable and God uses that to give him the backbone to speak up. He will not be pushed into second place while Elijah goes in circles around his own sufferings, self-absorbed. His man of God must speak. And when he speaks he will hear. And when he hears, he will do, because he knows his God, and that He loves him, and knows what is best, and what is around the next bend.

In God's answer, notice how he gets to the heart of Elijah's anguish, knowing the real reason for his crying out, and knowing the solution. The solution was, to paraphrase, "Elijah I know the end from the beginning. Now you have met me in your suffering I can heal you. In this was a greater equipping for you. Get up, there is work to do."

Woody, you are a man of God, you have work to do too. If the enemy is suggesting to you that it is all pointless, under no circumstances believe him, he is the father of lies. When you emerge from your tunnel, man, that light that was up there at the end is going to be shining all around you. Perhaps we will be privileged to see it and be there with you. Meanwhile Woody, God bless you, you are precious.

Love from Mary

Hi again all,

PS I hope you didn't mind my responding to Woody instead of to you Jay, I was just moved that way.

I think it is really hard to communicate sweetly when you feel so violated and hurt by the people who should have been able to love you the best, but Woody does well to share his view. Maybe he is more healed than he realizes. I seem to remember I internalized it too long and crept about looking ancient. And I couldn't seem to break the self-absorption bit because everything seemed to relate to my hurt. Jezebel had successfully bullied me, and I was behaving like a victim.

But, like you say, we have to get over it. Experience teaches like books can't.

Jesus says John 8:29

"And he that sent me is with me; the Father hath not left me alone; for I do ALWAYS those things that please him."

When Jezebel has successfully bullied, she silences that cry "always" of Jesus within us, so that through fear, or stress, exhaustion, self-disgust, self absorption, unhealed wounds, damaged perceptions, and if we are not careful, sin - we are prevented from going about the Father's business. That compounds the hurt to desperate proportions, because we have been prevented from doing what we love the most, and what we have been called to do.

I am thinking though that this place of awful self-realization, the "I am not better than my fathers", is the same place that Paul was in with his thorn in the flesh, and that far from being the bell that tolls doom upon our potential to do great exploits for God, it is the springboard to great power, in that His strength is made perfect in weakness.

Self-absorption may have its place, for a season, and if it brings us to a place where we transfer our confidence from ourselves wholly over to God, well and good. We are on the way.

Love, Mary

Hi Tim, you are a good friend. And thanks for your insight Mary. These are great things to get back to him with.

Together, we may be able to help him but a lot of it depends on Woody himself. He will be reading about us talking about him and I should let him know what is going on before the next edition. As I was thinking about what to write back to him, the main thing on my mind was love. Woody has to know that there are people out there that love him. We have all been hurt and Woody is right in that Elijah in this case was under a real threat, it wasn't imagined, his life was really in danger but it is not the cause of trauma that is so devastating, it is the effect. Some people withstand attacks and verbal abuse better than others. People in the prophetic are often times more sensitive than others and the hurt can linger. I really think that we are all agreeing here that is is a simple case of getting over it. Doing that may not be easy and it may take time but we are spiritual people here that need to put our trust in God for our healing, the self absorption part is simply letting it get to you instead of dealing with it, putting it behind and moving on.

I understand here why others are not responding, the last edition contained thoughts and words like dirty laundry being aired out in public but I did give ample warning on that. What we have to look as is what is going on with my site in the long run. Yes, what we discuss and what people respond to me about privately is broadcast to over 1400 people on the latter rain list and published on a site that gets over 1300 visitors a day. They all know that this is what it is all about in my ministry. These words, our victories and sometimes our failures are ministering to many people. These discussions are a healing balm for many people.

This is not new to Tim and Mary, they know exactly who they are writing to when they respond to me. Others now can be able to understand but please do not be afraid to get involved with what is happening. The Lord has a big part in bringing us together in unity and restoring the church and healing the divisions and wrongs that history has put up with for the last two thousand years. My responses on the latter rain list are really your responses. Our minds need to be renewed, this is not business as usual or a social club from my perspective, it is my ministry to bring consensus. That is disappointing to some I know, but to others, it can be a way to minister and to be ministered to. When we cast our burdens on the Lord as a group, love those around us and allow Him to speak through us, He is doing the ministering. People may need to know what is going on in your life right now, don't by shy. Again, you are loved and not alone.

I am hoping that at least there are others out there praying for Woody. This is what he requested of us.


Hi to everyone, but especially to Jay,

I had just joined the group and have read so many of things you post here, it is hard to know when to step in and when not to, even though I know the Lord wants us to speak for Him, my flesh immediately pulls back. But I read this email and it really encouraged me. I finally read the Elijah Syndrome parts 1 & 2 I had put them away for another day, well I know now I should have read them before, I just want to say thank you for obeying the voice of the Lord, I know it is hard and the words are hard, just keep being obedient - it is not time to placate the flesh - We all believe Jesus is coming back and since we know that we must also know He is coming back in judgment and we must be ready, no longer allowing our flesh to rule us.

Well back to the Elijah Syndrome - I first looked up the word Inertia - boy did that hit home, the lord had given me the word sluggish for my own life, many months before, I do study hard etc but I have not truly started walking in my calling - hiding in my cave. Of course wanting to share what I believe the Lord has been giving me, but afraid to step out - I joined the group because what I have been studying was exactly what you guys talk about here. I knew God was giving me away to step out and not even being face to face with someone and I couldn't even do that. How foolish I am. But the Lord is so gracious and so merciful, He brings other people who are not quite so afraid - to coax us out.

To Woody and all who are hurting - life is pain - but it so much more painful without Him - people will disappoint, upset us, reject us, offend us, but Jesus won't if we truly allow Him to Heal us - we may not be able to get over it, but we can get through it. Only to find Him with His arms open wide. Truly accepting the invitation with our Wedding Garment on.
Praise Him always.

Thank you for your love.

With the love of Christ


Hi Angel,

What you say about getting through it is really helpful here. When we experience intense pain in our lives, it can really hurt and getting over it can really be hard. Jesus still wants us to live for Him however and if we are to do that we must get through difficult times with the kind of healing that makes us even stronger. Remember Job? He went through those times of trial and suffered tremendous loss. His friends thought he should just curse God and die but Job was faithful to the end and the Lord restored to him even more than he had before.

You are so right. Jesus' arms are open wide. All we need is to do is leave our burdens behind and run to Him.


Isa. 57:10.---' Thou wast wearied with the length of thy way; yet saidst thou not, There is no hope: thou dist find a quickening of thy strength; therefore thou wast not faint.'

The context shows that the words were spoken to Israel of the time of her apostasy. They describe an attitude of willfulness and of the unteachableness of a worldly heart. Yet at the same time, as so often in the generous breadth of the prophet's mind, they reveal a kindly feeling of honest admiration as of one who should say, Thy endurance was worthy of a better cause. 'Thou wast wearied with the length of thy way; yet saidst thou not, There is no hope, Thou didst find a quickening of thy strength.' The picture is that of one who has traveled a long road and is utterly wearied with the journey, who yet will not give up hope, and, as he definitely puts aside the thought of failure, feels his strength revive, grips his load with a firmer hand and marches on.

The verse is extraordinarily modern. For what it carries with it by implication is the whole system of teaching which is based upon the power of mind to control bodily life. In the margin of the Revised Version the Hebrew of the last clause, is, 'Therefore thou wast not sick.' Sickness or faintness of spirit is perhaps intended, but the health of the body is clearly involved too. Thus we touch here the principles of mental healing.

There are a good many forms which these principles have taken in our time. The most outstanding is, of course, Christian Science. Then we have in America the Emmanuel Movement---a movement connected with Protestant churches which seeks to combine bodily healing with the ordinary proclamation and teaching of Christian truth. And, again, there are in our own country, as well as elsewhere, many smaller bodies of Christians who practice faith-healing. The one thing which all these alike rest upon is the power of ideas imparted to the mind to strengthen the bodily life. The method is not new. Indeed, mental healing is probably the oldest form of the healing art. Before men knew how to gather drugs from herbs they prayed to their gods for relief, and through prayer found some gift of strength.

In ancient times a great medical school was to be found on the Greek island of Cos. There, under the sanction of the altars of Greek deities, a treatment was given to sick people which combined mental with physical remedies. The uncovered ruins of this great establishment occupy a large area, stretching over a terraced hillside backed by a cypress grove, and looking out upon a splendid prospect of mountain and sea. The great pile of buildings which formed the home of the school of medicine at Cos comprised many rooms for sleeping in, ranged round the temple courts, for what was known as "incubation," or sleeping in a temple, was an approved remedy for sickness. But there were other rooms as well as halls devoted to the pursuit of art, and the drama, and literature, and music, where the Greek priest-doctors brought to bear upon their patients' illnesses all the influences of a well-educated mind, as well as the benefits arising from baths and drugs.

There are reserves of life in us all which we seldom draw upon. It rests very much with our will whether we are weakly or strong, and especially it depends upon this---the measure of our expectation of good. 'Thou wast wearied with the length of the way; yet saidst thou not, There is no hope. Thou didst find a quickening of thy strength; therefore thou wast not sick.' That, as the prophet saw, might be true of any man. He said it, as we have seen, of those who were on a wrong course. Wrong as that course was, the law of life held good for them that, within certain limits, the spiritual elements in man can rule the physical, and the bad man who has the will to hope finds his powers revive.

Now if that is true as a general law of man's life, how much it means for the man who is living in obedience to God. How much more reason there is for the good man than for the bad man to refuse to say, 'There is no hope.' For if the moral bias of our life swings round insistently upon the side of right, we are in the main flow of the universe. The text, however, is for the hour when a man cannot see how the tide is flowing towards the good, when the obvious facts of life seem against him, when he is utterly tired with the long road which has no turning in it. 'Thou wast wearied with the length of thy way.' Now is the time to realize that the help God sends is likely to be just in that long way and through its very lengthiness. If He can make us resist the temptation to hopelessness He will make us stronger men. Let us learn from our social service. If a man is sunk in poverty, it is better to give him work than to give him money. If he is ailing, we say, if we can, something like this, 'Silver and gold have I none, but . . . in the name of Jesus Christ walk.' And in like manner God will surely answer our cries of distress through us rather than through our circumstances. For God never acts through us without leaving us after the action better and abler persons than we were before.

This is an attitude we owe not only to ourselves, but also to others. For how easily we change the temperature of each other's hopes and fears, with all that they mean of moral power or weakness. You will recollect Charles Dicken's story The Haunted Man, the story of the man who, because he could not face out and conquer his own sad memories, closed with the offer of a ghost to cancel in him the memory of sorrow, and to enable him to remove from others, too, the remembrance of grief. And you will recall how, wherever he went, the haunted man cast a shadow over people's lives, turning happy families into vexed and quarrelling ones, because he took from them the sympathy-roots out of which our best happiness springs. The truth of the story at its broadest is that we are able, wherever we go, by our own courage or cowardice to cast sunshine or shadow upon the lives of others. And sometimes the influence which passes from us is a conscious one. The Seventy-Third Psalm tells the experience of one who was greatly driven to doubt God, as he saw wickedness prospering around him.

He was tempted to say,
Surely in vain have I cleansed my heart,
And washed my hands in innocency.
But he did not say it---
If I had said, I will speak thus;
Behold, I had dealt treacherously with the
generation of thy children.

In our very souls we must be loyal to each other, remembering that faith and hope and love at all times are moral powers, making for the strength and the health of the whole man, and that in times of stress, when the way is long and wearisome, the men whose life is guided by the revealed will of God must find for his own sake, and for the sake of his comrade, that the challenge of weariness becomes the occasion of the will to hope---hope that is sure and certain in the righteousness of God.

In Christ, timothy.

Many I have seen and also corresponded with on the internet are very depressed. Mostly because of the Iraqi war, and also money problems. I so hate to be around depressed people. It gives us lots of things and people to pray for. I know Christians can become depressed, but they should not stay there. God's Holy Spirit helps me to snap out of the prayers of others.

You all take care, and please pray for my family. My 9 year old Gt Grandson, Mackhale, is now in the hospital psychiatric ward, where they are monitoring him for ADD (attention Deficit Disorder). He is now on 19 daily doses, and needs your prayers. Thank you.


Hi Marilyn,

Sounds real important to me. I would like to know more about your Grandson. I am thinking that 19 doses of drugs that people without the compassion necessary to heal your son can do him real harm in the long run. Do you know what they are giving him? I suppose that there might be some kinds of medication that do good these days but I think we should be real careful.


Hi Jay & Marilyn

Marilyn I have read re your grandson and also Jay have read your reply. As I read Marilyn's, the Scripture sprung to mind from Matthew 17:21 "This kind goeth not but by prayer and fasting". I feel that you are in for the long haul here Marilyn, but God is faithful and I am sure that He will bring healing and deliverance to your grandson. I am absolutely staggered at the amount of medication that he is being prescribed and fed!! Nahum 1:7 states the following:

"The Lord is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble and He knoweth them that put their trust in Him." Hebrews 10:35 states "Cast not away your confidence which hath great recompense of reward".

I will pray for your grandson Marilyn. I will also (if it is OK with you) ask friends that I pray with on Tuesday nights and Thursday mornings here in prayer meetings to pray also.

God bless you

from Joan

Thanks Joan,

To add to this, I was reminded of a verse in Revelation:

Re 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

The word "sorceries" here is from the Greek word "Pharmakia," where we get our word that describes drugs. Or should I say, prescribes drugs.


Hi all,

Just a note on this. My father has been a pharmaceutical rep for almost 30 years, so I know much about these drugs and what they can do to a person. There are cases where some prescriptions might be necessary, for instance I'm taking a prescription for hypertension, and it's possible I could have a stroke if I weren't taking it. But there are drugs being given out like candy to people today. Anyone, and I mean anyone, can find a primary care physician to prescribe an anti-depressant for them. The doctor usually only wants the patient to use these drugs until they get through the rough times, however, more often than not, a person becomes dependant on them and continues to use them for many years. Those drugs and others like them (ones that affect someone's mind and personality) should be only be used in certain cases, if at all, in my humble opinion.

In Christ,


Your message to Woody really ministers to me. As usual, your Spirit of Grace shines radiantly and Divine Wisdom rings clearly.

Love you,


Hi sweet Peg,

I am trying to figure out what it was that made me stand up to the bullying. It has come from every quarter I can think of. When it was a local youth and I had to get the authorities help, I remember a policeman saying to me "you can't keep expecting others to stand up to him for you." I didn't like it at the time, it was the way he wanted me to change MY behaviour, when I knew I hadn't done anything wrong..... Trying to apply that to the Elijah discussion and the mental health matter, Jezebel inflicted serious psychological damage. In the church it seems to me difficult to get over the concept that psychological is not the same as imaginary, and as Jay points out the effect of the trauma was the problem area rather than the trauma itself. But I am thinking the policeman had a point.....and I was prideful in not accepting it immediately. Spiritualizing, there has to come a time for standing up against Jezebel personally in the Spirit, and saying "you will do this to me NO MORE" Until that time comes, we surely must cover each other, carry the weak, be a shoulder to cry on, bear each others' burdens, love each other like we are supposed to do, not judging but helping, and not withholding the seasonable strong meat where required.

Glad you have a willing heart to do that Peg.
Love you too,


How interesting, Mary. This bullying thing seems to be a central theme for me right now in my healing process. I've been working on this intention: "To resolve issues connected to applying myself to "effectual fervent prayer."

I have sensed off and on that I was born to be a prayer warrior. I remember various times, but one specifically where a stranger, a man in the church I was attending at the time, approached me during prayer time and laid his hands on me and prayed for the peace of God to intervene on my behalf. He was led of the Spirit to lay hands on me and gave me a message afterward. He said he saw in the Spirit that I was a prayer warrior.

That kind of awareness has bugged me because as much time as I spend listening, meditating, and "talking" with God, I know deep in my heart I do not apply myself to the "effectual fervent prayer of a righteous being" that James alluded to in James 5:16. Now that I am learning how to do a self-session in Healing Way, I have approached the Spirit with this problem and asked for healing so I can get to that place where I am truly being the prayer warrior that others have implied that they see in me. I know we are all called to pray without ceasing, but I think there is also a special gift of faith in prayer that some have and I wonder if I'm one of those who had received it and have been "bullied" out of using it. Several days ago the Spirit said to me, "Intercede for the fears of my people." I began to recognize fear in more subtler forms than ever before and told the Spirit I don't know how to intercede for them. His answer was for me to begin to allow myself to "walk through them while holding His hand, and when I have passed through them I will know how to intercede."

So, I was guided to start doing Healing Way session on this intention of resolving all the issues connected to applying myself to fervent effectual prayer" on March 14. I was told I have 18 tiers on this intention -- all that means is that the healing process with take 18 sessions. Today I was on session 7. It was about a time when I was 10 through 11. God had sent me a beautiful stray dog -- a lap dog, part beagle and whatever else, terrier maybe. I named him Barney. He was badly needed and became a great source of comfort to me. He was very smart and communicative and very loyal and loving to me. We were inseparable unless I was in school, after which, I would come around the corner at the end of the block, maybe about eight houses up the street from our house. Barney was always on the porch of our house waiting for me to turn that corner. When he saw me he would charge up the street and leap into my arms, squirming and licking me to death.

My father was a bully and didn't like the dog. He often expressed contempt toward Barney, occasionally kicking him or throwing him out the door (maybe for piddling or doing something else wrong, I don't remember). I recall feeling the injustice and always comforting Barney over my dad's abuse. Of course that strengthened Barney's and my love and loyalty to each other.

When Barney was 1-2 years old, a day or two after Christmas, my mom had asked me to take my little brothers up to the Ben Franklin store (about five blocks from our house) to spend their Christmas money gifts. My brothers were about four and two-and-a-half at the time. I was eleven. Barney followed us down the street. I chose not to walk him back home, but let him tag along. We had four block to walk down safe streets and through a park to the back of a shopping plaza. Then we had to cross at the light of a very busy intersection to get across the street to another plaza where Ben Franklin was. Standing at the light, I was holding Barney in one hand and, with the baby brother in between, the three of us held hands together waiting at the crosswalk. Before the crosswalk light turned green, Barney saw something (another dog?) caddy corner across the intersection. He leaped out of my arms and the next thing I knew he was hit by a big truck. A lot of chaos occurred in the middle of the intersection when I ran out to save Barney. All the traffic stopped and a woman got out of her car to help me and my brothers. She had a blanket in her trunk. We wrapped Barney in it and I held him while she drove me and my brothers to the nearest vet. Barney died on the vet's table.

During my Healing Way session, the Spirit revealed to me how this event affected my faith and my prayer life. Barney was my first true love and my first deep loss and broken heart. My childlike prayers for Barney's life appeared to be unanswered. My grieving time was lengthy and my father despised my tears. He was no comfort to me. So, as you said, Mary, it wasn't the trauma itself that caused the damage, it was the residual affect. The adversary used the event to distort my perception of God's love and make me feel abandoned and powerless in prayer. This was the work of "the bully" --that is, the devil himself.

The Spirit ministered to me in a lovely way to teach me how this trauma was one of 18 major things that contributed to my withdrawing my faith and avoiding "effectual fervent prayer." Do you see what I am trying to say here? I expect that when I'm finished with the 18th tier of this intention, that the way will be cleared for me to apply myself to intercessory prayer like never before. John says that Jesus was manifest to destroy the works of the devil. Jesus said the devil came to "steal, kill and destroy, but He, our Great and Good Shepherd, came that we might have life and have it more abundantly." In my case, the works of the devil was to come and steal my love and faith, to destroy my ability to reach my full potential, and to even kill my spirit if that were possible. But praise God our Father that greater is He that is in us than He that is in the world."

Hope this makes sense as a response to what you shared with me, Mary. I will continue to work on the "bully" concept as you suggested. More will be revealed and we will help each other gain a delivering knowledge that we can use to minister to others who have need of the same comfort wherewith we are being comforted. Agreed?

I testify all these things in Jesus' Name.
Love you.

Hi Peggy, and all,

Thanks Peg for coming back on this subject. It is much in my mind just now not only because of the Elijah topic but also because of personal circumstances. I will elaborate as far as I can.

First though I was with you all the way in your account of the attempt to disable your ministry early on. I see many things here that I recognize that have psychological repercussions which domino into spiritual wildernesses. I am very grateful of your description because this is me finding I am not alone....that the things I have gone through, so have you. And you know if there are two of us, logically we cannot convince ourselves there are no others hahaha take that Jezebel!

From previous discussion I think we agree that the battle we are facing is a spiritual one and needs to be fought with spiritual weaponry. In intercession, while it is our passion and constant habit to get alone with God, we have been without brothers and sisters to share it with much.

A lot of what has happened to me the church generally can't help with. I wrote it all down recently and sent it to two online Christian counselling services which seemed entirely kosher. Neither of them replied to me. Not a peep. Sigh.

Anyway back to the bullying, like in the natural it robs you of your confidence and personal power, so it does in the spiritual: our ministries and giftings suffer and we are robbed of spiritual effectiveness. At home here I notice my spirituality is only tolerated if it will make compromises, settle for a good show, opt for silence rather than any meaningful discussion which might approach the is a kind of tyranny, and Jezebel forcing me into isolation.

But if God be for us, who can be against us? The battle I am fighting, we are all fighting, against the powers of darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places. I can remind myself of that when I am tempted to sink into "woe is me". We have this treasure in earthen vessels....I look like some old dumb pot, I know, but God knows what He is doing with me.

You have encouraged me to get to prayer and press in to the revealing of God's will. Like you I know there is more for me down this road of intercession than I have hitherto experienced. At last I have that sword poised and ready to slice up the opposition!

First things first, thank you for helping me on with my armour.

Love you Peg,

Hi Mary and everyone,

This is good stuff that you write regarding Elijah. As I read the verses that brought him to despair was the idea that he ran from Jezebel in fear for his life but his sufficiency was from God.

1 Kings 19:4-8 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die; and said, It is enough; now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers. And as he lay and slept under a juniper tree, behold, then an angel touched him, and said unto him, Arise and eat. And he looked, and, behold, there was a cake baken on the coals, and a cruse of water at his head. And he did eat and drink, and laid him down again. And the angel of the LORD came again the second time, and touched him, and said, Arise and eat; because the journey is too great for thee. And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God.

You are doing just that Mary, along with the people of God of course. You now know where your strength lies and it is so with a lot of us here that have gone through the same bullying tactics that come from that Jezebel spirit. What happens when we get together in love and unity is that we are able to help others through the same difficulties. We do great exploits when we put on that spiritual warfare, we fail when we do not.

I remember someone telling this group that there is no good that we can do because it said in the Bible that Jesus said no one is good. There is a lot of good that we can do when Jesus is there with us guiding and directing and a lot of good can come our way if we only let it.

There may be times that we have to despair but we have Jesus right there. He is our angel like Elijah had to give us what we need when we get down. All we have to do is drink and eat of Him.



What you said here is so profound.

"From previous discussion I think we agree that the battle we are facing is a spiritual one and needs to be fought with spiritual weaponry. In intercession, while it is our passion and constant habit to get alone with God, we have been without brothers and sisters to share it with much....At home here I notice my spirituality is only tolerated if it will make is a kind of tyranny, and Jezebel forcing me into isolation."

"and Jezebel ---forcing me into isolation---" "--we have been without brothers and sisters to share it(intercession and isolation) with much--"


When we go the extra mile to seek the face of God and have a passionate desire to serve as the Holy Ghost prompts us, we find we are considered different" perhaps "peculiar?" and definitely misunderstood within our own households, very different and misunderstood within our worldly communities, and often even different and misunderstood within the church congregations themselves whose members might quickly label us "fanatics." As a result, many of us learn to keep our inner walks to ourselves and in our isolation, we get spiritually bullied. Often our earliest wounds, often childhood wounds, block our spiritual visibility with spiritual, emotional and mental clouds of distortion, and only the Holy Spirit can bring the healing needed to carry us on the heels of His footsteps as He goes before us.

Elijah was a "fanatic." He fit the above description. Thank our Father for the wonderful Words of Scripture he has left us --including this encouraging account of Elijah who is a type of all believers who find themselves not fitting in" with the crowd whether it be family, community, or house of religion -- believers who, feeling isolated in an internal sense, are at the same time being bullied in the spirit realm by the spirits of Jezebel, even driven at times to their own caves of confusion and despair.

But Glory to the Most Powerful Eternal Name of Jesus Christ, the name of the Holy One who lives in us in the person of Holy Ghost and feeds us with His daily manna and satisfies our thirst with the pure water of the Word and the Spirit! Praise the mighty power of the cross and the blood that symbolically flows from Calvary to cleanse our thoughts and emotions so that we are continually set free to serve the Living God in our world just as Elijah was fed and cleansed and strengthened to continue His in our Lord's bidding to fulfill his own mission to the world. Worship the beauty of His holiness which is so abundant with one another here at Light Ship and anywhere else we find other true worshippers and servants.

We will overcome all the spiritual bullies one day at a time until all is fulfilled, not because we have any of our own strength and power, but because He who lives in us is Faithful and True and Able to accomplish all that He has set out to do in us and through us!

Hey you guys, just put up with me today, please. I guess I'm just on a roll. No cave for me today because I have you all! Ha! I find strength in my fellowship with all who are here. I thank Jesus for all of you.

Okay, I'll put a lid on it, now.
God Bless you all this wonderful day!


Rom. 8:31.---' What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

That question faces us every day. Things happen to us, and we make some response to them. We take up some attitude to them. Some of them we resent; some we welcome; some we resist; some depress us. It is a very useful thing occasionally to note what effect these things have had on our minds, and how we have met them. What have we said to these things?

It is a very important question, because the effect they have upon us, and the attitude we take to them registers itself within, making us what we are. It also produces an effect on the world in which we live. The real difference between two people is not in what happens to them, whether they are rich or poor, whether they are fortunate or unfortunate, whether they have sorrow to meet of life flows on like a sunlit stream that never ruffles the surface of their days. It is in the way in which they respond to these things. Put one man in prison unjustly, and he eats out his heart in resentful solitude till his soul becomes bitter and dark. But put St Paul or John Bunyan there, and the solitude becomes a spur to his imagination and an immortal book is born. Sorrow makes one man hard; it makes another equally soft and tender. One who has suffered will tell you how unjust the world is. Another will tell you how in his suffering he came to know the comforts of God as he had never known them when life was undimmed by a tear.

It all really depends on the response which each one makes to what meets him, and that is in our own hands. Most people forget this. We become so accustomed to meet things in certain ways---as automatic as raising our arm to ward off a threatened blow---that it does not occur to us that there may be a better way. When life puts something up to us we must do more than react in a mechanical way; we must respond. That takes our spiritual contribution in.

There are those who say to these things, "whatever happens is the will of God," and they preach the doctrine of submission. This doctrine of submission to the will of God has been preached to slaves and the victims of all sort of tyrannies. Men have been told to see in all calamities the judgments of God. One might well ask where would the advocates of such a view stop? Would they say to the man who has been swindled that he has been swindled by the will of God? This is not the teaching of St Paul, nor is it that of the Master. Christ would not allow that those eighteen on whom the tower of Siloam fell had been sinners above others; He would not call that event an act of God's. It was very probably the result of the fact that some builder scamped his work!

It will not do to blame God for the results of man's wickedness, cruelty, and folly. Human freedom is a fact, and sometimes a terrible fact. War, and fraud are the fruits of the misuse of that freedom, and they work havoc in human affairs. But we must realize that these things which are due to the misuse of freedom have only a limited power. They pervert the course of things, but they do not defeat God. Behind them God remains---an eternal force making for good. They come and go, but His love remains, urging towards life.

If we ought not to blame God for all the troubles that come to us, let us be quite sure that always God comes with the troubles if we will but let Him. He is always in every situation. And so what the chance happenings of this world shall really effect in us depends upon whether or no we face them with God, whether we allow God to be a partner in our lives. 'If God be for us who can be against us.' If we let God come into all the things which happen, even the sad and painful things, He will bring some real good out of them. He can make suffering bring forth beautiful effects, and poverty yield a noble self-possession, and the slander of man a wonderful forgiveness. And so even out of the whole set of facts and circumstances, some of which may be superficially very bad, God brings some really good result. The man who wrote these words had had an amazingly large share of bad luck. He had had illnesses and persecutions and poverty and slander and loneliness in his life. Yet he meant what he said, because he had lived with God.

I can only tell you what I have felt to be the only thing which makes life endurable at a time of real sorrow---God himself. He comes unutterably near in trouble. In fact, one scarcely knows He exists until one loves or sorrows. There is no "getting over" sorrow. I hate the idea. But there is a "getting into" sorrow, and finding right in the heart of it the dearest of all human beings---the Man of Sorrows, a God.

'What shall we say then to these things?' It is worth while to get into the habit of putting the question to the things that meet us. What shall we say to the sorrow that has invaded our home? What shall we say to the big disappointment that has dashed some hope to the ground? Some door has closed, perhaps; some opportunity has passed us by. What shall we say to the closed door? What shall we say to ourselves and to do it exactly what we first feel about it, making the burden twice as hard to bear? What shall we say to the man who has let us down; or done us some real injury? How shall we treat him? It matters tremendously for ourselves, and for the world in which we live. What shall we say to the difficulties of the present hour? Business is at a standstill; we have to cut down our expenses, to do without. The future looks dark; the stars go out one by one! What shall we say to these things? Are we going to make them a stimulus or a challenge, or are we going to let them become an irritant, or drive us to despair or to self-pity.

What did Paul say? His first reflection was 'If God be for us, who can be against us?' His first thought was to assure himself again that nothing, literally nothing, not even death, could be against him. Nothing need hurt, or demean, or degrade his spirit. On the contrary, because God was for him, everything in this clash between him and circumstances had possibilities of good. This faith robs everything of its power if we once get it into our blood. If we meet life in this confidence we shall find in it a transforming secret. And this faith will begin to produce in us new capacities for meeting life---courage, and kindness, and patience. Difficulty will work on us like a tough problem on the mind of the engineer, who knows that difficulty has always been the doorway of discovery.

The practical conclusion which forces itself upon us is that the misfortunes which come upon us need not conquer us. We need not be their victims. What God gives to those who seek Him is very largely just courage---courage to carry sorrow and go on with our duty; courage not to think about ourselves and keep busy serving others; courage to resist our own nature when it cries out for ease and pleasure; courage to brace ourselves and just endure. Why all the military language in the New Testament, in which the Apostles called on men to fight bravely, endure hardship, and wear the whole armor of God? Why the calls to watch? Because this is a world in which we have to meet every new day. Perhaps some day we shall see that they are really the onslaughts of evil. In any case, they have to be resisted, and that is why life has to be very much like a campaign. God's servants are the bold. Not the naturally strong---not the great in ability, not those whom the world counts great---but the bold who are bold with a boldness begotten of the fact that they know they fight with God on their side.

"Masters of fate"---that should be true of all Christians. Not people immune from the strokes of fate, but people who cannot be conquered by fate. And that is possible if we go up to meet every evil-stance in the decisions and acts of men, or the devil; in the strength that God gives.

In Christ, timothy.

Bless you for this Jay,

Yes I think that the spiritual food as you say, to eat and drink of Jesus, is the only sustenance that can satisfy a desperate heart. Although Elijah ran off in fear of his life, from his dialogue with God at the mouth of the cave it looks to me that it was the spiritual reality that brought him to despair, rather than any mortal fear alone.

The fact that he had run from Jezebel and seen himself in a new light made the spiritual picture all the more desperate. Self-realization alone he could cope with, I am sure he was no stranger to that, but what it signified spiritually was the source of unquenchable tears.

When God said through Paul "henceforth know ye no man after the flesh", He was getting us to view all our human relationships in a spiritual manner, I think to see things like He sees them, and that He has given to us the ministry of reconciliation -

My home situation has been appalling sometimes just in worldly terms, but by far the most painful thing is the spiritual picture, that while I am alone with God in my own household, many of my family are without Him entirely. Same as others here.

Maybe desperate is where God wants us. Desperate for change, in the church, in our homes, in the Spiritual climate. Maybe God couldn't return Elijah to His people without that kind of desperate heart. It would tend to heat up your prayers somewhat.

Lots of us have been looking for an exit because of how bad things have got on times -"take me home Lord".....I've said it too. But I know this, I have known God's hand on me mightily when I have been in that frame of mind in the past, when I had all that trouble in the church.

What will it take to get us to our knees in a unified way. The Spiritual sorrow that I know is in me, it seems God will not allow it to be expressed to any satisfaction yet. What do we need to do Jay? It is hard waiting.

Love from Mary

Hi Mary,

You said:

"What will it take to get us to our knees in a unified way. The Spiritual sorrow that I know is in me, it seems God will not allow it to be expressed to any satisfaction yet. What do we need to do Jay? It is hard waiting."

I once belonged to an apostle's group whose leader thought that it was his job to gather all the apostle's together so that we could come into one accord. When I tried to tell him that we must first get together in dialogue and put away what was dividing us, he cast me out like I was a demon. What I learned is that he was in charge without question and wanted us all to come into one accord with him as some kind of super apostle, to a man rather than to the precepts and love of Jesus. I trusted him and loved him and it hurt terribly when I was rejected and the hateful way that I was.

That was my spiritual trauma and I learned a lot. What the Lord did for me in that group is to let me know what kind of false authority is going on in the church and to do exactly what I told the man that we should do and God was calling me to it apart from people like that. What he was unsuccessfully trying to do is what Jesus will already be doing, gathering us together. While that group was spinning its wheels trying to bring us into one accord, Jesus is actively bringing us to one accord already through His spirit where we will be laying down our crowns, getting together in unity and humility, putting away what divides us and finally coming together.

So to answer your question, I believe that the Lord will be putting into the hearts of those who love Him the spirit of intercession, humility, love for others, unity and power in a mighty way. As long as we are crying out to Him and acting just like you are here with the expectancy and urgency and even impatience, He will not fail. And we need to keep doing it. We need to love each other unconditionally, overlooking each other's faults, watch for the false apostles and prophets that try to divide us. It is true, we are in a holding pattern right now and it is hard to wait. But it will be in His time, not ours. Will there be a unified solemn assembly? I hope so. What do we do? Keep praying and loving each other.

Two years ago I believed that the first seal was being opened and it was time to lay our crowns at Jesus' throne. I must admit that it was with some trepidation but I did put that on my site after I got some prophetic confirmation on it. Now we have been discussing that the white horse may be riding. It is God's time. We are the remnant according to the promise, us and all like us around the world.

As long as we stay united and love each other like we are supposed to, we are a part of the restoration of the temple made without hands. Many are waiting for a physical temple to be built but they are under a delusion, we are already building it. What we are waiting for is for all this to be revealed. It is hard waiting but we must be patient and not resort to all the bickering and false authority that our brothers and sisters are doing outside the temple walls.



I like what you share here. Your disclosure about the apostle' group experience really demonstrates a distinction between a proud, controlling spirit and a humble, serving spirit. "..he was in charge without question and wanted us all to come into one accord with him as some kind of super apostle, to a man rather than to the precepts and love of Jesus....While that group was spinning its wheels trying to bring us into one accord, Jesus is actively bringing us to one accord already through His spirit where we will be laying down our crowns, getting together in unity and humility, putting away what divides us and finally coming together."

What a day that will be, eh? Meanwhile, it is so reassuring to meet with others who feel the same. I'm grateful you had that experience then and that you were guided to do what you are doing here and elsewhere. From a small subjective standpoint, I don't know how I would be functioning right now if I felt that I was alone in how I experience Jesus. The validation I get from being a participant in this Latter Rain ministry and the fellowship I'm getting with a couple in particular has been helping me have confidence in what I hear the Spirit saying to me as an individual. Which brings me to agree with one other point of your message here.

"As long as we stay united and love each other like we are supposed to, we are a part of the restoration of the temple made without hands. Many are waiting for a physical temple to be built but they are under a delusion, we are already building it. What we are waiting for is for all this to be revealed."

I was having a wee bit of a struggle for a few days just recently. In that struggle I just kept reading the messages here, reading the Word wherever I was guided, and using all the weaponry of my warfare to the best of my ability. Suddenly the Spirit said to my spirit, "Rejoice!" My flesh didn't get it. It responded with even more heaviness, and then my thoughts started working along this line. "Rejoice? How can I rejoice? With all these problems I'm dealing with, there's no way I can rejoice." So I moped around in that bout of self-pity for a short while when I heard, "Rejoice because your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life!" So, I turned to that scripture in Luke and took it in the context that Jesus has given us authority to tread upon whatever comes against us. So, I said out loud, "It is written 'rejoice because our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life Whatever this is that I'm dealing with, get under or behind me, because I am going to rejoice in this word today!" And you know how the story goes from there, Jay. By the time I went to bed, I was back in the peace that surpasses understanding.

The best part of this event was the message I heard as I drifted off to sleep. "Rejoice also that you are a living stone in the temple of the Living God." My face leaked with holy joy and I thought gratefully about all of us who are living stones in the temple of the Living God. This is how I see the fellowship here. We are living stones in the temple of the Living God. Was way cool to hear you make reference to this very thing this morning. I love it when the Spirit gives us moments to see how much we all share the same Mind that is in Christ Jesus.

With Appreciation,


Thanks Peg,

What I see going on in many cases is that some of us just keep on praying and witnessing and serving the Lord and nothing seems to happen. Well, a lot may be happening in the spiritual, we just don't see it. The desperation that many people are under is I believe, a direct result of the frustration as well as the rejection and hurtful attitudes of others. These things are hard to take and can hurt very much.

Frustration to me however, is a lack of faith in Jesus taking care of business. It is as if, we just can't get it done and Jesus has abandoned us. Not true of course but the despair begins as soon as we doubt. You are lucky in that the Lord speaks to you clearly and you are able to be comforted with that. Others may not hear the Lord as well and don't have the faith to know that Jesus is there with us. They need the love and comfort of others who may be stronger, they need to get into the word more and be comforted in that way, they all need something that they are not getting, many of them. They then get discouraged and just want to quit. We are to be overcomers, that means not giving up. Never quit.

It is hard for me to rejoice also. I see the way that people in the church are and I get sad. The fact is that things are getting better. I only need to look around and see that even though so many things are getting worse and worse and worser and worser more. So, I need to rejoice more, I need to pray more, lift my hands up more and start looking up instead of down. I know that but it is hard anyway. I feel more like sackcloth and ashes than a dressed up wedding feast guy.

But like you say, I am also written in the Lamb's book of life. Time to rejoice, praise God anyhow and get that peace.


Hello to everyone,

It seems we really need to be in deep prayer for each other, everyone is going through some tremendous spiritual battles, I have really been up and down lately, truly being tested in my faith, we must know where we stand, Jesus is the ROCK, we have to stop letting things whatever they may be people, circumstances etc knock us off our Rock. Rejoicing seems so hard sometimes, but is exactly what we must do to get through our flesh and into the spiritual. So many of us are lonely even when we have friends, or spouses or even children especially if they aren't truly seeking the Lord, they don't understand, and that can be quite lonely. That is why we need to really come together in true unity - not of the flesh, but of the spirit - without division - breaking down the strongholds and just allowing Jesus be the focus. One as He is one with the Father. I pray right now, that we can come together and lift each other up out of the muck and the mire, We must pray for our enemies. their hearts may not be regenerated, praying blessings upon them, binding their minds to Christ, it really works, when we change our attitudes towards them, you will see a change in them. But you must truly love them with the Love of Jesus. (of course it is always easier said then done, but done it must be)

May God bless you all

In His Ultimate Love and Mercy,


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