Sir, we would see Jesus
Hi friends,
Been thinking on something we need to discuss.
The message of the cross will be on a lot of people's minds this week and for good reason. The Passion movie is the most significant event of the crucifixion since the real one. There will be a lot of questions asked and we need a church that is prepared to give the right answers.
What I have had to do on the latter rain list is take some controversial issues to try to offset extremes that have caused divisions. Once you can see differing sides clearly, you can root out what is evil in both and walk a straight line of truth. The prophetic spirit demands it and it must take the prophetic to confirm it.
Coming from the left restores some of the more forgotten issues disregarded by extreme conservatives. We need to all be on the same side - Jesus. Extremes from the right have led to a natural aversion to progress and liberality. Too many illiberals treat social programs as their enemy to conserve gain. Jesus is taking us out of that. To use the least of us to rebuild the waste places, we must work side by side.
This is a controversial, emotional issue to discuss. The kind we love doing. It causes heated passion, insults and political and religious mud-slinging that will be quenched and cast out with the evil that brought it. Have no fear. True unity starts when sides begin to agree through dialogue and this is my contention, we should all be seeing good and bad coming from the liberal left and the conservative right. With dialogue, we can bridge the gap by identifying the extremes, replacing them with righteousness and moving forward with the best of both.
So to discuss, we expose our sides, heal them and reconcile to those that have caused us offense for the sake of unity. I have a passion also, to see Jesus. The message of the cross is here. I need to see Jesus in the people around me but all I need to do is love and accept them and Jesus is there, the spirit is connected to the vine. The love of Jesus is living through us and we bear fruit. The question is, how far does that vine go? Tell me the truth now. Does it include liberals for you? Can you see Jesus dying on that cross as the most loving and liberating event in history and include whom we have reviled and cast stones?
Deliverance is coming across all platforms of life, religious or otherwise. People will be speaking up as well as listening, they will be asking tough questions, we need to set them on a road of love and forgiveness. It is up to the spiritual to bring a carnal church to maturity and that takes committed followers of Jesus and workers ready for revival.
Two questions only this time: What is a liberal? and What is a conservative?
We can take objective views later and see what happens but for now, speak your mind.
Get back to me.
Jay
My husband and I stumbled across your site after typing in the word nicolaitan... we have been experiencing trouble explaining the truth about submission so we were looking for new phraseology. Anyway, about 4 years ago the Lord gave me a prophetic song called Children of the Latter rain. It starts out with the phrase "Hear the Distant Thunder" and the first time it was presented in the church where I attended at that time it thundered. I thought it was my monitor acting up but it was thunder and it was a clear day. Since then a lot of changes have taken place, the Lord has me restoring the pattern or rehearsals through His feasts, doing them publicly at an amphitheater. The songs He has given me point to this act and are a way of teaching, the art of rejoicing and feasting unto the Lord. We study Torah on Saturdays and discuss the word openly in small groups. No pastor, just people studying the word.
My husband has a call to sit in the gates, like mentioned in Job 29.. his web site explains how God has implemented him. He recently protested the grand opening of Red Lobster res. at Time Square exposing the gross exploitation of the rain forest Indians. Very much in the style of David Livingstone, he's been slandered and not treated well by pastors etc. I mean he never went to mission school etc. he just did what he felt the Lord told him to do since there was no arm of the church that seemed to want to deal with the problem. We are Messianic Israel believers of the restoration of the whole house, Judah and Ephraim the sons of fresh oil the two sticks of Ezekiel 37 de-paganizing the church by thinking with Hebrew minds and doing the holidays. Moses said to do with the revelation of messiah.. very exciting times the church is kind of like Saul and we are kind the Tabernacle of David, outside the building etc.... but we don't pull people out of Saul's camp we just do what we do in the wilderness and people are coming out Isaiah 40 and we say those who have glad tidings we say to Judah, Behold your God........ they will listen and even envy us if we do it by Torah, the wonderful teachings God gave Moses for us to live by Matt.5:17 Jesus told us how to be great in the kingdom.
What is a conservative? Looking at your page I think a conservative is more of a radical figure of church? is it? or isn't it? Conservative: came from the word Conserve. Conserve what? I am terribly confused.
Ghstboba@
I've been doing a lot of thinking about church unity recently and I know you all probably have worked this out ages ago, but it seems to me that until we start really loving Christ and working together we are going to face greater and greater adversity.
It sort of follows on from my thinking about us being the bride. If we are to be the bride then we won't be ready until we work together. If we think about the divine nature of Christ the Spirit lusted against the flesh perfectly to form a perfect man. Christ has been the only person to have walked perfectly in the Spirit since he had a perfect relationship with his Father. We are all unbalanced because our divine nature is growing rather than already complete. In a sense even if one of us became complete we cannot be ready without everyone else.
Adam was made 'very good' but the Lord Jesus Christ was sinless and was perfected by suffering. For us to be a perfect man we have to also be perfected by suffering and this is going to lead to a huge falling away, but a strengthening of those who remain. For us to be a perfect man involves us all submitting to Christ and we are in for some challenging times if we don't start working together.
Israel never came out of Egypt until they cried to the Lord and he sent a deliverer. Likewise Christ is unlikely to deliver us from this world until we really want it. Scripture shows that Israel faced adversity corporately and the same principle applies to us. If we cry out as a whole we will get delivered. Those who draw closer to God themselves do not get delivered, but are compelled to witness. They are required to feel the pain of all. There is no such thing as comfortable Christianity except in our dreams.
Of course we have the Helper, but 2 Corinthians 1 shows clearly His comfort runs alongside sharing in the sufferings of Christ. As we grow in the knowledge of the love of Christ the things of this life become more acutely painful. We are called to view good and evil just like our Lord and Saviour.
It also seems to me that the 'man of sin' is the exact opposite to the 'perfect man' One is the thinking of man reaching total imperfection and the other the bride of Christ.
It looks increasingly to me as if we will come to a total divide, maybe with mainstream churches rejecting those with the Spirit as they are called to witness with increasing urgency. It also seems to me that the greatest danger lies not with those who deny the Spirit, but when the human spirit and the Holy Spirit are confused. That leads to a church which will persecute those who resist the world's influences. If that is the case then it would inevitably lead to a false church which the world will tolerate and a true church which will largely be house based.
That church would not be allowed the luxury of independence, but would be forced to give a final witness. Maybe something like that would result in a ministry of repentance and a final ingathering.
What would remain is a hardened church and a hardened world ready to listen to the way that church would misinterpret world events. in short a final deception. Those who received the power of God would then be in the position where they could be accused of 'false signs and wonders' Another scary thought I have is just imagine if the mark of God is literal and the mark of the beast is invisible. Those with the mark of God would be seen to have the mark of the beast. Particularly if the beast convinced the false church of his authority.
Anyway, these are just persistent thoughts I keep having, I really can't prove it as fact. Much love to you all, Tim
Thank you for your newsletter. I might add just a few thoughts for your consideration.
Yes, the Church has failed as a corporate body. But there are the overcomes, or the remnant. Whatever you choose to call us. Just as God called Israel ALL to be priests..they declined and God vested the responsibility in the tribe of Levi. As long as the tribe of Levi served God well all of Israel prospered. God now has turned to the overcomers and is pouring out His spirit on them...refer to Rev. chapters 2 & 3...the churches at time and representative of all ages. At the end of every letter to the church Jesus wrote: "and to the overcomers." It is through the remnant the church is blessed..God's blessings have always began from a few and spread to the many. Overcomers are NOT an exclusive club. For we are A L L called to overcome.."and they overcame by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony." The choice rests with every individual Christian. It is not an easy road. That is why Paul says we are to "count the cost" before proceeding to walk in the spirit.
As far as the "church house" you are right. It matters not where we are. For WE ARE the church. Where ever we walk, WE are the Church!! I visit the church house as God gives me grace. And yes, they are in bondage. But so was I and by God's grace I came out. There are but a few of us. But, there were only a few loaves and fishes. My pray is for the Church. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they SHALL be filled. We do need to be hungry to be filled..do we not?
Grace and Peace
Curtis
Hi everybody,
It has been quite a while but now's the time to send out something to the list.
Barb and I went to a fantastic couple's seminar over the week-end and I got back all jazzed up. Anyway, an e-mail from a confused reader prompted me to start thinking of liberal and conservative differences as a good topic to discuss.
Here's what I got so far, thought I would give you an advance preview in case you have anything to contribute before I send it out.
----------------------------
Thinking on some things. What I have had to do is take some controversial positions to try to offset extremes that have caused divisions. Once you can see differing sides clearly, you can root out what is evil in both and walk a holy direction. What has resulted in coming from the left is to restore many issues that have been disregarded by extreme conservatives because of a natural aversion to progress and liberality. Too many of them
treat social programs as their enemy to protect mammon and turn their energies toward materialism. Jesus wants us to reach out to the poor and it is in that message to them that brings us to glory. That said, we need to take a more objective look as to what a righteous liberal agenda really is and where they have gone wrong. Deliverance is needed across the whole spectrum of society in this world, religious or otherwise. A few siritual Christians will speak up but we must all teach ourselves and others to renounce evil as well as denouncing it. It is up to spiritual Christians to bring a carnal church to maturity, ones willing to stay connected to the vine. We need to revive ourselves first though.
Some good examples that can only come from the left are the liberal causes that the remnant has always championed such as civil rights and in exposing human rights abuses, tearing down the spiritual high places and of our responsibility to the poor.
Christians are aghast at the rapidity that our religious rights have been violated and have been powerless to stop it. It is up to this generation to restore what the enemy has stolen. The twentieth century saw a conservative church turn its back on the social gospel and then relinquish the power of change to those most antagonistic to them. They then confused the word liberal with licentiousness. They missed the ideal; where Jesus is, there is liberty.
I see many believers in the world but not many followers. God has always had His remnant though; many have been prepared for just this time. Only when Christians lay down the same swords that have been used to cut us all up into little pieces, will the revival that we all have been waiting for finally come. The church must repent, one person at a time as we commit to discipleship, one group at a time, one church, many churches until the world sees that we are one. Then Jesus takes His holy bride into the Bridal Chamber. What a day that will be.
What is a liberal? What is a conservative? These are the questions that we are to ask ourselves today.
Whether we should be a liberal or conservative should depend upon the issue and not out of being locked into half truth ideologies. There is truth and error on both sides. The big problem with churches is taking sides one against the other, going to extremes. It has been yet another tool of the enemy to divide us. What do we say to extreme conservatives to bring them out of their right wing insanity? What do we say to extreme liberals who have abused Christian freedom and brought sin into the church? These are important questions. What we are doing this time is to bring about the good and bad from the conservatives and the liberals and then discuss how we can restore a true balance.
Get back to me. Whatever "side" you have taken, don't be afraid to speak your mind, just do it in love. Not until we can come to a truthful spiritual concensus can any one of us be sure.
Jay
Hi Jay and all, Good to see you back Jay and glad you and Barb have had such an awesome time at the seminar. Interesting the points you make....I just got back from the Bible study where for the first time it was suggested that we let the Lord lead us and see what happens. We found ourselves discussing some of what you said, that the government is making changes that will violate our religious rights here, and that we need to become more active in denouncing those changes, more organized and more vocal. It was suggested that we ought to hold MP's to their official capacity to serve the public, and put the Christian view. We all recognized we have been too self-satisfied, too comfortable to worry about what is going wrong and too lukewarm to do anything about it. At the same time we were aware that, should there be a sudden influx of people into our church, we would not be equipped to cope, particularly if those people came from the poorer parts of town. There is a gulf that needs bridging, a breach that needs restoring and it is because we have held ourselves aloof from the problems that exist out on the street, and in the less desirable housing estates of our town. As a consequence, and although many church-goers in Wales would naturally prefer to swing to the left politically, the actual expression of the church itself is more right-wing and exclusive: it speaks a different language to the poor on the outside, and very much looks after its own on the inside. The hand that extends to give to the needy stops short at pulling them inside the building to be absorbed among our number. Someone quoted a figure that 75% of people in the UK believe in God...and yet only 7% attend church. In between those two figures is a potential for revival. I am with you on repentance, one by one, group by group....as long as we are willing to humble ourselves before God He will revive, He will change things. When the Holy Spirit comes in a great outpouring that will follow our repentance, we will not need to sit and discuss outreach and church agenda: we will be constrained from within to touch hearts for Jesus and bring them in, whoever they are and wherever there are needy around us. When it starts, oh Glory!! - then the expression of the church will change: then the voice heard will be one tempered and balanced by a spectrum of backgrounds in all shades of political and economic colour, and all needs will be met. Like the early church, we will have all things in common. The brother of low degree may rejoice with the rich in a harmony of needs spiritual and material. How cool will that be. Love, Mary
Holy Lord
Holy, holy, holy Lord, You are the Prince of Peace. Holy, holy, holy Lord, Your Presence brings release.
You reign in majesty. You set the captives free. Holy, holy, holy Lord. Come, and reign in me.
Hey Tim,
I might shuffle the order around a bit but I am with you on that, and it sounds like heaven. Wouldn't it be geat if our American brothers and sisters came to stay with us when revival happens in Wales? Between us we could look after quite a few from this list, and then have some awesome meetings together. You could get Debs over too. Nearly a plane-full!!!
An elderly brother some years ago used to tell me stories about how the whole church would take off up Caerphilly mountain for spontaneous prayer meetings. Enormous men would fall headlong into the bracken, slain in the Spirit, and not a scratch or a bruise in sight! I long to have those kind of meetings again, and to break out of the rules and restrictions of the church timetable, just going as the Spirit leads!
Yeah, bring it on.
I think that the Passion of the Christ movie is going to shake a lot of people up. And it will prove that truth can generate at the box office too, especially for some sequels sure to come out on the resurrection. This seems to be the most significant thing with the crucifixion since the crucifixion. At least for the amount of people that it will touch. It is after all a story of Jesus.
I am thinking of doing some canvassing for the homeless while the Passion movie is going on. Try to drum up some houses to work on. Pray with me on that.
Jay
That's really good that things are moving in the right direction.
I was thinking about that 'having things in common' and I really wondered whether the end of the church would be like the start. Maybe if we cannot buy or sell at the end we will end up really interdependent materially too.
You'll all have to come and live with me. hehe!! Actually, I wouldn't mind as long as someone did the cooking!! So long as we
can eat, sleep, read and pray the rest is simply a means to an end.
Take care, God bless,
It makes me wonder if many of us are really able to confront the true nature of our sin. It would be very easy to intellectualize the whole thing and cover up our own shame with criticisms of the film. Let us all pray for those who profess Christ but who aren't willing face the consequences of their sin. I know I will see the film, but in a way I dread the viewing.
I wrote a song very early in my Christian walk called Blood, Iron and Wood. The main point of the song was that it was my sin driving the nails.
Steve
Barb and I have tickets for Wednesday. The criticism is to be expected I guess, it helps spread the word, makes it a media event. I agree with you that it is hard for people to confront their sin. That is why God sent Jesus, what we can't do, He did. The message of the cross.
Really looking forward to seeing the film.
Jay
Societies Prayer
And so it is to our interest, even from the angle of policy in the matter of results, that we should have some ruling idea to aid us in a choice between things good and evil, and settle the wavering balance in things indifferent. Only as we insert a purpose into our days can we extract a purpose from them In many ways the world just gives back what we put into it.
All this, of course, amounts to asking, ‘What is the will of God for us?’ If there is a will expressed in this world, aided and buttressed by the obvious laws of life, then it will be only common sense for us to lay our course in line with it.
In Thessalonians, Paul is led to make a practical definition of the will of God as he understood it. His earlier teaching about Christ's Second Coming had been much misinterpreted. His readers had misunderstood his application. Some argued that if Christ were to be expected on any day or any hour, what good was there in working and slaving at ordinary toil? As a result, many unbalanced people broke away from the healthy restraint of work and duty. Thus disorder, spiritual and moral, spread through the young, undisciplined Church.
Paul might easily and justifiably have expressed his own disappointment and sorrow, but forgetting self as much as a man can, he raised the whole question to the perfect plane of God. The test, he says, is ‘What is the will of God?’ Forget for the moment all about Christ's coming, for after all that is in other hands than yours. Think of what God's will in the present would be, whether Christ came are not. Is not the will of God that you should live justly, quietly, soberly, and Godly? Think of the question as God's---this surely is the will of God, even your sanctification. Live in the light of that, under the inspiration of that, and all will be well, whether Christ come today or tomorrow, or never.
We are all familiar with the disturbing presences in the common life; the wretchedness which wraps people about like a chilling and soaking mist: the moral pestilence; the sin which flaunts its nakedness, and the sin which clothes itself in the garb of virtue; the sorrow that cries, and the sorrow that has no cry; the clean and the grimy poverty; the omnipresent pain. How often have we prayed for the city: ‘Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord!’ And still there comes the Divine retort, ‘Put on thy strength, O Zion!’ We abuse the privilege of prayer we make it a minister of personal evasion and neglect. The prayer of the lips is only acceptable when it is accompanied by the strength of the hands. Are we supplicating for the removal of burdens when already we ourselves have strength to remove them? Let us look about us. How is it with drunkenness? Can we honestly say that we have put our strength into our attack?
To put on one’s strength may just mean to put off one's coat! Will anybody assert for a moment that we have put our strength into the business, and by negative and positive ministries sought the sobriety of our people? How is it with gambling? We all admit it to be a subtle disease in the body politic secretly consuming the manhood and the womanhood of the realm. We all admitted its ravages, among peer and neighbor, the millionaire and the pauper. It is well to appeal to the arm of the Lord, but have we use the strength we have? Can we truthfully say we have used the weapons we have, and they have broken in our hands, and are altogether inefficient and useless?
And how is it with poverty? The grim, and gaunt thing is in our midst, squalid, ominous, terrible! ‘Yes, where is God to allow it?’ ‘Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord!’ ‘Where is God to allow it?’ There is a prior question: “Where are we to allow it?” “Put on thy strength, O Zion!” Have we put our strength into it, every ounce of it? It may be that, when we have done all, something of drunkenness may remain, and something of lust may remain, and something of poverty may remain; but what a plea we shall have with God, and how mighty will be our supplication, when we can come to Him and say: ‘O God, our armory is empty, our reserves are all called out, our last man is on the field, our ammunition is spent, and the enemy still boast himself in our midst! Awake, awake, put on thy strength, O arm of the Lord!’ That kind of prayer would shake the very heavens, and we should have as our eager and willing allies the innumeral hosts of the eternal God.
Everybody on this list has been taught to pray ‘Thy kingdom come.’ Now, if we hear men swear in the streets, we think it very wrong and say he “takes God's name in vain.” But there's a twenty-times worse way of taking His name in vain than that. It is to ask God for what we don't want. He doesn't like that sort of prayer. If you don’t want a thing, don’t ask for it. . . . If you do not wish for His Kingdom, do not pray for it. But if you do, you must do more than pray for it; you must work for it.
And so let us never forget that, when we pray for the salvation of the world it is implied that we will put our strength and to the cleansing and sweetening of our little corner of the world. There's no true prayer without a full consecration.
A Social Gospel.---The first original company which was the germ of the Church was composed, but it is true, of individual believers, or from that day to this the converse has been true---the Church is the antecedent fact; the communal faith, that this, has been the matrix or medium in and by which all individual faith has been quickened and fed. So we pass on next to the church rather than to the individual---the Church as the social embodiment of the gospel. The fact of Christ unquestionably created the faith in Christ ‘The’ gospel thus becomes ‘our’ gospel. This implies two things: that the objective gospel has power to create a living faith in it, and that this faith has taken historic form in the Christian community or Church. And how potent and persistent has been this power! For two thousand years the story of Jesus has awakened, and sustained, and renewed a certain form of spiritual life among men. Whenever two or three of his people have been gathered together, there He has been, no longer as a splendid but isolated figure in history, but in their very midst as a living Presence and Power. Were it not for this extraordinary projection of Himself along the channel of history, the story of Jesus would long since have been forgotten; but while it continues men will turn back to the records of His earthly life and ministry, death, and resurrection, with a passionate interest and an unfailing faith. What is it that always keeps men so busy with the origins of our faith? Is it not is historic fruits? Is it hard to believe the story of the Gospels in these days of a rigid critical temper and of pitiless historic methods? Then, we ask, why is it harder for some of us to disbelieve it? Because of the existence and vitality of the Church which continues that story---because of the regenerated lives of the men and women who through faith in Him have become new creatures; no, because His risen life has become our own life and our own joy.
This communal faith has been a mighty power over thought as well as faith. It has quickened theologically into the historic systems of thought; it has blossomed practically into various types of Christian character; it has germinated periodically into political and social reformations; it has awakened men into speculative activity in philosophy,, into artistic fruitfulness in painting, music, and architecture, into literary creativeness in poetry and drama, into a fuller and fresher life in a thousand directions. Take away the stimulating influence of the communal faith of Christendom, and what would history have been? We do not know; but we do know that the ages of faith have been the ages of accelerated progress and most rapid advance in every fruitful direction; and that when the lights of faith in the Church have become dim, the higher life of men in the world has grown faint, and fallen stagnant. Every great revival in religion has issued in a renewal of all that makes men great and progressive in every social direction. The race has been that it's best when faith in Christ has been at its brightest, when the Church has been at its purest. When ‘the’ faith becomes ‘our’ faith in the universal sense, then will the Kingdom of God come to birth, and the earth be crammed with heaven.
In Christ, timothy.
Our Lord Comes
Hi Curtis,
Thank you so much for this reply, it is a great comfort. I really like what you say about the few spreading to the many, this is not going the way of abandoning them but in overcoming the false doctrine that has done the work of division.
You bring up a subject dear to my heart by mentioning the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3. In a very big way, it illustrates what we are to overcome. There is a list given to the churches of things that we should avoid, like in Ephesus, false apostles, evil liars, leaving our first love. These show that the overcomers are those that have overcome those things as a work of labor, not an action of separation from the rest but in denouncing what is false and in hating the false doctrine. Those in Pergamos among satan's seat that could be considered the remnant have not denied the faith or His name and are not told to get out of Pergamos but rather to repent. The same with Thyatira, they are told to repent, not to abandon and to hold fast until He comes. Good things were written for them as well as the bad things. The overcomers were not to be hurt by the second death or spiritual death, they were to eat of the hidden manna, given power over the nations, we are to be dressed in white, made a pillar in the temple of God and sitting with Jesus at His throne. That is quite a blessed thing to read.
You are so right, we are the church, whether we are in an institution, a denomination or even if others are in bondage, it is Jesus in us that makes us part of the blessing. Yes we need to be hungry to be filled, without grace there is no remnant.
Jay
Thank you Jay,
Remember on the cross Jesus said, "It is finished." By finished, not only were we redeemed but we overcame through the resurrection. The church has won, we just don't know it yet.
Grace and Peace
Curtis
Dear Jay and others at the lightship,
I found your elijah syndrome essays very informative. It also helped me to think a bit about the current state of America. This recent war, has disturbed me. The thing that I find truly disturbing is the arrogance and pride that has been spewed out by our government and media. It is also scary how much of the "christian" right tows the party line. Our national pride will not go undealt with by the Lord. I just pray as a nation that we would repent from our arrogance and pride. we are very much like Laodician church in rev 3:14-19.
Ed
Hi Ed,
Exactamundo. This is what it is all about, His kingdom and not the one that America wants. There will be more of this type of thinking as we move forward but there will also be that right wing rhetoric going on also. It is very unpopular right now to take this kind of stand but since when has the true remnant been part of a popularity contest.
Thanks for the kind word.
Jay
Yes true about the endtimes Church. There can't be no more patty cakes with the world(satan) and Heaven (Jesus),one or the other. Amen. Yes our Father will spit out the lukewarm church. Time is short and now is the time to tell people about Jesus and His love Amen. Thanks Denise
Hello in Jesus' name,
Perhaps you recognize the name of an old friend.
A response on the god of President Bush:
I believe he (Bush) is speaking of God as he knows Him. I have been led to intercede for him to open his (Bush) eyes to the prophetic. Not for him to be prophetic, but for him to SEE it in the spirit. I agree with the description of the church of Babylon. It is also a church that is taught in error by the doctrine of men who do not KNOW God. If we cannot see Grace and Mercy operating, we will not see the hand of God moving through error as He chooses. Not in every case but where the script that was conceived before the foundation of the world and then handed to the Word by the Father must be carried out, it does. When flesh moves within the doctrine of men, then we speak of god. When we seek the Truth and the Lord with our hearts, we seek God. This is why there is no power in the church and the basis for the lack of holiness. But, where sin abounds, grace abounds even more.
Larry Sloma
Of course I recognize you Larry. Good to hear from you.
I also believe that President Bush is speaking as he knows God but it is the god of this world and not the God that we know. Keep praying for him that he will see in the spirit, sure can't hurt.
As for having no power in the church, try to accept the fact that there is power there. We are the church and many have not bent the knee to Baal. I suppose that I have written of a powerless church as well, sure have thought of it in that way for a long time. When we see the church made up as individuals however, we can see Jesus there as well as the accuser of the brethren. It is being taught false doctrine as well as true doctrine, there is love and there is hate and I agree with you completely that grace and mercy is alive and well and flourishing. Maybe not at the extent as we would like it to be but there is a great falling away today. I believe that part of that apostasy is in denying the church that Jesus died to save.
Thanks
Jay
Dear Jay,
I agree with your opinions about the Elijah Syndrome and the fact that we Christians, regardless of our particular faiths, need to stay within the Church and not run away from it. The only way that the Christian Church can become healthy is for us faithful Christians to stay within it and to become proactive and to be a light, a beacon for those Christians whom have gotten their eyes off the Real God, and as you said upon the god Baal and become ensnared by our president's concept of how the world should be; instead of staying focused on how God intended us to live our lives in the Church and out of the Church.
Stay strong, stay brave and continue to be willing to stand out and speak your mind. It is difficult sometimes to speak God's truth, but we Christians must do so not only in our words but also in our actions and sharing our views and interpretations of "The Holy Bible". Remember God loves you and so do I. Please include me as a member of the latter-rain-lightship as I pray that you will consider yourself as a member of "Unity Builders For Christ, Inc."
Stella
well met, my friend
united we stand, divided we fall.
satan is the defeated foe, and knowing he cannot have victory over The Lord, he tries to disassemble the body of Christ, the people, the church.
When the bridegroom returns, will he find faith on the earth?
I would like to think so, although i wait for the famine of the Word that is begun, to worm into people and churches and to dissolve the pact of fellowship within the people.
The first shall not be last, and the last shall not be first. And God knew, right back from the beginning, that at these end times, some would fall away and others would be led away and still others would deceive those unsure in spirit.
test the spirits, to see if they are within or without, and ever prayerfully we submit unto the Lord Jesus Christ, and His Words: "My grace is sufficient for thee".
i like a saying on a bumper sticker i saw once:
God knows me inside and out.....and He loves me anyway.
we who stand hard against the enemy are blessed because we are persecuted because of Him, and although it becomes more and more difficult to remain standing, i am assured of His Spirit, and His Love.
One day at a time, until His return
Stay blessed,
Teresa
Hi Peg, and all
The early church I am sure was full of people like you and me and everyone here just as astonished at how far the Lord would show Himself in spite of our struggles and problems. I earnestly desire to see Him move in power like in those days, but more than anything I desire to see the expression of love between us developed fully to the point of the fervency that Jesus asks for, in purity of heart.
Thanks Peg for bringing this up because it is a good opportunity for me to tell you all about what is happening here, I believe the lord is going to do big things on the street soon, He is already opening doors and manifesting in power. It makes me so excited what is happening I can't keep it to myself.
I think the early church grew fast. Pentecost must have seen to it not only that the increase in numbers was great, but that personal growth in the Lord was as they say a steep learning curve. Manifestations of the power of God are evidence of His being among us and while it is wonderful to see, it is His presence that shows us our sinfulness and brings us to repentance, and that I am feeling is the key to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in signs and wonders.
My personal life has been a wreck over the last couple of years. I have struggled with so many issues of sin that I thought I was "too grown up" to commit. I have entertained thoughts of depravity which I had thought were quite beneath me as a Christian. If there was no such thing as grace I would have been a goner on the basis of the desires I found I had all running around inside me in glorious technicolour.
Fortunately as you know the Lord is able to keep us from falling, and He has done so as far as my behaviour is concerned. But of course to think evil and walk around piously is worse than falling and putting it away, so there has been that to contend with: the pharisee in me can be despicable.
I am sure no one here has been half as bad as me but the point I need to make is that there is no other way around things, repentance is THE way back.
Now on the street there are problems of drugs and drink and crime and sexual excess and deviancy and you name it. At the same time there are so many Christians that I know there, and the two groups are not mutually exclusive. Christians fall, full stop. And if they do not actually fall, they (we) think about falling to a greater or lesser degree.
But there is no draught of clean water that slakes the thirst and revives, like the application of the grace of God to a sinful heart. There is no wonder comparable to the joy of knowing the reality of the putting away by God of our sins into the sea of forgetfulness, and the pouring in of His presence and His power.
So yes, I am certain that the early church had problems. Better a body of believers that confess them and repent and know God among them, than any bunch of people that think they are above the possibility of sinning and just go through the motions of religious ritual, having no desire for or experience of holiness.
God has arranged for me a partnership in evangelism with Nick, who I met yesterday. He is homeless, and faces many of the struggles they all do on the street. But we spent some time praying together yesterday as if in a time capsule, suspended out of the muck of the world in communion with each other in the Lord.
We made open confession together of the sins that have been troubling us, and the Lord gave us a vision concerning his hearing of our prayers together and us hearing His voice together being dependant on our keeping a short account with Him, on the putting away of our sin in the continuing present tense. Man, that is just so precious to me.
This has arisen significantly out of a shared love in the Lord that seems to be given us as a complete thing, not needing us to work at it at all, it is just there, developed and fully acknowledged. And in the atmosphere of repentance and the presence of the Holy God we love, we are free to express it in tenderness, knowing that it covers over the multitude of sin. I can't tell you how long it has been since I first desired that kind of relationship in Him.
So Peg, and all, please praise the Lord with me, He is great and marvelous and beautiful, He loves us with an everlasting love, and His mercy, as you and all here know so well,
endureth FOREVER! Halleluyah! Much love from Mary xx
The source where these words are taken is Prov. 10:12, 'Hatred stirreth up strifes, but love covereth all transgressions.' The expression 'cover a multitude of sins' occurs again as the closing words of the Epistle of James [v. 20] : 'He which converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.' The form in which St. Peter and St. James present the saying differs slightly from the original Hebrew.
We should interpret these passages of the New Testament, especially the text from St Peter, in the light of what we know about the operation of love, God's cosmic moral force, which works with most intense power in the Church of Christ, which God now uses to check the growth of sin, and which will finally eliminate evil altogether from the universe. It is always best to take large views, to look at things in relation to the whole of which they are a part ; and it is allowable, as it is certainly practically helpful, to think of the 'multitude of sins,' of which the Apostles James and Peter speak, not as the sins of any particular person or persons, but as the volume or mass of sin in general, 'the sin of the world' which 'the Lamb of God taketh away.'
But we must, of course, take note in the first place of the working of the force of love in detail. 'Love,' says the Apostle Paul [1 Cor.13:5], 'taketh not account of evil.' That is to say, a man who puts himself under the control of the love God acts, when a private personal injury has been done to him, as though nothing had occurred. In this way, by simply ignoring the unkind act or the insulting word, he does not merely conceal from view something that is there all the time, as we put a screen or curtain to hide what we do not wish seen, but he brings the evil thing to an end ; it dies and leaves no seed. 'Hatred,' as the Wise Man says, 'stirreth up strifes'; because hatred is like one of those germs familiar to pathologists, which, in a favorable environment, propagate themselves a millionfold in an incredibly short space of time. 'Love covereth transgressions,' not so much by the act of ignoring them as by the result of ignoring them, the consequent cutting away from the transgression all that would nourish it, and enable it to live, and be fruitful and multiply ; love makes an end of transgression much in the same way as sunshine destroys the germs of disease. Thus evil is overcome by love is peculiarly of the self-propagated kind.
We can now see that St. James, in the closing words in his Epistle, holds out as an incentive to efforts for the conversion of a sinner, that the man who succeeds in effecting this not only saves alive the soul of another, but also helps forward the accomplishment of the great cosmic purpose of God, by diminishing, ever so little, the sum total of evil. No, the experience of the Christian centuries assures us that the conversion of sinner transmutes, by a Divine alchemy, that which is evil, and a source of evil into a source of good. The context in St. Peter is even more plainly favorable to this large, almost cosmic, reference of the saying. The Apostle is urging upon the Christian society the duty of self-preperation --- the preperation of the Church--- for the Second Coming of Christ.
The love here spoken of, like the exercise of hospitality and the general use of spiritual gifts, affect the common life of the Church, her self-education, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, for the fuller life in Christ which will be hers. And so, 'the common salvation,' as St Jude terms it, is worked out not merely by the salvation of souls one by one, but by each Christian taking his part, co-operating with Christ in His age-long purpose of 'presenting the church to himself a glorious church, not having a spot or wrinkle or any such thing ; but...holy and without blemish.'
In Christ, timothy. Maranatha
The most important business first, about Montou -- I believe Jan will be talking with Montou today. He was still trying to find the phone number that works. He has it now. I bet we get an update from him later.
On to the next thought --
Jay, please take time to read carefully and address what I'm really asking here, because I am sincere in finding answers and they won't come with quick knee-jerk responses. I'm in the LDS church for a reason, and I believe the reason goes beyond helping my husband. There is something for me to learn here, and perhaps I have a mission???? So please bear with me and help me reason this through with the Spirit's inspiration.
You said, "I like when we bare our hearts and souls to each other. It takes trust to be able to do that."
Your thought here takes me to where I would like to open up and talk a little bit about the church I attend (without "church-slamming" of course). By contrast, my fellowship with everyone here at Lightship is beginning to help me identify what I am experiencing within the LDS church environment. I'm having a hard time putting my finger on what it is about the environment that feels so uncomfortable to me. I would like to understand what it is, so I can allow the Lord to show me what He wants me to do with it while I'm there.
Your words define a way of being that I find missing in this church. Devoted LDS people are very moral, good people. They seek to live pure lives and work to raise their children according to scriptural precepts and the LDS emphasis on "family." The structure of the church is very successful at producing group standards of purity, unity and excellence. I don't have a problem with this. They do teach Jesus as the Christ with all the basic and essential truths -- Son of God, Savior born to a virgin, the gospel of grace death and resurrection to provide atonement through his blood, the subsequent gift of the Holy Ghost for all to receive upon repentance, baptism by water in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, and then bringing forth works worthy of repentance, but trusting in grace for growth in the Spirit, and receiving forgiveness upon confession to our Savior and repentance for any weaknesses and sins. The teachings all include the basic principles of the New Testament.
To me, the problem of this church body seems to be the "additions" to the gospel -- which is explained away with the doctrine that scripture did not stop with printing of the bible. Hence, there is a heavy reliance on the Book of Mormon (translated by Joseph Smith from tablets revealed by angels), the Doctrine and Covenants (a series of utterances preserved by Joseph Smith after God appointed him Prophet), and the Pearl of Great Price (more work produced by Joseph Smith). The most difficult doctrine to swallow for believers like you and me is that of "the restoration of the true church in these last days." It is taught that Joseph Smith restored the gospel which LDS are convinced was taken from the earth soon after the Early Church and then restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith for the building of Zion in these Latter Days. Lots of big pills to swallow here, but true LDS don't choke on them a bit.
Now, to get to the point I want to make for just today. My little sphere in the church is with the women. And I love women. I feel drawn to minister emotional healing with women, and that is what I am in the process of learning how to do with the doors that have opened in Healing Way. Well, anywhere else, but within the LDS environment, I bond with women very quickly and easily. There is something about me that emanates trust -- a kind of trust that allows for lots of personal disclosures. I'm a good listener and do so without judgment or trying to "have the answers." With my training, I am finding a way to facilitate communication between the Holy Spirit and the female client for finding their own answers, which is great because I really don't have good answers for other women -- true solutions to women's problems are so specific and customized to the individual, there are no pat answers. The Holy Spirit is the only One to turn to for answers.
So, for some reason, with LDS women, I discern some sort of barrier. To describe what I'm trying to put my finger on, let me use a metaphoric label I've applied to them that all of us might relate to (and I hate labels, but sometimes they are helpful). However, please note that I use this metaphor without disrespect for the women I am describing.
When I started going to the women's church group (called The Relief Society) was when I first discovered that I was going to have to work hard at developing any kind of real relationship with these gals. My observance of them over a period of months led me to label my "Stepford Wives." And I say that without joking -- it's really not funny. Like the Stepford Wives, there is something that makes these women interact in a way that just doesn't t feel "real" -- that is, more robotic than really human. And I cannot seem to break through this barrier to be real with them -- to paraphrase you, "to be able to bare our souls trustfully with one another in the Spirit." It seems they have absolutely no need to share in that way, or that they are somehow cut off from those feelings and struggles that the rest of us encounter. And believe me, it's not that their lives are so perfect that they've "arrived."
This morning I had the idea of that this church seems somewhat like the church of Laodicea in the sense that it's membership is exclusive and they behave outwardly as if they have need of nothing. I don't know if it's appropriate to draw this analogy or not.
I would like some feedback -- but please take your time. Like I said, this has no quick answer. I've been with this church for quite some time now with my husband, and I am intelligent and you know I am open to the Spirit, but I haven't received solid insight yet. Perhaps the Spirit is waiting for me to have brothers and sisters to talk it out with -- do you think?
Love, Peg
Hi Peg,
Yes, I had to think about this one a bit.
I have known for some time that I was not to "mission" with the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses but I was not to bash them either. I get along with Mormons and Jehovah witness fine until we start talking about Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses. These religions are not compatible with what I believe as truth, revelation or reason and as soon as I tell them where I believe their founders got their inspiration, the talk is generally over. I empathize with the many that want to serve their church and family and look squeaky clean but it is easier for them. I see it as a limited environment because they lack the spirit that would give them the truth one way or another. I hope I don't sound too harsh, it is just the way most of us feel that are not part of their groups.
I would like to accept them as brothers and sisters but that is pretty hard if I am expected to accept or even respect what they believe. The history of both are too much like the false prophets that will arise saying that they time has arrived but we are not to follow after them. They both thought of their time just like we think that the time is now. The restoration is now by the way, these groups thought that it was in the nineteenth century. These were two denominations started by schoolboys with over active imaginations. The same with the Seventh day Adventists and the churches of Christ/Disciple movement. They were even calling it the restoration movement so our identification with that isn't exactly new.
Either the restoration has already happened or Jesus has not come back yet. We move forward and prepare while they still try to explain the past. We are called as the remnant, they won't have a clue.
This all ties in with the good posts I read on the early church. They were an apostolic church just like so many groups have tried to be but it will be the one that Jesus puts together and not these other dead guys.
There are strengths and their are weakness in the Mormon church. The strengths are the structure based upon the five-fold ministry, the gospel teachings, the salvation message. These in themselves do not send the spirit, God does and if they had the spirit, they would not believe in such nonsense and there would not be a nature of Christ issue to divide us.
I see you with the spirit to recognize truth and error Peg so if you are called there, go with wisdom and understanding You could go a long way with that and be a great light. Tread softly.
Jay
Dear Jay,
The Lord guided me to a scripture text today and gave me some clarity for my concern about understanding how to relate and communicate with the women among whom I rub shoulders in the LDS church. I feel like trying to put it into words and share it with you. The scripture text popped into my head during the same devotional time wherein I was having the wonderful experience that I just shared with Segun. The contrast between the two moments became to me like an electrical circuit leading to a lightbulb -- ah how I love it when a light goes on!
The text: "And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, "Thus said the Lord God of Israel, 'Let My People go, that they may hold a feast unto Me in the wilderness.'
And Pharaoh said, 'Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I know not the Lord, neither will I let Israel go.'
And they said, 'The God of the Hebrews hath met with us; let us go, we pray thee, three days' journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the Lord our God; lest He fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.'
And the king of Egypt said unto them 'Wherefore do ye, Moses and Aaron, let the people from their works? get you unto your burdens.' And Pharaoh said, Behold, the People of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens.' And Pharaoh commanded the same day the taskmasters of the People, and their officers, saying, 'Ye shall no more give the people straw to make brick, as heretofore: let them go and gather straw for themselves. And the tale of the bricks, which they did make heretofore, ye shall lay upon them; ye shall not diminish ought thereof: for they be idle; therefore they cry, saying, "Let us go and sacrifice to our God." Let there more work be laid upon the men, that they may labour therein; and let them not regard vain words." Exodus 5:1-9.
Bear with me, now. You know how hard it is to communicate with words what one sees and hears in the Spirit. As I read this passage, I saw the likeness of the LDS members when I heard "My People." I saw the LDS religious system headed by the Prophet Gordon Hinckley with the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles when I heard "King of Egypt" (or Pharaoh). I saw the ministry of true believers trying to find a way to help the LDS people come to know and worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth when I read "Moses and Aaron."
What comes to my mind when I let this word speak to me in this framework is how "work-ethic-oriented" the LDS are. Which, outwardly seems very honorable and heroic. But, in reality, the constant pressure to "be so busy" (and I emphasize "busy") with family, work, and what is referred to as "church callings" keeps their lives so structured and rigid within the parameters of the material realm and the Church itself, that few have had exposure to personal experiences and revelations from the Spirit of Jesus as we have had
So, Jay, it's hard for me to hear, but what you said is absolutely right. The LDS way of life is "a limited environment because they lack the spirit that would give them the truth one way or another....There are strengths and their are weakness in the Mormon church. The strengths are the structure based upon the five-fold ministry, the gospel teachings, the salvation message. These in themselves do not send the spirit, God does and if they had the spirit, they would not believe in such nonsense and there would not be a nature of Christ issue to divide us."
This can be a reminder for all of us at Lightship to truly appreciate what we a gift we have --internal and external liberty to worship the Living God in Spirit and in Truth -- and that too much emphasis on five-fold structure and doctrine can become a means for Pharaoh to squeeze the Spirit out of a body of seekers. This can also be an example for us to know what happens when a church body becomes bound up by the works of the Nicolaitans -- those works being defined as "power distributed in a hierarchy over a laity" --rather than "the Spirit's power over the Body available to and shared by all " If so, no wonder the Spirit warns us to hate the works of the Nicolaitans as much as He does. (Rev. 2:6)
The end of my train of thought is this -- "I wonder if I should get up the courage to begin a bible study in my home and invite a couple LDS sisters??? Pray for me to receive pure guidance -- and cast all ego and/or fear aside
The character of the Apostolic Church is not one that can be sketched in a few strokes. Simple as it was in form, it had varied and delicate characteristics. By its foundation in Jerusalem Christianity became, what it continued to be in the main for some centuries, a city of religion, a religion nearly all the adherents of which lived in large centers of population. It was in such centers that the first missionaries worked. For eighteen years or more [Gal. 1:18 ; 2: 1] Jerusalem continued to be the headquarters of at least some of the Twelve ; but even before the conversion of St. Paul there were Christians at Samaria [Acts 8:14], Damascus [9:19] and Antioch [11:20], which soon eclipsed Jerusalem as the Christian metropolis.
It should be pointed out that the Church is necessarily social in character ; and it resembles other societies, especially those which have a political or moral aim, in requiring self-denying loyalty from its members. But it differs from other societies in claiming to be universal. The morality which it admonishes is not for any one nation or class, but for the whole of mankind. In the very small amount of legislation which Christ declared openly, He made it quite clear that in the Kingdom social interests are to prevail rather than private interests ; and also that all men have a right to enter the society and ought to be invited to join it. The Church, therefore, is a commonwealth open to all the world. Every human being may find a place in it ; and all those who belong to it will find that they have entered a vast family, in which all the members are brethen and have the obligations of brethren to promote one another's well-being both of body and soul. This form of free brotherhood was essential to a universal religion ; and the proof of its superiority to other brotherhoods lay in its being suitable to all sorts and conditions of men. It prescribed conduct which can be recognized as binding on all ; and, far more fully than any other system, it supplied to all what the soul of each individual craved. The name 'disciples' did not last long as a name for all Christians ; the name 'brethren' took its place. St. Paul does not speak of Christians as 'disciples' ; that word came to be restricted to those who had been the personal disciples of Christ. He speaks of them as 'brethren',' a term in harmony with the Christians' 'enthusiasm of humanity,' an enthusiasm which set no bounds to its affection, but gave to every individual, however degraded, full recognition. The mere fact of being a baptized believer gave an absolute claim to loving consideration from all the rest. This brotherhood was easily recognized by the heathen.
Here no compromise was possible. The Divinity of the Crucified, which is such a difficulty to modern thought, appears to have caused little difficulty to the first Christians. It has been suggested that familiarity with polytheistic ideas helped them to believe in the Divinity of the Son. Possibly ; but, on the other hand, their rejection of polytheism was absolute, and they died rather than make concessions. Heathen philosophers, who saw that polytheism was irrational, had a colorless theism which could make compromises with popular misbeliefs. Thinkers like Plato, Aristotle, Cicero, Seneca, and Plutarch could talk indifferently of God and gods, of the Divine Being and the deities ; but for the early Christians that was impossible. They were not theologians, and they had only the rudiments of a creed ; but they were quite clear about the necessity of worshipping God and His Christ, and about the folly and wickedness of worshipping men or idols. So, with all their simplicity of doctrine they had deep convictions which formed a strong bond of union.
In Christ, timothy.
Maranatha
God's Little Church.
It is a matter of more than passing interest that in the dawn of the Christian era much of the worship centered in the home or family life. A study of the New Testament, particularly the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles, indicates how widespread this custom was. There is an explanation at hand. There were no public meeting-places where the early Christians could meet with safety and convenience, hence the use of their homes for this purpose. Sometimes they met in caves in the earth, as the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews intimates; sometimes in an upper room as at Troas, described in the twentieth chapter of Acts; but oftenest the private residences of loyal disciples were used for the public services. It may be that the reference to 'the church in thy house' is to the public gatherings in the private homes of the followers of Jesus Christ. But the Christian families of that day had a Church in their home quite apart from the meeting of the brethren for public worship. Those of 'the way' were
One cannot think of a more fitting description of a Christian home than this: 'The church in thy house.' A dwelling-place so sanctified by the character of its inmates and their habits of life that it is at once thought of as a place of worship; a family group so knit together, not alone by ties of blood kinship, but by the more subtle and yet more lasting bonds of common faith, that it becomes, by the very nature of its common life: what better description can we find of an ideal home?
Tim
It is as natural for man to worship as it is for a plant to grow towards the light. And that is observable from the lichen in the Arctic Zone, or the poor pale flower in a cellar, to the pine trees on the mountains of Norway. The spiritual organism of man contemplates worship as certainly as the physical organism contemplates exercise, or the mental organism thought. The admonition of the Psalmist to worship was therefore no new idea. Especially was it not new to the Hebrews, for they were a worshipful people. The attitude of reverence was more largely developed among them than any other nation.
Nor was it a new thing to them to worship the Lord. Him they had worshipped since Abraham, their father, followed the morning star of destiny from Ur of the Chaldees and found his way to Shechem. To them the Lord had been specially revealed. He had been their Deliverer our of Egypt and their Savior in the wilderness. So they worshipped Him. Possibly no religious phrase that the Psalmist used sounded so familiar to their ears as the first three words of the text, 'Worship the Lord.' But he added some words to that phrase which greatly enhanced its meaning. He said, 'Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness.'
There is such a thing as holy beauty. It is suggested by the text. The Bible has little to say about beauty, but much about holiness, about morality, about character, about courage, about unselfishness, about love, much about the most beautiful things in the world. It has been charged that the Bible is unfriendly to Art; that neither in the Old nor in the New Testament is there any encouragement to be aesthetic---a contention which cannot be defended. The very springs of poetry are in the Scriptures, and as to Music [poetry and music being the purely ideal arts], it has been truthfully said "Christianity is the only musical religion." Yet it must be remembered that the one great purpose of Christianity is not to refine the taste, but to purify the heart.
'Whatsoever things are beautiful, think on these things,' says the Apostle. What things are beautiful? Holiness is beautiful says our text: Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness.' Worship the Lord in the beauty of architecture. Build temples grand and fair. Let their domes pierce the clouds. That is beautiful. Worship the Lord in the beauty of painting. Let saintly masters dream, and put their dreams on canvas. Let there be such pictures as 'The Transfiguration,' 'The Last Supper,' 'The Crucifixion,' 'The shadow of the Cross.' They are beautiful. Worship the Lord in the beauty of music. Let the anthem and carol and oratorio exalt the name of the Wonderful Christ. That is beautiful. Let organs yield their sweet and solemn sounds. That is beautiful. But remember, all these are means, not ends, and they are worth only so much as they contribute to the beautifying of life, to the production in men of that which is Divine, and hence for ever beautiful.
Is there any beauty so admirable, so satisfying, so memorable as the beauty of a soul who has lived for a noble purpose, who has studied patience in the school of Christ, who has never lowered the standard or played the coward or the fool? That is the finest music, the finest poetry, the finest architecture in the world. Plato prayed, "May the gods make me beautiful within." It was the beauty of holiness he longed for. He knew that all other beauty is evanescent. Beautiful faces fade when the light of youth goes out of the eye, beautiful forms waste with disease and age, the hand loses its cunning, and the foot its fleetness, but the soul---time writes no wrinkles on its brow, because the soul is not a thing of time. It is the pitiable weakness of so many ambitious to be beautiful that they have no desire to be beautiful within. They seem not to know that the face is translucent, that beauty of mind and of soul shines through a human face as light through glass. Joseph Cook speaks of "the solar look" in the human face. What does he mean by that? It is the angel face in man. We are to be messengers, living epistles who will be read.
The 'beauty of holiness' is not only created in the soul of the worshipper by his own spirit of devotion, it is a reflection of the beauty of the Lord Himself. Psalm 90., that majestic comparison of the timelessness of the Eternal with the momentary flash of life of mortal man, concludes with the aspiration, 'And let the beauty of the Lord our God be upon us.' How can any enter the immediate presence of God and bask in beauty without carrying some of it with him into the outer world? When Moses on Sinai received the tables of the law and came down from the mount the people saw his face shining with an unearthly beauty, but he knew it not himself. That reflection of the beauty of the Lord was not peculiar to Moses. Those who have lived long in light, who have spent blessed moments and hours in rapt contemplation of 'the King in His beauty,' grow like Him whom they have loved and beheld. There is the promise that we shall 'be like him, for we shall see him as he is.' But we need not wait till the soul is freed from its earthly tabernacle to take on the likeness; the likeness may be always stamping itself upon us. There are men and women whose faces, shining with maturing saintliness, are a blessing to look upon. Such are found in all the Churches, and they are the most convincing of living epistles.
In Christ, timothy. maranatha
'We would see Jesus.' It is the cry alike of the saint of ripe experience and of the beginner in the spiritual life who only dimly knows that Christ is the source and giver of life eternal. It is the cry of the broken man who has traveled into the far country and longs to return to God. It is the cry of the puzzled man who feels that Christ is fading from him. It is the cry of the hopeful man who is beginning to see all that Christ will be to him when he finds Him more fully. And this desire for Christ, so conscious and clear to itself, which knows what it wants and in its own fashion sets out to seek it, is not the only way in which the Quest of St. John's Greeks is to be traced still among us. 'We would see Jesus' is the unconscious cry of all lives, whatever quest they are bent upon, and traveling along whatever road of thought and endeavor and purpose and aspiration. The successful man of business standing at the summit of ambition knows that there is a void in his soul which no prize of wealth or position can fill and satisfy. The thinker exploring the secrets of truth is growing conscious that he has not discovered the key to unlock the hidden mysteries. The artist, in his struggle to reach the half-discovered beauty of the universe, finds that it flies before him as it to lead him on to a fullness of loveliness which he can never find. Behind all that they think or do or love to seek for is a deep persistent hunger for something higher.
Christianity offers itself to men conscious of its power to speak to a universal desire and to give the answer to a universal quest. The question is often asked, "What is Christianity?" and to that question there are many answers. All true Christian experience replies, "Christianity is Christ." It is a religion; but its distinctive character is the message of the Christ as Savior. It implies creed; but its basis is the revelation of a Person. It becomes an ethical system; but its controlling principle is devotion to Christ. It lives as a Church, a society of souls; but its bonds of fellowship and vital secret are Christ. Christian experience consists in a vision of that Person and the effect of that vision upon life.
To those who see Jesus so, the one and only failure that matters is the failure to respond to that vision when it is offered. The real tragedy of life is to be blind to Jesus. It is possible to stand in His Presence and yet not see Him.
It is only the Christian who sees Christ; to others He is but a literary figure, or an historical problem, or an inexplicable influence; they have not the vision of what He is. Christ was veiled to the Pharisee because of his self-righteous pride: He was veiled to the Sadducee because of his determined skepticism: He was veiled to Herod, though he had desired for a long time to see Him, for he saw Him only through the blinding mists of his arrogant lusts. And so because Christ is the Eternal antithesis to sin and self-assertion, the world which knows so much about Him still knows Him not, though its heart is unsatisfied.
There are two questions which claim an answer as we think of the quest for Christ.
Where and how can we gain the vision? Even from His Church Jesus was hidden till He died and rose again, and the full meaning of His message was obscure till it stood out large and luminous in the light of His Cross and Resurrection. Speculate about Jesus, make Him a mere theological thesis, admire Him and learn from Him only as the supreme religious philosopher, and we will not see Him. But kneel at His Cross and hear His 'It is finished,' and yield our souls to Him in the submission of faith, and to us with all His saints there will come the Epiphany of Himself, and one unveiling which makes God real, and brings redemption within the range of practical experience, a gift to possess and a life to live.
What is the price to be paid for that vision? It is twofold. First, Search. 'Seek ye my face.' Desire and longing must pass into earnest and believing quest. If we would see Christ we must seek Him. It is an old road, the road of secret prayer, the road of reading His Scriptures, the road of worship; a road plain but not easy, for it leads away from fashionable self-assertion to the low door of self-humiliation. It is wet with tears of generations of penitents, and a man can travel along it only upon his knees. But it leads to Jesus, and that is everything.
Secondly, Surrender. We must have Christ on His own terms or we will not have Him at all. 'I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord.' Those are deep words of St. Paul.
In Christ, timothy. maranatha
here....)
My insides feel like praising the Lord. Thank you Jesus for
doing better than putting up with me. Thank you for loving me when I am "off on one" and can't see what I am doing. Thank you for telling me. Thank you for making a way for me to get back to You. Thank you for the welcome when I get there. Thank you for showing me you are with me. Thank you for breaking the power of that evil that had got me down.
Thank you for the gift of humour and the fun and laughter we had tonight in the meeting. Thank you for the honest confession and the atmosphere of warmth and sincerity. Thank you for the sense of spiritual urgency for the times we are in that I heard in others' prayers. Thank you for precious friends and brethren, here, at Lightship, at home, in the church.
Lord I want to praise you. These are all things you have
given. Not because of anything given on my part but in spite of having nothing, even a shortfall, a measure to be made up. Oh Lord, I have known undeserved favour, but not like this before. My heart swelled to acknowledge it taking place. How beautiful you are. There is nothing you have spoken that is not wholly dependable. There is no word given from your mouth that you do not intend to fulfill.
Father I love this place and these people my brethren. Thank
you Lord for each one, and for the contribution of prayer and loving support that they give. All these ones also working with the homeless across the world, Lord bless them in their work, pour out a great blessing from Heaven to enrich the lives of the homeless and complete your plans for the work.
.....In Jesus' Mighty Name, AMEN!
February 24, 2004
John 12:20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast.
Blessings IZ's wife
by Deborah L Thomas
You said this:
"So long as we can eat, sleep, read and pray the rest is simply a means to an end."
Love, Mary
I am ready for that too Mary. I am ready for revival now. Let it begin with us Lord Jesus.
Hi All,
Tim W.
<
You know Jay, I have been amazed at some of the criticism of this movie coming from "supposed" Christians. On a couple of email lists that I'm on, there have been a few voices very critical of Gibson and this movie. One thing that I have noticed is that there seems to be a great aversion to it because of the graphic violence of the process of crucifiction itself and the movie's realistic reproduction of it.
Hi Steve,
Life at once begins to gain in content and volume, when it acquires a distinct point of view. To be aimless means to be resultless. As Thoreau remarks, “In the long run, we hit only what we aim at.[1 Pet. 4:8]---' Love covereth a multitude of sins.'
After I meditated on the passage and what it meant to me, the worship experience I described to Segun came to mind and I wept with sweet joy at the remembrance. The thought came to me, why don't I try to share an experience like this with my LDS sisters? Why don't I set up a bible study that opens with prayer and worship with scripture music? Immediately fear and resistance to that idea confronted me and I began to reason "But I know that Pharaoh wouldn't allow it." How do I know? Because the LDS women are so protected by the rules of the church and the priesthood (which includes most of their husbands). I would be nervous about inviting them to have a bible study in my home and introducing them to a Spirit-filled worship experience. If I invite them to a bible study and it's not governed by LDS study literature, blessed by the LDS priesthood, and accompanied by LDS music, then it would be disapproved of, and I would have to answer for my intentions. An invitation itself would stir up fears of apostasy. And then, what about my relationship with my husband? Any move in this direction would have to be engineered and backed up by the Lord Himself.
Love, PegRom. 16:5---'Greet the church that is in their house.'
Psalm 29:2.---' Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness.'
John 12:21.---' We would see Jesus.'
Hi there my HAB poppets, (I hope poppet means something nice over there like it does
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