The Root Of All Evil
The nature of the luke-warm church is that of being blind to the avarice that has consumed them. Confusion abounds among those that cannot see but for those that have been preaching repentance and a turn from mammon all along, it is perfectly clear. The church has tried to serve both God and mammon, knowing Jesus said you can't. We have witnessed a great tragedy but this is only the beginning of sorrows. The end is not yet but it is coming. Think of a drought so severe as to dry up the farm land and stop the power generators. The inflation alone will bring the world into famine. Think of catastrophes so widespread that a third of the people in the world will die? Frightening isn't it. All over money.
So, we are in the midst of a discussion on repentance. Fitting. We are not the only ones with a call to repentance, many know very well that this is the way to stay God's hand. You say that God is not to blame? I agree, but tragic as it was, the only god that the World Trade Center represented is the god of mammon. The only god that the Pentagon represents is reflected in the image of the beast. Whatever judgment that is represented in this evil is the natural result of sin and the love of money, the root of all evil. Of course it was perpetrated by evil people but the hedge around the United States was let down. No matter how much you love America, the message is still the same - judgment is coming against her. There are of course those that disagree but we do not see them repenting of mammon worship either. Repentance comes when we are aware of our sins and are determined to turn from them. Judgment is also coming to the church. Bible prophecy must be fulfilled. Repentance is what dresses ourselves in white, ready to meet the Bridegroom. "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:13-14.
Can you recognize the blindness to avarice and laissez-faire oppression? Your eyes must be opened to the deception of foreign investments and development loans used as a bribe for cheap labor and enslave the third world in debt. It is past time to warn the church. Take a look at the multinational moneygrubbers spouting democracy and freedom to deceive nations and the military interventions to protect our economic interests. The bulk of the Christian church has supported this new world order as part of their mammon worship. Freedom becomes the license to exploit. Embargoes, trade sanctions, favored nation status and economic blockades are the nature of the beast that forbids countries to buy and sell in the world market. Many are still blind to it but it's there. Hey, many of us will die for taking sides against the new world order but Jesus has already given us the anointing to take the kingdom. It is very obvious once the blinders are taken off but God has sent a strong delusion for those who believe a lie. The saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever and ever.
There are many competing voices saying that this is not judgment but still they wonder why this is happening to a Christian America. These are the voices of the image of the beast, not the true God. God has blessed America but look at her now. She is the most amoral and violent nation since pagan Rome, mingled with the seed of mankind but still can not cleave one to another. America was founded upon Christian principles but now it is in money we trust. Hollywood has infected the entire world with the most vile sensuality since Sodom and Gomorrah and polluted the minds of our youth with violence and blood. Sin piles upon sin, too much never seems to be enough.
It is good and well to pray for the families of the victims but let us not forget the families of the survivors all over America and the rest of the world, they need to come out of the delusion. What delusion? The delusion that thinks that being liberal to the poor is evil. The delusion of the younger generation that votes against the elderly and the elderly who vote against the youth, all for lower taxes. Every move they make is for the sake of money. What part of your Christian faith is conservative? All of it? Conservative faith, conservative giving, conservative grace, holiness, prayer life, a life of conservative do as little as possible Christian service. No wonder God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, they worship a false Jesus.
We now have the greatest impetus to revival that this generation has ever known but we must look within ourselves first for this to happen. We must turn before we can ask others to turn. We must shake the mark of the beast from our consciousness and take upon us the seal of God. I say that Lucifer is the light that the church has been worshiping and calling him Je$u$. What do you think?
Read on for the responses this time. Reflections on repentance, love, Babylon, God's judgment and other things pertinent. There is a lot of wisdom coming forth from this group and love is at the center.
Jay
Dear Jay,
I would like to submit the following for the discussion on eternal security:
Heb 10:14
John 10:28-30
1 Peter 1:3-9
Heb 13:5
Rom 8:39
True saints bear fruit and persevere till the very end:
Luke 6:43-44
Heb 3:14
Heb 10:37-39
Heb 6:7-9
Jay, I know you are busy, so you don't have to respond to this.
An unworthy servant,
Colleen Wandmacher
So glad to read your thoughts on repentance. I agree with you completely. If I had not repented of my past sin(s) and do not continue to repent when I sin I would not feel secure in the Lord at all. But having done that and continuing to do that, I have security and peace which I would not otherwise have. No Christian can sin and just forget it. God doesn't, and the Christian who sins loses his fellowship with God and his assurance of his salvation until he repents. I John 1:6 --10. if a Christian becomes lost when he sins it would be impossible for him to repent seeing he crucifies the Lord afresh. Heb. 6:6
Thanks for keeping in touch. I'm resting in Him!!PTL!!!
Hello,
yet another thought provoking message,
i am reminded of the verse in the Word that i have hunted for over an hour but cannot find, where the Lord calls us to drink deeply from our own well of salvation, thus regenerating our faith and assurance in our saving Lord.
we are but men, and our minds are carnal in base, but the Lord declares:
"I am not a man that I should change my mind"
i remember arguing with a member of my church, who said that if God said do this or I'll punish you, and the offending person repented, then God had changed His Mind, but i disagree, i say these options are given to us up front, and God lets us change our mind's path, He has always had these options, but these are all He has( nothing is hidden), He doesn't "swap" them for something else, therefore He doesn't change His mind. we in a sense don't change our minds either, we are essentially the same person, but we are given a different choice of path to travel. in Christ we are able to renew our mind, but we don't really change it, since it is still us, and that is what God wants, us, with the renewed mind of Christ, not a different or substituted mind, or controlled, we always have free will.
hope this makes sense.
stay blessed,
Teresa
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Hi Teresa,
Good points. I heard someone ask the question once: Why do women have such clean minds? The answer was because they change it so often. Just a joke but a good lesson for us all. We are to renew our minds and renewal should be part of our daily lives, it is one of the freedoms that we have in knowing the truth and allowing it to set us free.
Jay
We are pretty close to eye to eye. I like everything you say here, and the clear way you say it. I might easily write very similar words, but they would have a different meaning to me.
Every thing a person conceives by thought is based on a basic fundamental assumption, or foundational belief. As in logic, everything must follow from and fit with the basic assumption. The interesting thing about the basic assumption is that it is, an assumption. It is a priori, or apparently obvious, or taken as truth, or believed, or seen by faith. And we may not always be sure which. There is a cognitive and an affective component - heart and mind.
Now we may be connected in heart, affectively, through the archetypal pathways to Spirit; but, again, the cognitive needs to be renewed according to that Spirit. And here is where we have such extreme differences in religions and denominations. New world heart and old world bondage, socially. Old skins, and new wine. World system reality, and frustrated love. Following leaders to death, quenching the Spirit within ourselves. Isaiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
Young men with the same inner yearnings make sausage of one another, and their cities, doing good.
The same is true of us in the strife of words. Unity is a precarious venture. Agreement about security of the believer is only skin deep because our basic assumptions are yet different.
I asked Timothy to consider something he has probably never thought about before, and he simply replied with what he knows - and the response from everyone else is like that. We need to exchange knowledge! I am trying to listen to what he is saying so that I may answer him with something more than what I know.
I am secure in my salvation when I hear His words. I am secure in my theology when I hear His words. My basic fundamental assumption and belief I read from the Bible, experience, from the witness of the Helper, and from the way it all fits together. God is love. The weakness of which is the word, love. As you observered in TODAY, yesterday, that word can be abused to justify anything.
Love is seeing no fault. Or, judging by knowing right and wrong is not love.
Any differences that you and I have are in the words, love, obedience, holiness, and sin: (To me) Love is keeping His commandments. Obedience is love. Holiness is purity of sight (not realizing the horrors of evil or good attributions). And, sin is ignoring God.
That is different than most because I understand my basic assumption as the negation of the foundation of the present world order: there is in truth good and evil.
I believe that there is no good or evil, in truth. It is the invention of Lucifer, fabricating iniquity, the reality of the world system. While the underlying premise of all our thoughts is the seed of violence, Christians by whatever name will go on striving with those not apparently like themselves.
The problem with understanding the world by good and evil logic, we are always looking for evil to kill it. Our greatest horror is that of exposing evil within ourselves; and, unless we can project it to some other thing to hate and kill it we are powerless.
We are yet fooled by natural reason.
We still live in Babylon, the place of confusion, where at the first cry for repentance we put away evil and embrace the good. The definitions of which are given to us by our leaders.
Everybody says that love only can cure us. And that is true. But we will not know what love is while we yet exist as gods, knowing the power of free will and judgment according to the sacred religious code of right and wrong.
Edifyuthers
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Yes Ed. And as long as we continue in that love, which like you say is obedience, we love each other just as it was commanded. What it does is take our differences and make them not as important as the unity that brings us together in that love.
As for me, I know that I am saved. Nothing can take that away from me but me, I know that, that is my hope. What that does is make the promise that God gives secure, this is my eternal security. Unfortunately, as long as the Bible teaches the conditional aspects of this eternal security, I cannot say that for everyone, that is up to them. Now I know that there is the possibility that I will turn away from the free gift of salvation that I have but I cannot see it. All I can see is the hope that I have that one day I will be glorified just like Jesus is. While I am here, I can only seek His glory and cannot glory in myself. I may fail in that sometimes but as long as there is the penitent heart that is conditioned toward renewal, there is a continuous flow of grace that makes me more secure. Pray that I do not fail in that respect.
Jay
(The original letter from Bill is not for display but I thought the answer is pertinent to the discussion.)
Hi Bill,
Getting back to you I would like to let you know that that last discussion on repentance was prompted by what you wrote.
It is real hard to tell you to put away what you love for the sake of obedience. The Lord is real in your life, He obviously deals with you in letting you know He is there and you have a heart for Him. Trust Him to lead you in the right direction.
I also sin, I am need of repentance. So the message is to repent but it does not have to come from me, all you need is to read your Bible and know that this is the message for all of us. I need to repent, I needed to do it today. Yesterday too, but I waited until today to do it, that's not right, is it. One way that the Lord convicts me of sin is when I pray. If I think of another person that I should be praying for, if there is revealed sin in my life it comes to mind and hinders my prayer, it becomes a stumbling block to get into the spirit so that I can pray effectively. Well, I either go on with my sin or I do not have the holiness necessary to pray for another's needs with power. My need for repentance must be dealt with or I cannot go on.
I share my example in the hopes that it helps you with yours. There would be many that will tell you that you do not have a problem but you already have recognized it as such so put away any hedonistic influences and try to get close to the Lord. It may be step by step or all at once but make those conscious decisions to step out in faith and try to know God's will for you. Each step back makes the next step back that much easier. If you would like to have a real anointing on your life, it must be from a position of holiness and you cannot do it on your own, ask for God's help, you already know how. Your problems with church is the same as mine but I went to church Sunday and may just stay there. It is a holiness church, they teach a holiness doctrine. They may not have it all completely right or have the whole truth but they know Jesus who is the truth. The important thing is that they love the Lord and they accept me in the prophetic without the charismatic confusion. And they do not condemn other churches, they try to work with them. Not that you need to find a holiness church but there are good ones out there and maybe there might even be one that you can strengthen.
You have made good progress, you have fought the faith and put away much already. Sometime there is a price to pay in your relationship to others but look at it from the eternal aspect of rewards in heaven, not in this life. If you are in a situation that is wrong and it effects another as well, then the wrongful act also wrongs another. This makes it doubly wrong. I hope I am making sense here because i do not think that i have to spell it out for you. Also, smoking is not a sin in itself, what is a sin is knowingly ingesting poison into the temple of the Holy Spirit. I smoked for years and had to quit or just plain get sicker and sicker. As far as drugs, I was a lightweight but I sure could put away the beer. The big thing was that I could be around others who would do these things and accept them as brothers, I could not condemn them as sinners, rather they were my friends. That means like laying around with dogs, you are bound to get a few fleas but you don't kick the dog to get rid of the fleas, he is your friend. I still love them and have a real affinity with them but there came a time in my life that I had to choose between spending time with those that brought me down or with those that could edify me and go toward the calling that I have. That is a process of putting worldly things behind us and setting our minds on earthly things.
Jay
... For thus said the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall you be saved; in quietness (doing nothing) and in confidence (trusting in our covenantj with God) shall be your strength: and you would not. But you said, No; for we will flee on horses;
I too am being filled with the PEACE which Jesus left with us -- and the prayer that we have been instructed to keep upon our hearts; prayers for the Shalom of Jerusalem. As I meditate upon this Peace, the Shalom -- I am continually brought back to the thought that we are that Peace and we are that Jerusalem. Yes, in the natural all this is taking place, and yet in the Spirit, there are the happenings that we are the participants in. We have been called to enter "His Rest" -- strongly and repeatedly over these past few weeks. In that "Rest" is the New Jerusalem manifested.. in that Rest shall His Life be clearly seen. In that Rest comes forth the LIFE which can then be shared with the multitudes -- multiplied in this great time of need. It is in that Rest that we each should be now... under His Wings in the Place of Refuge He has prepared for us... that His Name might be glorified in all the earth.
How do we enter the Golden Fields of Harvest (Glory) which surround us? By stopping at the "Rest Stop" He has directed us to and then entering His Field (His Kingdom) solely by His Grace. No 'works' shall enable you to enter -- No carnal, soulish horsepower will get you in... it is by quietness and rest; confidence and trust -- Love shall open the door into this new and Glorious Day.
When we pray for the "Shalom of Jerusalem", little do we know what it is that we are asking! May our hearts be expanded enough to receive all that God would pour out upon those who Love Him... that His Name might be glorified in all the earth.
Others will keep going on... fleeing on their horses; a natural separation takes place as one by one, those who can hear -- and obey, turn and enter that Peace -- leaving the path of the horsemen. Instead, may we be a people of Peace, those who have stopped at the Rest Stop of God (Christ Himself), and by Grace have entered His Fields of Golden Grains. Now and Forevermore -- a people for the "shewing" forth of His Glory
[Eph 2:7 "That in the ages to come, He might shew the exceeding riches of His Grace, in His Kindness toward us through Christ."
The Greek word for "shew" has a fuller orbit of meaning than just "to show".... to show forth, manifest, exhibit, display, show in someone or something to someone or something. And the fact that the word is in the "Middle Voice" making the translation literally: "To show forth for Himself"... or exhibit, display, demonstrate "for Himself".. or show forth "for His own sake".
HE is doing this *shewing* forth for HIS OWN SAKE! We are but the workmanship of His Heart.. and HE shall purify for Himself a people! The Literal of the Greek reads: "in order that He might show forth (exhibit, display, demonstrate for Himself) to the "coming-on (for themselves) eons" the excelling riches of His Grace, in His Kindness toward us through Christ. The English KJV reverses the order of the sentence and makes STATIC a Living, Vibrant, Command Performance in eternity where God puts on display (for Himself) in eternity as His Masterpiece of Creation; and the "coming-on eons" (for themselves) are approaching this Command Performance, where they too will learn of God's Grace, by His Demonstration in us.]
For the sake of the Natural Branch, the engrafted one shall manifest the LIFE of Christ -- that they might see the One who was crucified -- and be brought to their knees in repentance. For His sake this shall be accomplished -- as we Rest in Him.
Love, Linda
1 Pet. 4:12.---' The fiery trial among you ' [RV].
What is the purpose of ' the fiery trial '? What is the meaning of this permitted ministry of suffering?
Well, in the first place, it tests character. It discharges the purpose of an examination. An examination, rightly regarded, is a vital part of our schooling. It is a minister of revelation. It unfolds our strengths and our weaknesses. And so it is in the larger examination afforded by the discipline of life. Our crises are productive of self-disclosures. They reveal us to ourselves, and the revelations are usually creative of surprise. In the midst of the fiery trial we are filled with amazement at the fullness and strength of our resources. When the trial is looming we shrink from it in fear. We say one to another, "I don't know how I shall bear it!" And then the crisis comes, and in the midst of the fire we are calm and strong; and when it is past, how frequently we are heard to say, "I never thought I could have gone through it!" And so "probation worketh hope"; the heavy discipline is creative of assurance; the terror becomes the nutriment of our confidence.
But the fiery trial not only tests by revealing character, it also strengthens and confirms it. Hard trials make hard and much-enduring muscle. The water that is too soft makes flabby limbs; it is not creative of bone. And circumstances which are too soft make no bone; they are productive of character without backbone. Luxuriousness is rarely the cradle of giants. It is not unsuggestive that soft and bountiful tropics are not the home of the strong, indomitable, and progressive peoples. The pioneering and progressive races have dwelt in sterner and harder climes. The lap of luxury does not afford the elementary iron for the upbringing of strong and enduring life. Hardness hardens; antagonism solidifies; trials expose and confirm. How commonly it has happen that men who, in soft circumstances have been weak and irresolute, were hardened into fruitful decision by the ministry of antagonism and pain. ' Thou art Simon '---a hearer, a man of loose hearsays and happenings; ' Thou shalt be called Peter '---a rock, a man of hard, compact, and resolute convictions. But 'Simon' became ' Peter ' through the ministry of the fiery trial. The man of ' soft clothing ' ' is in the luxury of kings ' houses; the hard man with the camel's hair and leathern girdle is away out in the hardships of the desert. ' We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.'
Suffering and sorrow appear to be necessary to the growth of great souls. People nursed in ease and comfort are apt to be soft-fibred and flabby, and they grow into strength and nobility only as they are cradled in hard circumstances and rocked by storms. Great souls nearly always wear crowns that have been fashioned in the fires of great sorrows. Even the highest art springs out of the soil of suffering.
But the fiery trial not only reveals and hardens the character, it also develops it by bringing out its hidden beauties. Use the word develop as the photographer uses it. You know how he brings out the lines of his pictures. The picture is laid in the vessel, and the liquid is moved and moved across it; it passes over the face of the picture, and little by little the hidden graces are disclosed. ' All thy billows are gone over me.' That is the Lord's developer; it brings out the soft lines in the character. Under its ministry we pass ' from strength to strength,' ' from grace to grace,' ' from glory to glory.'
In Christ, Timothy.
Luke 10:18.---' I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven ' [RV].
The seventy returned with joy and surprise at the result of their mission: ' Lord, even the devils are subject unto us in thy name.' There is something childish and not wholly unpleasing about their delight. But we feel, as we have sometimes felt in hearing a modern missioner tell of his successes, that there is something superficial in their triumph; we know they think the Kingdom of Heaven nearer than it is. They are mistaking the skirmish for the campaign. The first word of Jesus unfolds a wider vision; the battle lies before us in all its terrible significance, the war of worlds, the world-old conflict between good and evil. ' I beheld,' or rather I was beholding or contemplating [the Greek tense expresses not a complete and momentary vision, but a continuous and persistent contemplation]; it is not a sudden dream picture, like the sheet let down by the four corners which Peter saw in his trance on the house-top, but an abiding thought at the back of the mind of Christ. He says, in effect, ' When I sent you forth, when I took My own commission, when I gave you yours, I was thinking not merely of the little triumph you return so joyfully to record; I was contemplating Satan fallen as lightning from heaven, the complete and absolute overthrow of evil. Your work is but a beginning, my vision is a vision of an end. What I began with the thought of is an absolute triumph. I was contemplating not the moderation of evil, its curbing and limitation, but its banishment; not Satan inconvenienced, driven to escape, vanquished at one gate of Mansoul only to make an assault upon another; but Satan overthrown, fallen as lightning from heaven, leaving the sky clear again and the air pure. Thank God for what you have accomplished, but do not stay there; there are greater possibilities than these if you will look to My larger end.'
The first thing we have to note is that this is the essential outlook of the reformer and the prophet of any exalted purpose. The true reformer fights to win; he fights in the strength of an inner victory he has already won in the world of ideas; he has seen Satan fallen as lightning from heaven. There are men of whom one has heard it said that they are at their best in a losing game or fight; but, however one may admire the stubborn courage of the beaten, the epithet is yet the description of the man who woke up an hour too late. The finest spirit is that of the man whose purposes have so completely mastered him that their failure is unthinkable; who has already seen and felt the evil he assails smitten to the heart, and who lives but to turn his vision into fact.
In the greater battles of life faith counts for more than any other single factor; it is the element that disturbs our calculations and measurements; we may weigh the natural power of a man to an ounce, we may measure the influence of circumstances with fair accuracy, but what difference his faith in his cause will make is a question that lies largely beyond us. It alters the whole range of the possible and the impossible. We may measure with some fair knowledge the forces of Satan, but the strength of the man who has contemplated Satan as lightning fallen from heaven is an incalculable thing.
Given a man of faith, and the heavenly powers behind him, and you have untold possibilities. History is full of such instances, men and women, single-handed, but with the heavenly vision, effecting what armies could hardly accomplish.
The spirit of our text is, to use a modern phrase, the spirit of moral idealism with regard to the conflict with evil. The note of moral idealism appears in the fact that the battle Jesus proposes is a battle to an end. His gage is thrown down for a death grapple. His purpose is the elimination of evil. It is written in His own Name: ' Thou shalt call his name JESUS; for he shall save his people from their sins.' A sinless world is His Divine event. The wages of sin is death, and the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death---death with his occupation gone, with no more wages to pay. This is the Christ vision: ' I beheld Satan fallen as lightening from heaven.' We cannot afford to forget the intensity of that contemplation with which the Christian centuries began. Let us return to Christ, like those earliest missionaries, with the glow of the world's progress upon us, saying: 'Master, we have accomplished much; the conditions of life are much better; your first apostles would hardly recognize the present world; the very vices of men are more refined, less brutal; the ape and tiger are dying if the fox and the peacock are still alive; we have hospitals, asylums, schools, and the battle is not so strenuous as it once was.' And He will reply: 'When I preached in Galilee and Jerusalem, when I died on Calvary, when I sent My disciples out into all the world, I was contemplating Satan fallen as lightning from heaven; no half victory, no partial triumph, but a full and absolute overthrow. Ye shall see greater things than these; forgetting the things which are behind, reach forward to those which are before.'
The centuries lie between us and those words of Christ, and there has come no dramatic fulfillment of them. The surprise of the Christian ages to those who look deep into life is the subtle tenacity of sin. Our spiritual warfare may still be described as against thrones and principalities, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Our superficial and our real progress are as the minute and hour hand of the clock. Hurry and the attempt to win sudden conquests nearly always meet with set-back and reaction; like the Israelites of old, we are forbidden to go out of the house of bondage with haste. The endeavor to deal in drastic and heroic manner with moral or social evil has changed its character, altered its emphasis, but has not mastered it. The old fairy tales tell of monsters that, under assault and hard pressed, continually change their shape, and so involved a complete and cumbersome alteration of attack. That is, in part, the history of our Christian centuries. We need to remember that if there have been developments in good quite unknown to the older world, so there have been new inventions of evil that were not named among the heathen. A man still counts in the moral progress of the race for the full value of a man. Evil is beaten not by the shout of the crowd but by the travail of souls. And so the actual advance of the world is always made by the way of compromise, not in an ignoble sense, but in the sense that we have to walk when we should like to fly; we have to be content to go one mile when we should fain go twain; we have to be glad to see evil a little less when we would see it annihilated.
It is hard upon ardent and fiery natures, but in a world where men are so unequal, where the prophet is in the van and the sluggard slinks to the rear, it must always be so. The dream of a decisive engagement with evil is only a dream. The battle is too wide-spread for this to be possible. Our real advance, whether politically or religiously, is always slow; we do not quicken the pace beyond a certain point without losing as much as we gain. We pass laws that are too severe, and they are neglected and inoperative; we press upon the popular conscience too severely, and there follows a period of reaction and recoil. We try to go fast, and new problems and difficulties spring up round our path. We make haste to slay and bury an evil thing, and it is like sowing dragon's teeth which spring up armed men. Practically, we have to be satisfied if in years of effort we have won a very little gain; if for a life's struggle we can see wrong not slain, but merely crippled; good not triumphant, but simply winning a wider support. Thorough work in the moral world is a matter not of days and weeks, but of years and centuries.
The danger is that in the slow, practical, and protracted battle the worker should lose the note of moral idealism, that his spirit should be infected by the depressing contacts of life, and he should come to think that to hold evil in check is all he can hope for, and that he should be content if by education and social laws the moral state of people can be moderately better. In the great half-Christianized world of our day there is surprisingly little moral idealism; felling no risk of the fiercer and more lurid sins, we take ourselves with surprisingly easiness. We confess in our formal prayers that we are sinners; but our imperfections, not being marked in scarlet, cause us little genuine disturbance. There are sins of the market-place and of the hearth for which we find light and ready excuse. There seems to rest upon us a kind of atmospheric impression that a morally perfect humanity is an impossible idea, that our weakness and frailty cannot expect anything more than a character in half tones, that in place of the white robe of Christian song we must accept a suit of pepper and salt and be thankful that it is not black. And this note is not the cry of despair, but the too complacent apology of self-tolerance.
And it will not do. Whatever it means for us, it means moral decadence for the new generation, new spiritual slaveries for our children. We have no right to forget the war-cry with which our Lord's conflict started; His vision ought not to fade from our sight, nor its inspiration die from our hearts. The battle our Lord began was a fight to an end. ' I was contemplating Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.' Cut off from that prospect and hope, the actual practical work has lost the spring of its energy. ' It takes a soul to move a body; it takes a high-souled man to move the masses, even to a cleaner sty; it takes the ideal to blow aside an inch the dust of the actual.' The Church of Christ which inherits His work must inherit His vision. It must be patient, slow, enduring, painstaking in its work, but it must throb with the passion of that far ideal; the battle is to the death. 'Nothing is good enough for us but the best, nothing high enough but the top, nothing far enough but the end, nothing fair enough but the new heaven and earth wherein dwelleth righteousness.'
In Christ, Timothy.
Forgive me Timothy for being a little late in showing my appreciation of your letter "The Fiery Trial", which moved me to tears. It takes us a long time to understand that God is at work in us through suffering when it is a question of personal experience, as opposed to an observation of another's growth. It is necessarily a painful thing, there is no small corner of our being that can be left untouched by the Master's hand if He is to transform us to His likeness. The work is great, how will He turn us into ones who shine like Him, who love like Him, who feel like Him, who work and live and see like Him unless we make ourselves available to Him to be changed by whatever means He chooses. We must be willing, because He will not force Himself on us, and our willingness is not hard when we see how unlike Jesus we are in our natural selves, in every place we care to examine we are an utter write-off.
There are patterns of things to be observed in the world around us that speak of the One who changes not. In artistic or mathematical exploration it becomes obvious quite soon how small errors of line or angle or calculaton become exaggerated to the point where the pattern is destroyed: that thing that started off pleasing and beautiful very soon becomes off-balance, untidy, sometimes ugly and impossible to be righted by itself to its place of beauty. We see this too unfortunately in ourselves as Christian brothers and sisters: how easy it is in the beginning to ignore that one little step "out of line" where we were lured by a seemingly small sin into rewriting the pattern. It is not long before we feel the discomfort more acutely, the error becomes exaggerated, the wild lines of protestations of innocence and self-justification are being drawn as we hang on tightly to what we know and love in the flesh. But we know this cannot continue, and patiently always, our Lord returns us to the place we lost our way, so that the beautiful pattern of His work in us can be continued in its perfect manner. There is no creator that knows and uses perfection like our God.
The process and pattern of perfection and our natural opposition to it is not a new story, it has its beginnings in Genesis, and we know very certainly that the sin that began there will ultimately be put to death, the whole Bible speaks of this process. Can we afford to be surprised in these late days that the exaggerated patterns of the enemy whose time is now short are seen scrawled across the headlines of World News in violence and death? I think not. But this is one fight that we know the certain outcome of, as we consult the Word, and if we read the signs correctly, Our Jesus is coming back and soon.
Meanwhile we watch and pray. Our outward man is perishing, while the inward man is renewed day by day: we feel the increase in tempo and hear the singing bobbins as the Master makes a speedy finish to the work that He has begun, and He moves like lightening! Marvel that we are being "knit" at all. Praise God that we are being knit together. The day is coming soon that we shall see Him, and when we see Him, we shall be like Him! Our hearts and minds are set on that new day that is slightly over the horizon, but that already fills the sky with a wonderful glow, Jesus is coming soon! Praise His Lovely Name!
Sending love from Mary
Hi Jay, everyone
It occurred to me that the temperature lukewarm, like the optimum temperature for rapid yeast growth in bread making (oh dear yes) is actually in a band, rather than a line, and quite a large band, the edges of which are hard to discern. At the bottom end it joins easily with the world, at the top end, just as easily with the true Church, speaking the right things, moving in the right circles, saying the right words, but in reality lukewarm. Here we find hypocrisy and subtle evils of the most dangerous kind.
It occurred to me also that lukewarm is place passed through while heating up, or cooling down. The very same temperatures will be passed through whatever the direction, whether a person is coming back to the Lord, or going away. How do we discern which direction a person is heading in, and does it matter? We have all been in that place where we desire to be hotter, I pray God we will not turn our faces the other way. In practice, if we are red hot for the Lord we cannot help but heat up those around us, and everyone can feel the benefit.
But there are some who, no matter what is said, no matter how hard we have laboured, will seek only to be in the bottom part of the temperature band: they are stopping their ears, they are closing their eyes, they are obstinately refusing to be warmed up. Brethren sometimes I think we have to hand them over to God. The NIV puts it in 1John 4:6 "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood." I think "knows" here means in the present continuing tense. I think there is a place where we have to let go and let God.
What is the temperature of the water that we move in? Are we sensitive to the leading and admonishing and comforting and guiding of the Holy Spirit as He speaks through our brethren? Are we finding ourselves desiring to warm up, to be doers not hearers only, to be going on, to be working and living and breathing closer to our God?
Time now to come out from that cooling bath that causes us to slumber. Time now to seek the heat of God's presence. Time now to immerse ourselves in the Word, in prayer, in God's love, and in our callings. Time now to rise up as a people full of fire and ready to meet our destiny, time is getting short!
Sending love from Mary
The Urgent Need of Repentance.
Luke 13:3.---' Except ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish '
Luke 13:5.---' Except ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish '
Luke 13:9.---' After that thou shalt cut it down '
When we take these three warnings together we realize how intense was the soul-travail of Christ for the conversion of men. The three words which He speaks are thee flashes from the fire burning in His heart, that passion for God and His Kingdom which He found it so hard to kindle in the cold hearts of men.
' That very season ' to which the first verse of this passage refers cannot be fixed chronologically, but it can be characterized spiritually if we look back to the previous chapter. It was a season in which our Lord, like His apostle afterwards, was pressed in the spirit; and vigor unusual, or usually visible, even for Him, glowed in all His words; He spoke of the fire He had come to cast on the earth, and of His intense longing to see it take hold; of the baptism of pain that awaited Him, and of the relentless grasp in which His soul was held till it should be accomplished; of the signs of coming storm in the sky, and of the wisdom of making peace with the adversary while there was yet time. We need to remember this spiritual tension, this awful feeling of urgency, if we would do justice to our Lord's three fold summons to repentance.
The circumstances under which the Galileans were massacred by Pilate in the Temple are unknown, but can easily be guessed. The Galileans were the most patriotic of the Jews, and it is natural to suppose that a disturbance to which a political color could be given was summarily quelled by the governor. To the Jews the action of Pilate was a horror of impiety: the Temple had been profaned, the nation insulted, the instincts of humanity and religion outraged. No doubt there was wild excitement in Jerusalem, and it is conceivable that the story was carried to Jesus as a person who made messianic claims of some sort, and who might be expected to show a practical interest in the honor of the country.
Jesus startled His informants, as He startles us when we read the story, by the abrupt diversion of interest. ' Think ye that these Galileans were sinners above all the Galileans, because they have suffered these things? I tell you, nay: but except ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish.' Jesus speaks out of that tension of the spirit just referred to; He has said to Himself, This one thing I do---I strive to create in men's souls the sense of God and of their state in His sight, and I must make everything minister to that. We can understand in this case how He does it. The Jews, as a whole, were in warm sympathy with the Galileans. The same blind patriotism burned in all their bosoms, and would eventually lead them as a nation to fatal conflict with Rome. certainly their patriotism professed to be religious; it appealed to God, and rallied round the Temple and Law; nay, it was the consciousness of being God's people, and of having Him on their side, that animated them for battle, even in despair. Yet Jesus knew that the path on which the nation had entered could only lead to ruin; and He saw in the death of these Galileans, with all its atrocity of circumstance, a picture and prophecy of the doom which, within a single generation, should overtake the race.
The moral motive to repentance is plain here. When we see lives ruined by the inevitable operation of forces which are at work in ourselves, God is summoning us with awful earnestness to change our ways. The more signal the ruin, the more urgent and imperative is the summons. When a career is blighted, a life cut short, a soul slain before our eyes, by sins to which we ourselves are not strange---by pride, by anger, by lust, by falsehood, by cowardice---what is it for? Is the tragic impression made upon us only to pass away? Is it to be a nine days' wonder, a thing to talk about, or to preach about? No, it is a voice from heaven, a voice with the emphasis of a blow, meant to stagger and shock the careless, and to make them think seriously of God.
The case of the men on whom the tower fell was different. It was what we call an accident, and the use made of it by Jesus raises the question whether an accident has a moral. The question is very often and very confidently answered in the negative; or; if a moral is admitted, it is limited, so to speak, to the physical sphere; the accident, so far as it has a purpose at all, fulfils that purpose when it compels men to examine the causes which led to it, and to take means to prevent its recurrence. If a train leaves the rails, or a ship goes out of her course and runs ashore on an unlighted coast, the ' moral ' is seen in the Board of Trade inquiry; if there is an outbreak of diphtheria or typhus, it is found in the report of the medical officer. When anyone goes outside of these and, after an appalling event, which cuts off many lives in a moment, speaks of it as a ' warning,' or ventures to hint at repentance, he runs the risk of being set down as a heartless fool. Why, then, did our Lord utilize this pure ' accident,' which no doubt made an immense sensation in Jerusalem, so directly and vehemently in a moral interest? Why did He say to the people who had been shocked by it, and who had felt as keenly as any moderns could the pitableness of it, and their own inability to render any real help, ' Except ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish '?
We must admit that on the lips of an unfeeling man, or of a man who had only an official interest in speaking about repentance, such language would be unpardonably offensive. It is the use of it by such men that has brought it to discredit. But Christ's interest in repentance was an absorbing passion; He lived and died to make men other than they are; He knew that the change described by this word was the one thing needful for their salvation; He knew immense difficulty, and He grudged everything---especially He grudged every great and solemn emotion---that might have contributed to it, and did not. Men, as a rule, have little feeling, and it is this that make their conversion hard. They live, so to speak, on the surface of their nature. Their common interests and pre-occupations are sufficient to engage them, and even to absorb and excite them, but they are rarely sufficient to reveal to them the hidden depths of their being, and to let them see that life has possibilities, and may have a purpose, which they have never contemplated. A great incident may have this heart-shaking, heart-searching, heart-revealing power. In the sight or the imagination of what has happened; in pity for the dead, for the hopes that have died with them, for the living they have left behind them; in the dim sense which visits the most hardened and the most unreflecting, that the unseen is not far off, that after death comes judgment, and that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God---in all this solemn experience men get a new light upon their natures, were it but for a moment, and the preacher of repentance gets a moment for his work which no arrogance and no flippancy of spiritual criticism should induce him to throw away.
The earthquake helped to convert the Philippian jailer; the fall of a tower, a crash on the railway, an explosion in a mine, may help---and, if we take Christ's example here as indicating a law, ought to help---in the conversion of all who are awed and startled by them. Such emotions are the opening of the nature to greater depths, the rendering of it more accessible to the interests to which it has hitherto been indifferent. Our Lord, in this lesson on repentance, teaches us that the waste of emotion is a serious thing for man, a distressing thing for Him, and for all workers for God. To see men moved, and moved deeply, yet not permanently, and not to the point of changing their life to the bottom, and putting it right with God, this it was that straitened His spirit, and moved Him to speak with such startling vehemence.
It is not certain that the parable of the fig-tree in the vineyard was spoken in the same breath as these two passionate words; the connection indicated by ' And he spake ' [v.6] is loose rather than stringent. But even if it were first spoken on another occasion, its insertion here is very apposite, and serve as an illustration of that guidance of the Evangelists by a higher wisdom in which their inspiration as historians is displayed. It rounds off the lessons of the passage on repentance; it presents the same appeal with the same importunity, on what seems at first a totally different ground.
There is no denying that the urgency of vv. 1-5 is very easily evaded by most men. Massacres and appalling calamities do not happen every day or at every door. ' What happened to the Galileans,' people say, ' or to those eighteen, is not going to happen to us.
The parable is Christ's answer to this skeptical mood. He seems to side with it, but does not allow it to evade His earnestness. All this is true, He says; the massacre and the sudden deaths are extraordinary resources of which God avails Himself; but His goodness also---that goodness which by your own objection so completely makes up life that you decline to take anything else into your reckoning---that goodness also is designed to lead you to repentance. God tries every way, because men seek to evade Him by every way. He tries severity, sudden, exceptional, startling, because they take goodness for granted; He tries goodness, uniform, ever-renewed, inexhaustibly patient, because He is good, and severity is His strange work. But it would be a fatal error to presume on His goodness. The parable ends with the same inexorable refrain as the verses about the Galileans and the fall of the tower. ' If it bear fruit thenceforth well; but if not, thou shalt cut it down.' Not to repent is perdition, let men argue about it as they please; if severity does not startle them into it, if goodness does not subdue them to it, if goodness does not subdue them to it, they are lost. The sternness and passion of these utterances do not deny, or even disguise, the love of Christ; they are as truly the expression of it as that cry from the depths of a Divine despair with which the chapter closes, ' O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!' Even after this the inexorable note is struck one more: ' Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.' No one has ever spoken so severely and with such awful urgency as Jesus, because no one has ever loved like Him.
Love like His does not always speak gently and act gently; love never can speak and act gently with effectiveness unless it has behind it capacious possibilities of moral indignation . . . Just as in the Master's love there are heights of tenderness and horizons of compassion where even our imaginations cannot reach, so, in the presence of persistent iniquity, depths of sternness are there that make us give way.
In Christ, Timothy.
Hello,
A thought came to me about a month ago that our society has tried to
make love obsolete. That is the point of the free market economic system,
to devise a way in which society can go on running even if every man hates
his neighbor. It is this, and not science or pluralism or any other aspect
of modernity, that presents a challenge to our faith. A society that takes
love of money as the highest good has managed to sustain peace and
prosperity much more successfully than any other. That is why so many
people turn their back on God, because they see that where religion has sown
war, apathy and lukewarmness have sown peace.
Of course many Americans would claim that our society is the most loving
in the history of the world, but what they call love is merely apathy. It's
not that we are better, but rather that we have avoided being tested.
Remember this last summer that our whole nation was ready to unite in the
conviction that Timothy McVeigh must die. When tested, we are just like
everyone else.
Love is revealed in that "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for
us." This says nothing about love being based on our likes or dislikes,
about how we feel about those whom we love. In fact, Jesus said that the
greatest kind of love is love for one's enemies. Love does not take account
of whether its object is lovable or worthy. We are called to love those who
disgust us. In fact, love by its nature tends to universality, since it is
given without regard for the qualities or characteristics of its object. If
we try to love some people and not others, we will end up loving no one.
There is a lot of speculation about America being punished by God. If
so, it is for our failure of love. We are rich while others are poor. We
are at peace, yet we execute our own citizens. We have said, "Thank you God
that we are not poor or violent or barbaric like the rest of the world.
Thank you that we are not Arabs or Africans. Thank you that we are the most
moral, most civilized, most Christian nation in the history of the world."
Now we are being tested and judged in our callousness. If we respond in
anger, we will die in our anger, but if we respond in love and humility, we
will overcome evil with love.
Eric
=================================
Hi Eric,
It has been a long time, glad to see that you are still around. We had a really great discussion on the topic of communion of saints last year for those wondering.
You really hit the nail on the head with the mention of love in our current situation. I suppose that it is the capstone of every situation but many can talk about love and quote scriptures and decry the absence of it by others but it is quite another to live it out in all of our actions. We are of the same heart and mind concerning the apathy and lukewarmness of the church today as well as the American arrogance that brings us into our present distress. If there is any judgment in all this, we have judged ourselves unworthy of all of the blessings that God has granted to this country. We are not truly free, we are enslaved to the mammon that is worshipped here and call it freedom because we can exploit the whole world to our own gain in the name of manifest destiny and the free market. Many of us have been saying it for some time but it is as if we are attacking their god. They do not worship the Jesus of love, they worship the love of the false Je$u$. That is where repentance is so important today.
Jay
Dearest Beloved's of God,
To you who are the called, the chosen and are proving yourself the faithful, created to manifest the Glory of God -- called to be 'trees of righteousness for the display of His Glory' ~~ Grace and Peace and
Love to you all in Christ Jesus -- may our Beloved make His Face to shine upon you.... May God quicken His Spiritual Truth, by the power of the Holy Spirit, may He enlighten the eyes of all our hearts, that
we might know the Hope to which He has called us... the riches of His Glorious Inheritance in the saints. (Eph 1:18)
As I continue to be filled with the Glorious revelation of the purpose of God in His creation of man -- His Purpose for all of creation -- the purposes and end of all the Good Works of God -- this 'plumb line',
this Purpose established by the Word of God Himself, continues to sever all thoughts, teachings and actions of man into one of two camps: Our glory or the Glory of God.
In this morning's meditation upon the Scriptures, the Lord led me to consider the parable of the tenants, as reported in Matt. 21: 33-46. In the unfolding of His Truth, the reality was shown... man -- especially
religious man -- would steal from the Son, His Glorious Inheritance -- taking for himself, "His Share of the Crop". We are no different than the Jews were at the first coming.. mouthing the words of
relationship and yet still taking for ourselves 'His Glory', His Inheritance. Remaining separate from Christ in our thinking -- and because of that separation (in our minds), remaining under the power and
influence of Babylon.
Before I share, there are two foundational 'deliverances' which must be clearly understood. First, the deliverance from Egypt and the deliverance from Babylon. Paul gives us his experiential statement of
these two aspects of our 'growing up' -- our salvation process. He speaks of his primary focus upon the Cross of Christ, through which 'the world has been crucified to him' and through which 'he has
been crucified to the world'. (Gal 6:14) We have been well-taught concerning the 'deliverance from the world" (Egypt) -- but we have accepted many surface meanings of our deliverance from Babylon;
Because we have not received in full the necessary Work of the Cross in our own individual lives -- we have not truly separated ourselves from Babylon; instead, we have re-defined Babylon to mean
that which we want it to mean; equating it often with the world systems of religion, or with the Catholic church, or with the IC... or with whatever we have "left". Rather than embracing the reality of the
need for the world being crucified to us, we have "Christianized" whatever part of the world that we want to take with us -- We have left the world, but we have taken the world with us -- we know this,
and we continue to justify it, rather than repenting and seeking the deliverance that our Beloved would give to us, by faith. Because we refuse to do this, we continue to be live in bondage/slavery to the
desires and lusts of the world (now clothed in 'Christian' apparel -- garb/words/leaves) -- and even as the Jews did at the first coming -- we steal from the Son, His Inheritance (Matt 21:38) -- His Glorious
Inheritance in the saints.
This truth is at the core of God's Message to the Church in this day -- for the End, the Goal, the Purpose for which God created this world, is for His Glory; for His Name's Sake; He will not share His Glory
with anyone who would steal it from His Son, and yet He will freely pour it out upon all in whom His Son resides. He will Glorify His Son, and those, in whom His Son is Glorified, shall be glorified in Him. The
Glory which they manifest is the Son being Glorified by the Father. The early church understood this truth much more clearly than we seem to... for we, because of the lack of crucifixion of ourselves,
continue to take for ourselves His Glory -- and this will be stopped, for His Name's Sake. The time of judgment upon the Church is surely upon us -- for God will have a people who are created for His
Glory, for His Praise in all the earth... and this people shall rise like stars in the midst of the darkness, radiating the Glory of God for His Name's sake. This people are the exelexato, those called out from
among others, for His Name's Sake - that Paul spoke of in his letter to the Ephesians: those called forth that God might "shew forth" (manifest, declare, reveal) the Incomparable Riches of His Grace,
expressed in His Kindness to us in Christ Jesus... God's Show Place and Show pieces of Glory to reveal even to the ages to come, God's Workmanship for the Display of His Glory. (This opportunity is
given to all -- and yet how few are willing to embrace the death that is required for this Display of His Kindness.)
Jesus is to be glorified in His Holy Ones. He is here -- and yet He is coming too... for this manifestation and expression of the Glory of God is the purpose and the plan of the Father.. and in these times of
darkness, as are coming now upon all the earth (a time of fear and insanity as has never before been seen on earth), this Glorious Power -- the Glorious Radiant Power of Love shall be openly manifested
in all those who willingly embraced the Cross -- the world crucified to them .. and the crucified to the world.. in those who left Egypt (the glory of the world) and left Babylon (the glory of themselves), the
Glory of the Son shall be revealed.
Separate from Christ, there is no Glory; separate from the vine, the branch dies... yet man, under the control and bondage of the Babylonian mind frame, continues to build his own tower to heaven, He
does not live in Egypt any longer and yet he does continue to try to reach the Glory of God by his own good works, his own efforts, his own power, his own strength -- rather than by apprehending
his co-crucifixion with Christ by faith. Only by becoming the least of all, could he become the greatest of all -- and yet, as long as he continues to walk by his own sight, he cannot embrace this reality of
the Kingdom. His eyes are yet blinded by the radiance of pride -- and he cannot see -- nor hear -- nor embrace this call to death; he cannot become the least of all, for his heart still needs to be the most...
he has left Egypt, but he has not left Babylon.
The Father has given us His Son, who IS the radiant brilliant presence of His Glory. Yet as long as we continue to live, to speak and to "be" separate from His Son, we continue to manifest the rebellion and
wretchedness of those who would take from the Son, His Inheritance -- His Glorious Inheritance in the saints. As long as we make provision for our own independence from Christ, we continue to live in
Babylon. As long as we fail to apprehend the reality of our purpose -- for the display of His Glory -- we continue to live beneath the high calling of Christ... and as long as we continue to take unto
ourselves His Glory, we continue that rebellion from which we have been delivered. Our life now is not 'our life' -- but is rather Christ Himself... not us, but Christ in us, who is to be glorified. In order for this
transformation of thought to be accomplished, we MUST see ourselves as we really are... and see Christ as He really is -- the only goodness that there is in us. When this truth is embraced, we will not sit
in judgment of others (we cannot, for we have seen ourselves.. for it was "the sinless man" whom Jesus said could cast the first stone). Instead, in His Glory Light, we will see ourselves as the "chiefest
of sinners", even as Paul did at the end of his life. This was the fruit of his maturing life -- not an elevation of self, but a humbling; not arrogance but instead weakness... Living in the state of being of
thankfulness and appreciation of the Grace of God -- knowing more and more his own need for God's Grace!
Oh for a church of those who know this truth -- and live this truth. Those who would run from any teaching which would serve to elevate man, rather than Christ!
May we look upon all the facets of our growing up -- as this crucifixion process being accomplished... for God will be glorified in the end -- and He will be glorified in a people who have been engrafted into
the Crucified Christ -- Glorified in those who have been crucified. All the earth shall be filled with the Glory of God ... and He shall share this Glory with no one -- yet His Glory will be manifested in all those
who, by way of the Cross, by the Way of Christ, have entered into this Divine Union with Him. May we see again our own ongoing need for a Savior, and that in recognition of our own need, we might kin
ourselves to all the others who are our brethren after the flesh -- that through Love who lives in our hearts, they might become our brethren after the Spirit. This is Love's Work.. this is Christ in you -- the
Hope of Glory... who loves us while we were yet sinners... Can we do any less?
To God Alone be the Glory and Praise and Honor..
I am with you Eric. And we are in a very small minority at the moment. But wait until the war has dragged on for ten years and see how many folks are waving flags.
A few days ago I was at a family fish-fry, at our place on the lake. Of course we talked about what everyone is thinking about. Everyone wants to kill evil! Why? Because it makes us feel good! Anyhow, I stood alone when I said the war will not end until the reason for it is reconciled. In other words, I said those maniacs had something to say to us that we will not hear. And suddenly the party was over. Everyone split to their own tents.
Sadly it is like that in the church. We are still trying to live up to good images, and for as long as we do we will not be able to - except in delusion. Righteous indignation is a trip, and nobody wants to give it up. Then, the judgment and mercy of God is our own way on our own heads so that we can learn the sting of being judged. His judgment is mercy and that is a good place to be.
I am some worried about my country. I think we may be in for judgment. But more than that, I grieve for our church because had we been seeking God's face all along -rather than the comforts of Babylon - the land would be healed. I blame us. (John 3:17),
We have a terrific ongoing discussion here, as you have observed, about repentance. I maintain that we do not know what to repent of, nor what to repent to. Nor will we make the effort to seek God's instructions. Every man's way is right in his own sight, and we communicate in confusion. For instance we seek holiness as sinlessness, but we do not know what sin is - only the letter of laws and traditions. Because we have not repented!
When we repent everything changes.
I am suggesting that sin, as we traditionally think about sin, is a distraction when it, since the cross, is no longer an issue. Whatever it is, confess it and get on with the pilgrimage where meeting with God face to face puts everything in a new light.
One of the reasons the church is anemic is because mucky mucks do not listen to members who seem to be weak. Only loud leaders lead. And they lead by virtue of saying what everyone wants to hear, to stay in power. How then are babes heard, when Jesus stated that in the lesser gifts, or youths, His enemies would be defeated. The seemingly least are the greatest in the kingdom of God because this is the opposite order of the world system where everyone is competing to be the greatest. If and when we ever grasp this - in fellowship confessing our faults to one another - the fire will go out and we can have a unified church.
You see it is not so much whether we are right or wrong, but whether we see through love that is hardly affected by right or wrong.
If you and I lived in the third world those evil men and women would be patriots, even though the Koran also condemns murder.
Fresh meat! Welcome to the list.
Ed
Hi all,
So what about issues of World Peace, and decisions that World
leaders have to make for our safety? Well I don't know that I buy the
line that they are acting in our best interest anyway, there are lots
of things that happen in politics that are presented in certain ways
to convince us of their necessity, that is what politics is. Over
here it is said not infrequently, "If you find a good politician,
shoot him before he goes bad with the rest". We are sick of talking
the talk. The decisions will be made and peace will come and go, and
governments will go in and out of favour. Disasters happen and it is
not long before someone comes out with some information that the so-
called peacemakers engineered the war in the first place. What do we
really know?
I feel I have to seek God's forgiveness really for not seeing
the size of the harvest fields, and being reluctant to witness in
certain circles. Why is it I feel happier on the streets - is it
because I don't fear I will be looked down upon? When was the last
time you gave the gospel to a politician? I don't suppose there are
many labourers there. If there were we would undoubtedly see
something of the love of Christ in big decision-making, and peace
issues.
I think I could be accused of copping out by not entering the
discussion on what should or shouldn't be done about terrorists. I
think it will be done anyway regardless of my feeble view. I think to
suggest any possible solution other than what I know for sure Jesus
requires is actually copping out because it allows me to ignore my
own sinful tendencies and thoughts which do not as yet conform to
Christs image. It is so easy to say "this is love" or "I love"
or "let's call a meeting about how to love" or "they arent loving" -
all of this is beside the point. The point is we haven't loved
enough, it was in word, and not in deed. And none of us can think we
have done any better than anyone else.
Salvation isn't a one-off moment, it is a lifetime walk with
Jesus, and the only thing good about us is Him and what He has put in
us. If we scrape away the rapidly forming crust of our inflated
opinions we will find that He is there, waiting, as always, to
outwork His life in us. He will show us where we differ, where we are
in error, where we fall short as individuals and He won't give up on
us, He tenderizes us to yield to Him, rather than assert ourselves
over each other. Oh this is a great peacemaking work.
I am reminded of Corrie Ten Boom's story years after World
War 2, of meeting the German officer who had slaughtered her family.
How would she forgive him? She extended her hand to him, yielding to
the gentle pressure of Jesus to do so. He grasped it and they shook.
Just a gentle yielding, and all of the Christlike forgiveness flowed
forth, each one finding release.
Just a gentle yielding.
Dearest Mary, this is what I wrote this morning.. but didn't send. I will share it now.
Love, Linda...
May the One who is Love express the truth as He is:
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth:
But whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity."
As long as we live, using as our primary frame of reference or standard of behaviour, the unreconciled relationship with God, rather than looking to the Life of Jesus Christ as our new creation life-pattern -- we cannot yet grasp the foundational truth of the Gospel: GRACE; the Undeserved Favor of the Lord. Under the New Covenant, **we** did not get what we deserved -- because the Gift of LIFE was freely given to us through Jesus Christ. Because we did not get what we deserved -- and because we know it was not because of anything that we did, which made us see this truth and receive in our hearts the Gift of Life, we cannot take the position of judgment upon others... we are not the judge, we do not see the hearts of men .. If we got "what we deserved," we would still be dead in our sins and trespasses, just as we were when the Spirit of the Lord rescued us.
It is only by the Grace of God that we had the ears to hear -- for the Word declares that we are held captive; blinded and deafened by the gods of this world. Because we know that -- because we know our debt has been forgiven by the One who holds the note.. we can only cry out for that same Grace to be poured out upon our brethren who are still dead in their sins and trespasses! Doing unto others what we desire they would do unto us! Not hating us -- but being that light of the World that Jesus said we were.
Love goes right to the place of need and embraces us in our darkness and begins to overcome the evil in us with its goodness... This is the Good News of the Gospel. Love meets us where we live and then begins to lead us out of that place of captivity, into the Glorious Freedom of the sons of God. Like the prodigal son, as soon as we turned our face toward home, the Father rushed out and met us, smothering us with His Kisses!
Why did the son begin to consider that even the servants in his father's house had it better than he did? Could not that be the 'effect' of the Grace of God, turning his heart toward the things of Heaven? The prodigal's return was but the action prompted by Love released in his heart.. Love expressed in his kindly thoughts about his former home. Grace began with the Wooing of God... and resulted in the prodigal's return to Home -- and Love.
If we always filter our thoughts and understandings through the lenses of the old testament prophets and the other old testament lives which are shared with us to reveal what did not accomplish the restoration of humanity to the Divine Life of the Father -- we will continue to fall into the ditch of human performance -- for we will try to walk along holding onto two conflicting opinions; thinking ourselves judges of others.. while yet declaring for our own lives, in accordance with the Word: God is the Righteous Judge.
The Gospel declares the judgment of God, the wrath of God, fell upon Christ -- He who had no sin, became sin for us and took that sin to the Cross for all of mankind... our mission to to share this good news with those who are yet manifesting a life of slavery to sin -- for whom the Son sets free, is free indeed!
Judgment and Mercy have already kissed -- at the Cross... may we declare this truth to all those upon whom the Grace of God has fallen.. That they might not fear turning away from that which led only to death.. that they might run to the Lover of our Souls for LIFE. This is Love's Work... not judgment, for judgment has already been rendered at the Cross... He became the curse for us... that we might walk free of the curse which is falling even now upon all men. Paul's letter to the Romans says that God's Wrath is already falling on all the unrighteous.
We all fall short (Harmartia) of the Glory of God -- this is the Standard which is met in Christ. He in us, is the Glory of God.. and in Him, we no longer need fall short of it... it -- He -- is in us.. and wants only to Live His Live in and through us... manifesting the Glory of God. May His Great Love overshadow all those who belong to Him -- that His Body might be made manifest in all the earth. In Faith and in Love..
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity."
In Love, Linda
Dear Jay and friends,
I have been in this list since the beginning but this is my first post. I am
a Brazilian living in NYC with my husband. In the last couple of years God
has been speaking to us about new things that don't fit in the churches we
used to go. He has been showing us that what is more important is to rest at
His feet and worship Him with all our hearts. We have been doing that and
have been studying the Bible and found precious treasures that we had never
seen before which have make us feel closer to the Father. Nevertheless we
feel so lonely spiritually that I have been trying to go back to the church.
We have been to a couple of them, but felt empty there. We started to have
meetings with another couple, but a pastor told this couple that we were
wolves and they went to this pastor church and became members there. We
finally found some old friends that were having meetings at their home and
invited us. We were so glad! But it turns out that these meetings are as
traditional as a church meeting can be and we are feeling that we are not
more welcome to their meetings because we told them that we would like to
submit to one another, and to the word of the Spirit, not just to the leader.
So he, the leader, has just called us to say he has something very serious
to talk to us and that he doesn't want us to meet with the other members of
the group when he is not around. We are feeling so sad. We know we have
been growing so much in the Lord in His grace and Love yet sometimes we
wonder if there is something wrong with us. Can we be right and all the rest
be wrong?
In the shelter of El Elyon
Dearest Ana,
Yes -- I am sure there are many of us here who have experienced what you have described. Overcomers are described as a people who "follow the Lamb wherever He goes"... In our ongoing conformity
to His Image, we must also receive at the hands of the religious, the same labels (even witchcraft) -- the same rejection -- the same persecution by those who believe they are speaking in line with the
letter of the law. How else will our hearts be conformed to His Heart's Image unless it is broken by the very ones who claim to speak for Him? There IS a great cost to this calling -- if we would be His
Disciples, according to Jesus, all other human relationships are to be secondary to our Relationship with Him -- the One to whom we belong. This allegiance puts us at odds with all those who would put
themselves between us and our Lord... but how else can this allegiance be proven, except by the rejection of those who have been de-throned in our hearts?... even by the rejection of those that we
Love and respect in the Lord. The wounds we receive at the hands of our brothers are the most 'effective' wounds :) -- for we expect rejection from those we know don't understand us -- but the
wounds of those that we think should understand us, are the "best" for bringing out into the Light our own fleshly reactions. Praise God.. Romans 8:28 becomes a Promise that we cling to and live by!
Ana, I welcome you in the Name of Christ. Please share what the Lord puts on your heart to share -- and may the Holy Spirit shed abroad in your heart -- and in all our hearts -- His Love. He is the
Koinonia-Creating Presence of God -- and where He is, we are one. May we always protect the unity of the Spirit -- knowing this unity will come under attack by those powers of darkness who recognize
the Kingdom of God being built up -- piece by piece. May He envelop you in the Adhesive of His Love as He inserts you into this little family of His Lovers... like a puzzle, His Kingdom becomes more and
more visible, by the Love that we share, one with another.
Your sister in Christ, who is Love,
Welcome to a group of outcasts Ana. If you have been following, you know that this is the point that many of us are at, being misfits. But we are the living stones that fit real well into the temple made without hands. There are good churches however, as good as they can be anyway. I know that a perfect church would not be so perfect as soon as I walk into it. The story of your pastor is a familiar one however. Don't let it bother you, just trust in the Lord and ask for His perfect way with you. He will guide you and protect you even to death.
I am fortunate in that I am now attending a little church on the other side of town. It is a holiness church. There are different kinds of holiness churches just like everything else but this is real good one, the people are nice, they have a revival attitude and the pastor loves the Lord and accepts the five-fold and thinks my web site is just great. Sunday, there was a visiting evangelist that laid hands on people after the preaching. When he came to me, instead of me falling back, he mentioned the terrific anointing in the place and had to ask for a chair for the next few people. It is a nice feeling to be going to church again but I was in the wilderness for a long time bouncing from church to church looking for the love and attitude to do God's will instead of man's. I actually just gave up and thought that the fellowship of you all was enough but I still have that desire to have a local fellowship. I needed it.
We submit to each other here as well. Most of us, anyway, no mothers and fathers, just children that listen to the Lord. Love and humility, real important. I know that there are prophets that get a little pushy sometimes and say things that they should not but then we are still all learning. As time goes on, this message will get to the other churches, not all of them for many will still be asleep when we are called to the wedding feast. We do need to spread the message but still, "But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant."
Jay
September 19, 2001
...because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade-kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith-of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire-may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."
...nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
"No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit.
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.
For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay. But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him." But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.
Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case-things that accompany salvation.
Shad
your sister in Sandpoint
maranatha
our Lord comes
Each time I come across that word "lukewarm" I have to stop and think about it, as I did reading through "Change Of Mind". Lukewarm is no place for anyone in these troubling times. Lukewarm is us being abhorrent to God and being spewed out of His mouth. Lukewarm is a dangerous mixture of hot and cold, of life and death: not so much hot as to be good for anything; not so much cold as to be rescuable, or teachable. One foot in each camp. The "best" of both worlds. Light and dark, good and evil, love and hate, Spirit and flesh, all mixed together in an homogenous sludge of pap.
maranatha
I've been lurking for quite some time on this list, not saying anything
mainly for lack of time and because I find it so hard to get my own life in
order before I can try to speak to others. However, after what has been
happening to this nation over the last week, I feel as if I have been caught
sleeping. It is as if the Lord had said, "See how suddenly things can
change. My return will be just as sudden and unexpected."
from your sister, a sinner Loved by God
Linda the Beguine
Well we need to have a look squarely at what Christ's love is
if we are going to show it in the face of this tragedy, and like you
say Jay, it is easy to talk the talk etc. I am so glad that for a
start the love of Jesus is so PERSONAL, He didn't say, hey you, get
over here and stand under that flag and you can have eternal life, He
said "Mary this is a narrow way and right now I want you to see
yourself as I see you because you need to know who you are, there is
this question of your sin". So if I want to show this love there is
no point in standing up and directing everyone else what to do, not
without knowing each individual heart. But I can love my enemies (not
a few) when I meet them, and I can meekly and gently instruct those
who oppose themselves if I come across that, and I can live my life
before the Lord responding personally to the things that come my way
with the love that the Lord has given me.
Much love from Mary
Ana
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