The Judgment Seat
To answer these questions concerning judgment resurrection and the
kingdom, we should first approach the judgment seat of Christ. We must
understand that this judgment pertains to the works that we have done
while here on earth. The scriptures teach that we shall "all" appear
before the judgment seat: "For we must all appear before the judgment
seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body,
according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad." II
Corinthians 5:10. Now a judgment may already be given before we appear.
Works do not save us, we are saved by the blood of Jesus through our
faith in Him: "justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath
through him." But just as James teaches, faith without works is dead
being by itself, so even though works will not save us, they will be
evident if our faith has genuinely partaken of His spirit.
Robert "gets the ball rolling" first in the responses with the scripture
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ
Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you
free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:1-2) Now if there is no
condemnation, then that is the judgment pronounced upon us - not guilty.
And it is pronounced upon those that are truly in Christ Jesus where our
sins are "remembered no more forever."
This is probably boring to many of you but for me to study these things
is exiting. We may not have to know these things if we are walking in
the spirit already but conversely, Christian teachers misrepresenting
truth is terribly misleading for those that are seduced into thinking
that they are saved and sanctified when they might not be. We may never
understand in this life but we still look to Him who discloses
mysteries.
We know that not all Christians are "in" Christ Jesus. They may know who
He is and have that mental ascent that causes us to believe in the first
place but it is those that are walking in the spirit who are truly in
Christ. Obviously those Christians that operate in the flesh will be in
a different walk than those in the spirit. There are those that teach
salvation is of faith alone and there are those that teach that it must
also include the evidence of love and the witness of the spirit. There
are those that quench the spirit and deny the power and there are those
that are filled with the spirit and exhibit the power.
We are taught in the revelation of John that after the beast and false
prophet are thrown into the lake of fire that satan will be bound for a
thousand years. The first resurrection must be at the beginning of the
millenium but the structure of next verses is what caused my original
confusion. Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,
and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were
beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which
had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received
his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and
reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived
not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first
resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first
resurrection: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be
priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand
years." My confusion was in taking verse 5 out of context.
The big question that we need to ask ourselves should concern what the
heavenly calling is. Eternal life begins now: "The hour is coming, and
now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of
God: and they that hear shall live." From the responses, we see a
judgment and a resurrection judgment, a private judgment and a general
judgment and as we shall see, there is resurrection and there is the
resurrection of the dead. We have those that have had deliverance that
apply to judgment, that it might not matter in the long run, Jesus is
the resurrection and the life, there is still a question of being raised
in a mortal body (re-incarnation), righteous judgment begins with
salvation into the light and disclosed at the second coming. There is
certainly more than one resurrection but the important thing is not to
look for a reward but look to Jesus.
Peter asks the million-dollar question - 1 Peter 4:17: "For the time is
come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin
at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the
sinner appear?" At the last judgment, said Jesus, one issue will decide
the fate of men - have they fed the hungry, given drink to the thirsty,
welcomed the stranger, clothed the naked, visited the sick and the
imprisoned.
Now we come to the question of being translated, there is the dead in
Christ and there are those that have been translated. God is truly the
God of the living, not of the dead. There are those of us that have been
raised in newness of life already and those that await resurrection
judgment but we all believe that there are loved ones in Heaven now and
there are many of us that still believe in the communion of saints. This
is not just those that take the Lord's supper with saints around us but
actual communication with those that have gone on. Don't be surprised,
this is a valid teaching if God is truly the God of the living, it is
not communication with the dead. I have my own views but will reserve
them for others to respond. I will say that some of the reformation
teaching set the church back when everything like the proverbial baby
with the bath water was thrown out. We are to be reconciled with the
truth of our Fathers, not separated by throwing out half-truths. I could
go on and on and there are still more questions but let's take this to
the throne of grace and see where He may lead us.
Let us look for some answers on the differences between the heavenly
calling and the millenium. Also get back to me on the differences
between those in heaven now and those awaiting resurrection. Also on the
communion of saints. Be blessed.
Jay
Dear Brother Jay;
In the study of the "Resurrection of the Dead" there are several points
which
must be made in order to correctly understand the subject at hand; The
first
one I usually make is the difference between the "Resurrection" and the
"Resurrection of the Dead." The Jews asked Jesus a question concerning
Seven Brothers all having the same woman, one after the other; They
asked
Him "In The Resurrection, whose wife shall she be (Matt 22:28)?" and He
answered them thus:
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the
scriptures,
nor the power of God. {30} For in the resurrection they neither marry,
nor
are
given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. {31} But as
touching the resurrection of the dead (He is speaking of Something else
here), have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
{32}
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God
is not the God of the dead, but of the living. {33} And when the
multitude
heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine (Mat 22:29-33)."
Now the terms "The Resurrection," and the "Resurrection of the Dead" are
two
entirely different subjects; We find that Jesus is "The Resurrection" in
Jn
11:25,
therefore "In the Resurrection (Christ)" there is neither Male nor
Female,
etc.. (Gal
3:2).
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on
such
the
second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of
Christ,
and shall reign with him a thousand years (Rev 20:6)."
The word "First" is Protos:
4413. protos, pro'-tos; contr. superl. of G4253; foremost (in time,
place,
order
or importance):--before, beginning, best, chief (-est), first (of all),
former.
It is self-evident that this Scripture is not dealing with the "First
Resurrection" in the order of a sequence of time, for if that were the
case
then
the resurrections of the old testament would come to mind; But this is
dealing with a "Resurrection" of "The Best" or "Highest Form.." The
resurrection of Lazarus, Jairus' daughter, and the young man at Nain are
out,
also the resurrection of Tabitha is not in view here; So what are we
looking
at??
Paul describes the "Resurrection of the Dead" this way:
"There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and
another
glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
{42}
So
also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is
raised
in
incorruption: {43} It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is
sown in
weakness; it is raised in power: {44} It is sown a natural body; it is
raised a
spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
{45}
And
so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last
Adam
was made a quickening spirit. {46} Howbeit that was not first which is
spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is
spiritual
(1
Cor 15:41-46)."
First of all, there are three "Glories" in association with the
"Resurrection of
the Dead"
#1 - Star Glory = Passover (Spirit Salvation - Saved, but still
corruptible
and
Mortal)
#2 - Moon Glory = Pentecost (Soul Salvation - Saved, but corruptible
puts on
incorruption - still Mortal)
#3 - Sun Glory = Tabernacles (Body Salvation - Saved to the uttermost -
Incorruptible and the Mortal puts on Immortality)
Note: It is obvious that the Church has not yet attained to everything
that
the fullness of the Feast of Pentecost has provided, for "This
Corruptible"
has not yet fully "Put on Incorruption (See 1Cor 15:53)." We are still
in
the process of putting the "Moon (or, Soulish things)" under our feet..
It is my belief that the "First (or, Highest Form of) Resurrection" is
shown
here to be "Sun Glory;" In the Book of Revelation we see the Bride of
Christ
with all three "Glories" identified as being resident within her:
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the
SUN, and the MOON under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve
STARS (Rev 12:1):"
In the Song of Solomon we read concerning the Bride of Christ:
"Who is she that looketh forth as the morning (Jerusalem above, as
opposite
of our first mother "Eve," or "Evening" - See Psa 110:3), fair as the
moon
(Moon Glory), clear as the sun (Sun Glory), and terrible as an army with
banners (Star Glory - Song 6:10)?"
Is this enough to get the ball rolling??
Your Brother;
Robert Burgess
I can tell you of my own experience of judgment. Three years after I
became
a Christian I was baptized with the Holy Spirit and Fire (a spiritual
ball of
fire fell on me in the middle of the night...twice) and when this
occurred I
was in the very presence of God and my physical body was dying in His
presence. I was almost dead when I remembered my family who 'were not
ready'
and immediately was given back my life. For the following next 5 months
the
Word of God came alive to me, as well as some teachings and my husband's
words to me and even my own mail. It was at this time that the Word of
God,
the written Word of God became my judge as well as my justifier...I
almost
went out of my mind! It took 10 years for God to literally separate
truth
from error in me. The name of Jesus has been my deliverer from the lies
of
the enemy and I have learned to use it. This is a very condensed
version of
what I know of the judgment of God...I have heard there are at least
three of
them....
Nancy Flanagan
Jay,
Bill Caraway
Greetings in Christ, Jay.
I am 49 years old, and have known the Lord since I was 2. My memory
goes
back to the days of being potty trained -- not that I remember
everything
from everyday, but I will never forget the visions as a child, or the
healing the Lord performed.
As a young adult, I all but forsaken my personal relationship with Jesus
Christ in exchange for being indoctrinated in the *true church* ...
which
was whatever denomination I was in at the time. It was in 1983 when I
met
a sister in Christ who gave witness to things I had always believed, but
never heard taught in the churches. One such thing was that the kingdom
was within, and a day would come when death will be no more. She
invited
me to a home group. It just so happened that the fellowship was
operated
by believers who had heard Bill Britton, and were rejected by the
Assemblies of God church where they once attended. I was in the same
fellowship until 1996 when we disbanded. It's a long story, but let's
just
say it was time to remove the tutors and governors and be taught
directly
by the Father.
The church ordained me, but I don't think much about the card.
Ordination
only seems to mean something to the congregations who think it qualifies
one to be right. I have shared with some congregations, and do alot of
writing via email and articles. I think of myself as a connector --
putting people in touch with others for fellowship and sharing. About
twice a year, my husband and I travel to a congregation in Des Moines,
Iowa. We live in Rockford, Illinois, and there is not a kingdom
congregation here that we know of. There are two local pastors who have
received revelation, but they like their sacred cows of a natural
rapture
so they can run and escape instead of going through. One pastor will
not
allow me to share with his congregation anymore because he thinks I will
teach against the natural rapture .... and I certainly would if the Lord
allows it. So, the pastor is right.
Receiving your email is a witness of true communion among the Body,
where
each shares what the Lord has revealed and is revealing. God does not
give
the total picture to any one person. With that said, I would like to
share with you on the judgment. You wrote:
***We all realize that there will be a judgment. The confusing part is
that
there will be several. Some time ago I called for a discussion on the
resurrections and got little response, something that I needed to work
out
myself I thought, but the group is much larger now. The idea of the
judgments and especially the resurrection judgment keeps coming to my
mind
from time to time and I would like a good prophetic discussion on it. I
am
sure that it is just the confusion that I have about these things, I
hate
being confused so I am bringing it to the group. ***
Martha, Martha, Martha ... a woman who believed that her brother
would rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus Christ
spoke
something profound. At the foot of Lazurus' tomb, in flesh, bone and
blood, Jesus Christ said, "I am the resurrection and the life." The
resurrection is not an event. It's the person of Jesus Christ. Christ
in
us is our resurrection. To quote Romans 8:11;
" But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead
dwell
in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your
mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
Jesus raised Christ, (the anointed), from the dead. Christ,
being
the Spirit of God that was breathed into Adam after his body was
formed.
After His resurrection, Jesus stood in the presence of His disciples and
breathed on them saying, "Receive ye the Holy Spirit." (John 20:22)
The
Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of the Father that raised Jesus from the
dead. One Spirit. In Titus, we are told that the Holy Spirit was
*re*newed to us. It is the Spirit of Christ in us that raises us from
the
dead. Death to man is seen as having no life in the body. But, it's a
lying sign and wonder, because anything that does not live eternally is
already dying to die. Man is born dying. Being born again by the
Spirit
of God is living to live.
The Lord used seed in many of His parables about the kingdom.
The
life of the plant is within the seed. Everything that the plant will
become is within that small seed. So it is with the anointing in us.
It's
likened to receiving the Spirit of Christ in seed form, and then
producing
up to 100 fold. What makes fruit, fruit, is that it has seed. When
Adam partook of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, , he didn't
immediately fall dead or do nothing but evil. It takes time for seed
to
germinate and produce the life within it.. When that life comes forth,
it
breaks the outer shell, and the earth becomes the home for the roots.
First, the corruptible puts on incorruption. The corruptible being
carnality in nature and ways. Then, the mortal puts on immortality.
1Corinthians 15:42 tells us that the resurrection is sown in corruption.
Our bodies become immortal and eternal because of the eternal nature and
ways of God risen in us as our life ... not because of an event, but
because of the person Jesus Christ, transforming us into His image, by
His
Spirit that dwells in us. The earthy vessel and it's carnal ways is the
corruption that resurrection, Jesus Christ, is sown in.
As far as those who have physically died, I have no idea about them
coming
back and receiving physical bodies. I have pondered this and taken it
to
the Lord, but the only glimpse of an unction I have is to understand
that
resurrection is not re-creating or reincarnation. The most common
explanations of the resurrection is actually a form of reincarnation,
where
spirits return to different bodies, for the old bodies have gone to
dust.
The Lord would need to re-create bodies for them to indwell, and I truly
don't think that is even necessary is you're already spiritually alive.
In
addition, I have considered 1Corinthians 15:45-47. To God, there are
only
two men ... the first Adam, and the second Adam who is also the last
Adam.
No man in between. Therefore, we might be talking about one spirit for
all
of mankind. I can't explain it. These are just my thoughts concerning
those who have passed on.
Getting to judgment:
The fullness of Jesus Christ in mind and heart is the
resurrection.
This fullness being carried out but not yet full is the WALK of the
cross.
The walk of the cross is the process of sanctification to make one
mature
and to become the image of He who is the author and finisher of
salvation.
And, sanctification is the way of judgment. The judgment goes all the
way back to the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. It calls good,
evil and evil, good, and believes that God does both. It is
hypocritical,
for it believes that what God tells us not to do because it's sin, that
He
does, and it's not sin.
There are many believers who say they are Christians and
believe
Jesus is God. However, when it comes to seeing the Lord as He is, we
have
fallen short in being not too much more than Jews who are still waiting
for
our Messiah to come. We want to believe that Jesus is that Messiah, but
we
don't want to believe that He is the true witness of the Father. Isn't
that just like the Jews of old thought? Jesus did only what He saw the
Father doing, and spoke only what He heard the Father saying. If Jesus
didn't do it, the Father doesn't either. As the true witness of God,
Jesus
also shows us the methods and manners of God.
The judgment of the Son is to reveal the truth and have it
believed. John chapter 9 ... entire chapter. Judgment comes against
the
fruit of the knowledge of good and evil to call what is evil, evil and
what
is good, good and believe that God only does the good. This is the
resurrection of life, and the resurrection of damnation/judgment. We
need
discernment of what is good and what is evil, and to choose the good
only.
Eternal judgment is when we judge in righteousness what is
good,
and what is evil, and our judgment never changes. For example, if not
telling the truth is evil, then it never becomes good because of
circumstances. That doesn't mean that we might not ever be untruthful
again. What it does mean is that we can repent instead of justifying
the
evil, calling it good. Godly sorrow works repentance unto salvation
that
is not regretted. (2Cor 7:10)
Love in Christ,
Jay, in response to your question, I will share my
thoughts/convictions/understanding through this writing that I posted
awhile
ago on my discussion list. Perhaps there are others here whose spirits
will
bear witness. May God enlighten the eyes of hearts to see the Hope of
our
Calling, and the wonder of being HIS Inheritance! Love, Linda
Dear lights of the Most High,
The early church -- and especially the Eastern church -- understood this
fiery,
cleansing of souls by the Light and Life and Love of God, and the church
fathers wrote often concerning this sanctifying-unifying work of the
Holy
Spirit.
"The immaterial and Divine Fire enlightens and tests souls. This fire
descended
on the apostles in the form of fiery tongues; this fire shone upon St.
Paul, it
spoke to him, it enlightened his mind, and at the same time, blinded his
eyes,
for flesh cannot bear the brightness of this Light. This Fire, Moses saw
in the
burning bush, this Fire in the form of a chariot caught up Elijah from
the
earth... angels and spirits in the service of God participate in the
brightness
of this Fire... This Fire expels demons and destroys sin. It is the
Power of
the Resurrection, the Reality of Eternal Life; the Enlightenment of holy
souls,
the strengthening of the rational powers." (St. Macarius of Egypt,
Spiritual
Homilies, V, 8, XII, 14)
This Light, seen by the apostles on Mount Tabor, is proper to God, by
His
Nature; Eternal, Infinite, Existing outside of Space and Time, it
appeared in
the Theophanies of the Old Testament as the "Glory of God" -- a
terrifying and
unbearable apparition to created beings, because foreign and external to
human
nature, as it was before Christ!
St. Gregory Palamas says, "He who participates in the Divine Energy,
himself
becomes, to some extent, light. He is united to the Light, and by that
Light,
he sees in full awareness all that remains hidden to those who have not
this
Grace; thus he transcends not only the bodily senses, but also all that
can be
known by the intellect... for the pure in heart see God... who being
Light,
dwells in them, and reveals Himself to those who Love Him, to His
beloved." (22
Homilies of St. Gr. Palamas, Athens, 1861, pp 175)
"The mystery of the Eighth Day... is the Beginning of this Parousia in
holy
souls; the first-fruits of the final revelation, when God will appear to
all in
His Inaccessible Light. That is why, according to St. Symeon the New
Theologian, 'for those who have become the children of Light, and sons
of the
Day which is to come, for those who walk at all times in the Light, the
Day of
the Lord will never come, for they are always with God and in who are
already
enlightened by the Divine Light .... but it will be suddenly revealed to
those
who dwell in the darkness of passions, to those who live conformed to
this
world, attached to the things that are perishing. For these, that Day
will come
suddenly, unexpectedly and it will be terrible to them.. terrible as
Fire,
which cannot be borne.'
The Divine Light becomes the principle of our understanding; in it we
come to
know God and we come to know ourselves. It searches out the depths of
the
person who attains to union with God, it is for that person, the
'judgement of
God' before the Last Judgement. For according to St. Symeon, there are
two
judgments: one in this life, the judgement to Salvation; the other,
after the
end of the world, the judgement to Condemnation.
"In this present life, when by repentance, we enter freely and of our
own will
into the Divine Light, we find ourselves accused and under judgement;
but,
owing to the Divine Love and Compassion, the accusation and judgement is
made
in secret, in the depths of our soul, to purify us that we may receive
the
pardon of our sins. It is only God and ourselves who, at that time will
see the
hidden depths of our hearts. Those, who is this life, undergo such a
judgement
will have nothing to fear from another tribunal. But for those who will
not, in
this life, enter into the Light, that they may be accused and judged,
for those
who hate the Light, the Second Coming of Christ will disclose the Light
which
at present remains hidden and will make manifest everything which has
been
concealed. Everything which today we hide, not wishing to reveal the
depths of
our hearts in repentance, will then be made open in the Light, before
the Face
of God; and the whole world, and what we really are will be made
plain." St.
Symeon, Hagioritic Tome, P.G., CL, 1225-7;
At the Second Coming of Christ, all will be made fully conscious in the
Power
of the Divine Light. But this consciousness will not be one which opens
up
freely in Grace, according to the Divine Will; it will be a
consciousness
coming, so to speak, from outside, and developing in persons against
their
will, a Light being united to being 'extraneously', that is to say,
"outside
Grace" as St. Maximus has it.
The Love of God will be an intolerable torment for those who have not
acquired
it within themselves!!!
According to St. Isaac the Syrian, "those who find themselves in gehenna
will
be chastised with the Scourge of Love. How cruel and bitter this Torment
of
Love will be! For those who understand they have sinned against Love,
undergo
greater sufferings than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The
Sorrow
which takes hold of the heart which has sinned against Love, is more
piercing
than any other pain! It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are
deprived of the Love of God... but Love acts in two different ways: as
Suffering in the Reproved, and as Joy in the Blessed." [Ed.Theotoki,
LXXXXIV,
pp 480-1]
The resurrection itself will reveal the inner condition of beings, as
bodies
will allow the secrets of the soul to shine through. In his vision of
the last
things, St. Macarius of Egypt expresses this thought: "The Heavenly Fire
of the
Divine Nature", he says, "which Christians receive in this world, where
it
works within their hearts, this Fire will work from outside, when the
body is
destroyed; it will restore again, the disjointed limbs, and will bring
to life
the bodies that have decayed..." (Spiritual Homilies, XI, I' Pg XXX!V,
544)
At that time, everything which the soul has stored up in its inner
treasure,
will appear outwardly, in the body. All will become Light, all will be
penetrated by Uncreated Light. The bodies of the saints will become like
the
Glorious Body of the Lord, as it appeared to the apostles on the day of
Transfiguration. God will be All in All, and Divine Grace, the Light of
the
Holy Trinity will shine forth in the multitude of human hypostases, in
all
those who have acquired it; they will become like new suns in the
Kingdom of
the Father, resembling the Son, transfigured by the Holy Spirit, the
Giver of
Light.
[This is the Light-string vision I carry in my heart, given by the Holy
Spirit
on the Festival of Lights (Hanukkah) in 1997] I will share that vision
with
anyone who cares, or you can go and read about it on my web sight at
geocities.com/beguine_wrenco. The Lord though the vision of the
Light-string
showed me that He intends this "all becoming Light .. all penetrated by
the
Uncreated Light" to happen and I am believing for it to happen anytime.
(In His
timing) I believe that we have been coming through an intense time of
harvesting the 'tares' from our hearts, in preparation for this
Light-show!
... The tares, in our hearts, which the Holy Spirit has been bringing
out into
the LIGHT.. as the Lord does a great purification work in those who LOVE
TRUTH
(even the truth about ourselves!). I believe there is a body of
believers
already prepared (faith-heroes from all generations) who pressed on into
the
fullness of Union with God, who are the Blessed Ones who take part in
this
Display of His Glory-Light!
In Love's service to the Bride,
Hi Jay,
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first
resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God
and
of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
I do not even try to discuss trib. any more because I have found that it
is
not clear cut, BUT I do find
it clear that the FIRST RESSURECTION is before the Thousand Years and
the
Second is After.
I have found NO evidence to support "other ones" as some have said in
the
past. Nor have I found any
evidence that our Heaven will be anywhere but on a New Earth. Anything
else
borders on fantasy.
Scripture says we will be caught up to MEET Jesus in the air, but does
NOT
say we go anywhere
else other than we will continue to be "with" the LORD in like manner or
"condition" not necessarily
location (ie-heaven).
Heaven is where GOD's throne is, and it appears to me that will be on
the
Earth.
GOD BLESS,
I have been keeping up with the discussions of late (I haven't been led
to
add much more input than was already stated so I've kept silent), and I
check
the five fold today regularly to read the various articles. In line with
all
of that, I submit here a word that I believe God is speaking to the body
right now. Judge it as you see fit and feel free to disseminate it in
whatever manner pleases you.
Focus 9/6/00
Grace and peace to all,
Jachan Watkis
Jay, I think I got it! Regarding the Resurrection and the fact that
there
seems to be 2 variations. Well, they are both right. I will try to
explain.
At the Second Coming: Those that are alive, that is survive, will live
disease, crime, etc free. Except, the 144,000 chosen will go to Heaven.
Those
that are dead and worthy of resurrection will go to Heaven as angels.
Those
unworthy, well, eternal death waits for them. What do you think?
September 14, 2000
I can't wait to read the responses to this one. You are definitely
feeding
us meat - this is no place for babes like myself who are still
nourishing on
the sweetness of the "milk" provided in the word. This is also no place
for
the faint of heart or those on the edge of belief and unbelief. I had an
outstanding time deciphering your analysis and questionings. There is
much
to study. I cannot help but ponder the exciting possibilities concerning
what role the "Manifest Sons of God" will play during the resurrections
and
the judgements. Are they going to play any role at all? Are they the
144,000? Will they be like the sons of Aaron? Is there a Levitic
nature
prevailing among them now, festering, so that by the time of the
resurrections and the judgements they will automatically fall into that
role
predetermined by divine order? And what of Jesus' stern proclamation,
"No
man knows the day or the hour..." ? Does that also apply to the
applications, methodology and earthly discernment of the resurrections
and
the judgements? By my own admittance, I am lacking in this area of
study.
Your questions seem to spark more questions within me.
Several weeks ago, you replied to me since I visited the web page.
Please
forgive me for not getting back to you sooner. You asked that I share
something about myself. I don't know where to begin, or how much to
share.
All judgment is given to the Son. We rule and reign *WITH*
Christ.
I understand that to be ruling over our carnal nature, and not over
others. Each time we obey Christ in doing no evil, we are ruling with
Him.
And each thing we overcome, we are reigning with Him. We are crucified
*WITH* Christ. I see this as having our hands nailed so they do no work
of
their own, and having our feet nailed so we do not walk our own walk.
In
that position of being crucified, the only life that operates through us
is
the life of Christ. When I speak of obeying Jesus Christ, I am
speaking
of His commandments of love. He did say that if we love Him, we will
obey
His commands and our reward is that He will manifest Himself to us.
Barbara
Last evening, the Lord brought confirmation concerning our
growing-understanding of the "Heart-Judgment" which He has been
accomplishing
through His Holy Spirit's Sanctifying Work of Grace in the hearts of His
children. The Gospel bringing a growth in grace and knowledge of Jesus
Christ,
a growing experience of His Divine Light... a Light, which according to
St.
Macarius of Egypt, is the Fire of Grace, kindled in the hearts of
Christians by
the Holy Spirit, making them shine like tapers, before the Son of God!
your sister, Linda the Beguine
Gene
In retrospect to all the prophetic vocalizations of this day, I hear God
calling for a people who will focus on Him. Many great promises have
been
made and are being manifest in this hour. God has sent great provision
for
all who are His, but we must not get enchanted by all these things. Let
us
not look to God simply because a promise is at hand, but let us look to
Him
solely to see Him. If we were to receive nothing else from Him, would we
be
satisfied with just His presence?
In this hour when the true worshiper must be revealed (Jn 4:23) let it
be
understood that the true worshiper seeks after the face of God.
"One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after; that I
may
dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the
beauty
of the Lord, and inquire in his temple" (Ps 27:4)
There are many benefits that come from being in the presence of the
Lord, but
we must get to a place where we forget about those benefits and
concentrate
on Him.
"You we worship you not your blessing, nor your power, your glory, nor
your
grace; but you Lord we want you, cause all else is nothing when we are
lost
in your embrace" (worship song)
JWatkis@cs.com
Mike
-----------------
Hi Mike,
I have received several good responses on this, praise God. I will work
on something probably tomorrow. As to the 144,000, this is the JW
position and I do not buy it. If sanctification is the dividing line,
then there must be much more than that and it will include those who
have already passed on. Still thinking about it though, so I have not
yet made any firm conclusions on it myself. It may develop into a
discussion on the communion of saints as well. Thanks.
Jay
-----------------
But isn't the 144,000 in the Book of Revelation?
Mike
-----------------
Hi Mike,
Of course, they are in the revelation. I just do not think that they are
the only saints. They will be here and they will be saints, and there
may be 144,000 but I cannot believe that there will only be that number
included in the heavenly calling.
Jay
-----------------
Well again, those that are dead at the Resurrection possibly go to
Heaven
if worthy, those that are alive at the Resurrection remain on the Earth
if
worthy. They live disease, crime, etc free. Does that make sense to you?
Mike
-----------------
God is not the God of the dead, He is the God of the living. I will have
more when I put something together.
Jay
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