Justification and Sanctification
If we, the CHURCH, are not the "manifest sons" of God, who is? Good
question. Karen has asked this and I have put it at the top and just
below it is what I think is a perfect answer by Edwin and confirmed by
Jachan below and of the submission that Linda speaks of. The things
spoken there are true and there have been many sons of God led by the
spirit throughout history but the revelation of the last day ministries
that we speak is to prepare the Bride for the Bridegroom. This concerns
the Second Coming. This is basically the question that I wanted to
address this time and that is the issue of whether all Christians in the
church are saints or not. I have already said that I do not believe
that, while the promises of God are for everyone, many do not stand on
the promises. I am not alone in this teaching either, many understand
that this type of exclusivistic thinking is in error. A study of history
will show that it was not even taught until the Puritans started
thinking that they were the approved saints and looked down on anyone
who did not measure up to their sanctimonious pretensions. The "all
Christians are saints" doctrine is taught by many groups such as the
Baptists, Presbyterians, Church of Christ and many others including some
but not all of the Pentecostals and taken to the Calvinist extreme by
the Mormons. Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I know, it is not
taught by the Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Orthodox and
Holiness groups. I can remember people in some of the churches that I
have frequented praising God with the testimony "saved, sanctified and
filled with the Holy Ghost."
God's answer to puritanical thinking was in sending John Wesley and
Whitefield to ignite the Great Awakening and bring the evangelical
movement into the realm of the power of the Holy Spirit. In their
preaching, they knew quite well that many were saved but not sanctified
and it brought forth revival fervor. Much of the thrust of their message
was not only getting people saved but getting the saved sanctified.
Wesley taught that sanctification is a process and Christian perfection
was an ideal within the Christian's grasp. I really do not think that
any one of us can be truly perfect as long as we are in the flesh, yet
we are still admonished to be perfect like our Heavenly Father is
perfect. Although we can do nothing to earn our salvation, entering into
the realm of holy living, denying ourselves and allowing ourselves to be
led by the Spirit is our responsibility from there. We may never truly
reach that goal but it is only in making the attempt that we can
approach it.
Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were
already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for
which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Sanctification is not a given for the redeemed, it is a process. Let us
press on toward that mark and not think that we have attained it.
To be a saint is to be separate. In the broad sense of the word, we are
all as Christians separated from the rest of the world as being
redeemed. This is where the confusion lies in that we are all saints in
the broad sense. This is not what we need to discuss here but rather,
are we all saints in the straight and narrow sense of attaining the
ideal that will distinguish the Bride of Christ from Babylon? "Get out
of her, my people" is the command given to those in Babylonian confusion
and captivity. If those in Babylon are referred to as being "my people"
then we cannot deny that they belong to God, are Christians just like
we, and are saved. The Body of Christ, being the Church, is made up of
the saved and sanctified. The Bride of Christ is holy, without spot or
wrinkle and totally sanctified. Much of the Church is fragmented with
members living in sin, prideful and contentious, mammon worshipers,
bound by false doctrine, filled with false teachers and pastors who deny
truth and Holy Ghost power to the flock and teaching and thinking that
they are saints. The Bride of Christ is separate from these things.
If we are to enter into the role that God has truly intended for the
manifestation of the sons (and daughters) of God, then we are to be
among those that prepare the Body to be a spotless and holy Bride. If we
are to do that, we must be holy, sanctified vessels ourselves, led by
the Spirit of God and teaching a holiness doctrine.
There are many more questions concerning this topic. What of the
difference of the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom on earth to come?
What of the saints being translated in a twinkling of an eye and those
who sleep awaiting resurrection judgment? Will all eyes see Jesus when
He comes, or will He come as a thief in the night? Does the rapture
include the whole body of Christ or just the saints?
Thanks for those several of you that actually took the time to introduce
yourselves. Many that contribute often do not need to but it is good to
hear where you are from and know the background of those on the list. It
takes courage to identify yourselves to a group like this. I think that
I will just leave this as an open invitation for everyone on the list,
especially for the new ones.
Also below is more about that enemy of restoration site that we
mentioned last time and confirmation that they use their hatefulness
through deceit to prove their misguided thinking. This raises the
question of whether this kind of malice shows that they are truly not
saved or just Christians led by a foul spirit. There are several heresy
hunter cults like this that deny the power of the Holy Spirit. They
probably think they are all saints.
Please get back to me on the issue of the difference between
justification and sanctification.
Jay
Jay, this is of interest to me. If we, the CHURCH, are not the "manifest
sons" of God, who is? I thought Jesus said we would have power from on
high, do greater works than HE did (which I personally believe has to do
with number, not magnitude of greatness) because the same SPIRIT that
dwelled in JESUS (and raised HIM from the dead) dwells IN US! It amazes
me
that throughout history the people of God, whether it be the descendents
of
Abraham in body or soul, are always "looking for" a "future fulfillment"
in
the PROMISES of God, instead of seeing that we are NOW in the Spirit,
NOW
in the PRESENCE of GOD, HE inhabits the PRAISES of HIS PEOPLE, HE DWELLS
IN
US, HEAVEN IS WITHIN US, THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN US. It's the very
thing the disciples kept missing over and over while Jesus walked among
them as well. Not that I don't believe there is a time when the devil
will
no longer have any kind of power even to tempt or lead us astray, or to
harm us, that will be HEAVEN in ALL OF THE FULLNESS OF GOD come to
earth.
It seems to me that the Lord Himself spent three years training people
on
the earth to just have faith the size of a mustard seed, just the
tiniest
bit will do, but they kept wondering when and how and what and all those
things we don't need to know. As Francis Fragipane reminds us, the Lord
gave us a task, just as He gave Noah a task, and it wasn't a day or an
hour, "JUST DO IT", and if we BELIEVE we WILL SEE THE GLORY OF GOD!
Yes,
He is restoring the Kingdom of God in this earth, and yes, WE are HIS
CHILDREN! (If you want to say "manifest sons" then that is what you may
call the CHURCH), but I would have to say that Peter, Paul, James, John,
Luke and all those apostles were also the "manifest sons" of God. As
have
been all TRUE saints, like St. Francis and the desert fathers, all those
true believers who lost their lives and followed so closely in the
Lord's
steps in all of history, but maybe at this particular time there is a
special anointing or something where the whole church will come into the
realization of WHO WE ARE (instead of only a very few of us) throughout
ALL
THE EARTH, and this is going to be some kind of awesome and incredible
revival that will take place right before the very awfulest and darkest
hour of persecution and slaughter we have yet known
(on a worldwide level, instead of just a few of us). What do you think?
I
can't say this for sure, just my thoughts on this subject. I think
sometimes we get so caught up in these doctrinal things, terminology,
stuff
like that, we can sometimes lose sight of WHO we are and what WE ARE
HERE
TO DO, which is, to "preach the gospel to every creature, to all the
ends
of the earth, love our neighbor as ourselves, love God with everything
in
us at all times" and to put it simple BE REAL....in the midst of all the
reprobate and the religious all around us, above all else, FIND WHAT IS
REAL, TRUE, LASTING TREASURE, hold onto that and let everything else go,
whether it be your things or your head, let it all go for the sake of
the
LORD in the end. LOVE NEVER FAILS. Karen
Here is another attempt at relating the manifest sons and the Bride:
A Spotless Bride
Before Jesus comes again, two momentous tasks must be completed:
Actually, the perfecting and uniting of the Church is a prerequisite
for
the winning of the nations for the Kingdom of God. The Church must be
renewed
so that it can manifest the purposes and the glory of God. The world has
no
other witness than that of the Church to the power and love of God. This
witness requires our total obedience to the scriptural pattern for the
Church
and to the minute-by-minute guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Sons of God
2 Corinthians 3 presents us with a miraculous mirror. When we look
into
an ordinary mirror, we each see our own likeness. The mirror adjusts to
each
observer. The mirror of 2 Corinthians 3 is more amazing yet. When we
look
into this mirror, we see, not ourselves, but Jesus. It is our face that
changes; we are transformed to be like Him. We will then be unleashed on
the
world as a many-personed company of the sons of God.
This is the time of the manifestation of the sons of God. The world
is
waiting in travail for us. Unbelievers live broken, tormented lives.
They
seek reality in drugs, occult practices, and strange religions. They
destroy
each other on the streets of our cities and they destroy their countries
with
religious and tribal wars. The world around us and around the globe
cannot
fully know the glory of God until the sons of God are revealed.
Jesus' prayer for His little group of disciples at the last supper,
which
also included prayer for us, was that they and we would manifest His
glory.
It is impossible that this prayer of Jesus not be fulfilled. When the
sons of
God are revealed, many around the world will suddenly realize what they
have
been seeking, and their longings will be fulfilled in the reality of the
glory of God.
The Glory Revealed
Churches have lately been somewhat lazy about following these
instructions; but those who have received the fullness of the Holy
Spirit are
in travail (i.e., intense intercession) for the manifestation of the
glory of
God through the sons of God.
Jesus was most fully glorified in His death and resurrection. He is
also
glorified when we make our lives a sacrifice for Him and for others.
Prophetic Intercession
Christians often tend to understand intercession as petitioning God
to do
something. They plead for healing of bodies and minds, for conversions,
for
world peace, and a multitude of other requests that seem right to them.
Petitioning is aimed from earth to heaven; commanding operates from
heaven to
earth. We command what God commands; we speak things into being in
Jesus'
Name.
The catch to this is that we have to know exactly what God commands
in
any given situation. This should not be too difficult since Jesus
promised
that His sheep would hear His voice. But, of course, we have to
cultivate a
close relationship with our Shepherd and be constantly listening for His
voice.
Just as Ezekiel was instructed to prophesy to a bunch of dead bones,
turning them into a powerful army, so we can prophesy to our churches,
our
communities, and even to nations to bring them into line with God's
purposes.
Becoming Manifest Sons
This manifestation will occur first in fellowships or churches that
are
earnestly seeking God's presence, making this a first priority, spending
time
and effort together in deep prayer.
The manifest presence of God is exportable. When people go out from
fellowships in which the glory of God has been manifested, their very
presence on the streets, in public places, and wherever the Spirit of
God
leads them will be contagious; many will be drawn to them to receive a
share
of that glory. Members of such fellowships will be able to enter other
gatherings of Christians and convey the presence of God to them. Just by
praying in such places, they will cause a remarkable transformation.
Soon
this will become universal.
Unity
The churches have appointed endless commissions and held numerous
councils to explore areas of common ground and to bring organizational
unity
to the church, but these have not really kept up with the proliferation
of
new denominations.
The truth of God is so great that no individual or group of
individuals
can comprehend it all. Each denomination, church, and group of believers
has
a portion of the truth. Unfortunately, each tends to think it has the
whole
truth and that the others are wrong. Therefore, they lack mutual trust
and
have trouble sharing their insights and learning from each other.
We are certainly not promoting organizational unity or a new
inclusive
denomination, nor are we talking about uniformity in worship or culture
or
structures for ministry and outreach. Our aim is, rather, submission to
the
Holy Spirit, working in harmony under the Lord's direction. (The hand
and the
mouth, though very different in form and function, work together to
enable us
to eat, not because they have formulated principles for cooperation, but
because both are obedient to the head). Their obedience is total and
instantaneous.
If all members of the worldwide body of Christ practiced this kind
of
obedience to the Head, unity would be inevitable and without discussion
or
argument.
Whenever Paul speaks of the unity of the Body of Christ, he almost
invariably goes on to talk about the diversity of gifts and functions of
the
members. In Ephesians 4, he begins in verse 4 to stress the unity of the
body, but in verse 7, he states that "grace was given to each of us
according
to the measure of Christ's gift." In verse 11, he begins to enumerate
ministries in the body, speaking of them as gifts: "His gifts were that
some
should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and
teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry for building up
the
body of Christ,"
All members of the body have different gifts and functions. The
purpose
of the leadership is to promote the development of the ministries of all
the
members. As all perform their proper functions, the body will come to
perfect
unity.
Every church has a unique call from the Lord. They need to discern
clearly what God's purpose for them is and how they are to pursue it.
The Bride of Christ
We all like babies; but no one really wants them to stay babies.
Surely
no man wants to marry a baby. Jesus is no exception. He is coming back
for a
mature Brideā"one who is on His level in holiness and obedience to the
Father,
one who shares His vision, His purposes, and His work, one who loves as
He
loves, and is prepared to spend eternity with Him.
The Song of Songs gives us an analogy of the process by which the
bride
is prepared. The lover comes leaping over mountains and invites the
beloved
to join him. Initially, she is not ready to respond and sulks in her
room.
The invitation is repeated in different ways. Gradually, through his
wooing
and her bitter lessons, she learns to respond instantly. Eventually they
can
go forth hand in hand to look at their fields. They have learned to
respond
to each other, to think and act as one person. In Ephesians 5, the
relationship of husband and wife is seen as a picture of the
relationship of
Christ to the church. He cleanses the church of all impurities,
nourishes her
by being the Word, and He gives His life for her. The church, in turn,
submits totally to Him, allowing Him to do His perfect work in her life.
In Revelation 19, we read about the culmination of this process when
the
whole host of heaven rejoices:
Evaluation
Edwin Stube
Dear Jay,
The following quote was taken from the site sent by Revdeb
"They mostly deny a rapture in the classic sense. Some replace it
with individual raptures, a collective
transformation to immortality on earth, or none at all. This quote
is representative of the teaching "the doctrine of
the Rapture was a great and effective ruse of the enemy to implant
in the Church a retreat mentality ... already this
yoke has been cast off by the majority in the advancing church, and
it will soon be cast off by all." (Rick Joyner,
THE HARVEST )"
I must illustrate how far this going. This is what Rick Joyner really
wrote in the Harvest
copyright 1993 Rick Joyner, Morningstar Ministries:
"This is not the time to run-it is time for the church to draw her
spiritual sword and attack the strategies and
strongholds of the enemy. The doctrine of the pre-tribulation
[italics mine] rapture has been effective in
developing a retreat mentality in the church, but it will not
ultimately succeed. Already the majority in the
advancing church is casting off this yoke. As the Lord exhorted
through Isaiah:"
"Arise, shine; for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord
has risen upon you. For behold darkness will
cover the earth, and deep darkness the peoples; But the Lord will
rise upon you and His glory will appear upon
you (Isaiah 60:1-2)."
By leaving out "pre-tribulation" in their quote and capitalizing
"Rapture," they totally misrepresented what Mr Joyner has said.
At best this is mean spirited. I will not go where it is at it's worst,
but as a former journalist if I blow the dust off of my
Associated Press Liable and Slander Manual , I'm pretty sure I will find
what they've done is illegal in this country. This is the
strong hold of the enemy that Mr Joyner is talking about. please
circulate this.
They probably copied that quotation directly from the apologetics index
site w/o checking it out...as that quotation appears in the font from
the apologetics site. I get upset about this stuff easily then right
off
the bat I'm tempted to try to have satan cast out satan, and appeal to
eating at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ( my first reaction
was to write Joyner a letter to urge him to sue them) rather than the
tree of life, if we all wrote those folks love letter from the Christ
inside us to those people who are propagating and passing on lies we
might get something done for the Kingdom.
Sincerely in our precious Savior and soon coming King, Christ Jesus,
James Kelly
===============================
ADDENDUM December 15, 2000
The administrator of the [Unidentified site] contacted me reminding us of "joyner and your misquote" meaning us. Apparently MR. Joyner had written what had correctly been quoted on our discussion in 1993 but had written what was correctly quoted on this other site from an earlier edition of 1989/1990.
I have not studied under Rick Joyner but what I see from his site is that he preaches love and humility in the same way that I do. He also teaches that there is a civil war going on in the church and I also teach that there is a false religious system called Babylon with the anti-prophetic Jezebel spirit in the last days that will war against the remnant that is to restore the temple made without hands.
Praise God for Rick Joyner if he has the humility and the presence of mind to go back and correct any mistakes made. God is not through with us yet either and we should always hope to improve ourselves and not ever have the attitude that we have it all together. There is a distinct difference in restoration Christians and these heresy hunter cults in the guise of apologetics. The God of love will lead His true followers to love, forbear, forgive and teach restoration truths. The accuser of the brethren will lead his people to judge, condemn, dredge up the past and find fault in specific individuals that do not agree with their own private interpretations. Many of them are well meaning and searching for the truth but misled into taking up arms against flesh and blood instead of in the heavenlies. David was not allowed to build the temple because of a bloody sword but we are under grace, through repentance and forgiveness, these people can be restored.
As to the rapture, I will continue to teach that it is not an issue that should divide us so I will continue to get hate mail from both sides of the issue from those that are not part of this restoration.
Jay
===============================
Jay,
"For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth
pangs
together until now. And not only they, but we also who have the
firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body." (Rm
8:22-23)
I believe that the "we" in this scripture refers to the five fold
ministers.
We have received the first fruits of the Spirit, and thus we can stand
as
representatives of the headship of Christ in the Body. We still wait
therefore for the fullness of time where in the Body is perfected; "the
redemption of our body." This is what is spoken of as the manifestation
of
the sons of God.
In regard to who I am, my name is Jachan Watkis. I live in Hempstead, NY
(on
Long Island), and attend the Church of God of Prophecy. Although my
Church
does not fully accept the existence of the fivefold ministries, I am
still
led to remain with the fellowship. I know that God is working, and is
bringing us into His present truth. I truly enjoy being a member of this
list
and look forward to seeing it achieve its ends of being a means by which
unity of the faith is brought to the body of Christ. The vision for my
life
being of a similar nature, I now look to embark on the task of setting
up a
network of the various Churches (breaking through denominational and
doctrinal walls) in Hempstead. This being down with the sole purpose of
conquering this land thru effective ministry and demonstration of God's
love.
I would make a prayer request at this point in regard to this work.
Grace and peace to you all.
Jachan Watkis
Re: manifest sons
Dear Jay and List,
As the Lord began to teach me of "theosis", I began to understand this
was what
those early pioneers in Sasketchewan had been trying to express. So many
of the
western church rejected these teachers as if they were teaching some
strange
new heretical doctrine.. but it was no new doctrine! The entire Eastern
Church
has retained this belief, for the manifestation of the sons of God
(theosis)...
in Union with God. It is no heretical doctrine to the Eastern Church,
for the
earliest fathers taught, "God became man, that man might become God"
(Not by
nature, but by God's Graces being imparted to man).
As I continued to study and search out the foundations of this doctrine,
the
Lord continued to teach me through the Scriptures of His Desire for
glorification... for our glorification in Him, and His glorification in
us. We
all believe for these foundational Christian beliefs, but we think it
will be
in the "bye and bye". I believe it is now. I believe the manifest sons
of God
will be those blessed ones who take part in the First Resurrection. I
believe
that every believer who has pressed on into Union with Christ, will be
part of
that first-fruits Resurrection.
As part of the confirmation work in my heart, Our Lord brought me into
contact
with two brothers of ours who experienced "theosis" personally. One was
brought
to my home, for me to be his 'midwife-faith/coach' for a year, as he
came
through extreme 'confusion' (Babylon) where it seemed all the forces of
darkness that were allowed to buffet his physical/emotional/spiritual
body at
will. God allowing it for the destruction of anything that could be
destroyed
in this way. His faith held firm and he is another who awaits the rising
of the
Morning Star within him. This man lived in union with God 30 years ago
for over
three weeks. His 'normal' life was ruined, and he has lived the rest of
his
life, awaiting the completion of that 'taste' he was allowed. The second
brother from the extreme opposite side of our nation, experienced this
fully-enveloped state of union for less than a week. His life also has
been
lived now, faithfully awaiting the fulfillment of his 'taste'. I believe
the
Lord brought these two witnesses to confirm what He had been asking me
to
research in the dusty old records of Church History.
These ones will be manifesting Jesus in the earth. They will not be part
of the
5-fold ministry as such (IMHO), although they will manifest all the
giftings
and
callings of the 5-fold ministry, having become the Living Tabernacle of
the
Lord Jesus Christ Himself... Yet, He who has the Spirit without measure
shall
also fully inhabit these first-fruits of the Resurrection, children of
the
Resurrection... the ones who truly did lose their life here, that they
might
gain His Life. They shall be the SHKN of the Lord, the Tabernacle of His
Glory.
As far as working for the "withness" or Koinonia of the Spirit, in the
elect, I
believe we are the little rock in Daniel's prophecy.. the one untouched
by any
man's hand. We come into One accord, as we each one, press on into union
with
Christ, being "beheaded" as such, as we bring all our carnal mind and
thoughts
into submission to the Spirit of God within us. As we submit to Christ
Jesus,
coming into Union with Him in Love, we find we are in union with all
those who
also have pressed on into this Divine Union with Christ. The Unity is
already
there...
we just discover it.
We are being drawn into fellowship with all those others who also are
being
drawn into the Love of God....as we begin to relate to one another as
"people"
rather
than the denominations which have kept us divided, we find we really
have the
One MOST IMPORTANT belief in common. We have put our Faith and Trust and
Love
in Christ Jesus, our Lord! With this in common, all the other issues
become
very insignificant... and the Body rises up in Union, in response to the
Call
of God's Love... rising up from the boxes which have divided us. I
believe
there was a treasure in each of the boxes though, and those from within
each
box, who have the ears to hear the Call to Love, rise up bringing the
treasure
preserved in their box, bringing all the gifts to lay at the feet of our
Beloved Lord. We are the treasure. :)
Just a few of my ponderings on the subject.
The Lord continues to speak to me in vision and prophetic teaching
concerning
these thing. I do not have the whole light, but one little part that I
pray is
complementary to what others are hearing/seeing/understanding in the
Spirit.
Your sister, Linda the Beguine
Jay; My name is Roy Muise and I live in yarmouth, Nova Scotia Canada. I
was
brought up as a Roman Catholic and went to church until I was
approximately
14 years of age. I had never heard the gospel preached until I was 35
years
of age at which time I received the Lord as my Savior. I then returned
to
the Catholic Church but after about three months I saw that their
preaching
was not Bible based but man made doctrines. I then left the RC church
and
began attending a non denominational church. After about 10 years I left
that church and went to Pentecostal as well as Church of God. About five
years ago I went back to the original non denominational church and
attended
there for a further 4 years. About 2 years ago the pastor began teaching
that all blessings etc., had to come through him and after hearing this
for
eight months I decided to leave. I have not been to a "organized" church
since December 1999 and I truly feel the Lord led me out of the church.
I am
currently not attending anywhere and am praying for the leading of the
Lord
as to direction.I am enjoying receiving the discussions, etc from the
group.
In Christ, Roy Muise
Hi Jay,
Whats up?. My name is Steve Momcilovich(I think you
already know my first name). I live in Bear, Delaware.
I am 16. I was raised in a charismatic background.
I didn't truly accept Jesus Christ until I was 10 or
11.
Jesus is awesome.
In Christ,
Hi Jay,
As to that Personal Paragraph....
RevDeb
Jay,
Dear Jay,
My name is Eric Olson, and I am from Baltimore, Maryland, although I am
currently a student at Princeton University in New Jersey. I was raised
nominally Lutheran but not Christian until the Lord spoke to me at a
church
retreat in 1995. I spent the next couple years looking for spiritual
direction in the Lutheran church. In recent years I have found myself
identifying more with Evangelicals. In the last year I have been led by
the spirit into the "local churches" founded by Watchman Nee. I see
this
group as a way to help bridge the divisions created in the Church by
politics and theology. In particular, I believe that it is essential
that
Christians from different churches and backgrounds worship together and
praise the Lord with one voice. As for my own future I am still waiting
for direction. Mostly I am trying to find a way to shape my life so as
to
give the firstfruits of my efforts to God and to others, rather than to
the
world.
August 18, 2000
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing
I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto
those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in
Christ Jesus.
15 ¶Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in
any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the
same rule, let us mind the same thing.
All of creation groans in travail awaiting the manifestation of the
sons
of God (Romans 8:18). The sons of God are people who have attained to
the
likeness of Christ. They can be men or women just as the bride of Christ
is
made up of both. 1 John 3 explains that we are fortunate to be born as
children of God. But John goes on to say that when we see Jesus as He
is, we
will be like Him. The children of God grow into sons of God as they
continue
to look at Him.
Jesus revealed His glory in the world through the miracles He did.
It is
said of His first miracle of providing wine at a wedding in Cana that
his
glory was revealed and His disciples believed in Him. Day by day, His
authority and His glory were manifested in miraculous feeding of crowds,
stilling of storms, healing the sick, casting out demons, confusing the
Pharisees, and raising the dead. He trained His first disciples to
continue
these manifestations of His glory, and He left instructions for us to do
likewise.
Miracles have to be spoken into existence by saying words God gives
us to
say. Jesus used words of command to still storms, cast out demons, heal
sickness, raise dead people, and wither a fig tree. He spoke
authoritative
words of instruction to His disciples to feed multitudes, and to
servants to
provide wine for the wedding feast in Cana. When Jesus sent out His
disciples
on ministry training journeys, He told them to cast out demons and heal
the
sick. When they came back, they reported, "Wow! Even the demons are
subject
to us in Your Name!" They had commanded the works of God's hand and seen
the
result.
The conditions for the sons of God to be manifested are hearing and
obeying. This will involve laying aside our own natural wisdom, ability,
and
experience (except, of course, our experience of God's presence) and
inviting
His presence to flood our fellowship, our church, our community, and
nations.
We know that the church has to be in unity. At His last supper with
His
disciples, Jesus prayed that we would all be one as He and His Father
are
one. This prayer has to be fulfilled before Jesus comes again. If the
members
of the body are scattered, here an arm, there a foot, there an ear,
where
will the Head be placed at His coming? In terms of the worldwide mission
of
the church, unity is an absolute necessity. Our divisions give witness
to a
debatable gospel and to a people who cannot agree on anything.
The ultimate destiny of the church is to become the Bride of Christ.
This
speaks of a level of maturity beyond our present knowledge and
experience. "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;
it was granted her to be clothed with fine linen,
bright and pure, for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
Faced with the scriptural pattern suggested above, we can either
pass it
off as impractical or outdated, or we can take it seriously. If we
decide to
do the latter, we can well begin by meditating on the above propositions
and
comparing them with the present state of the churches we know. We can
repent
where necessary on behalf of ourselves and our churches for any
shortcomings
we may notice. We can then ask the Lord to do whatever is necessary to
make
us mature sons of God who can manifest His glory in our lives and
ministry.
He who is the Word will also speak into the life of His church to
prepare her
as His spotless Bride.
[Unidentified site]
I apologize for continuing with this manifest sons topic, but I was out
of
town last week with no computer access. I just received these messages
this
week, and I would like to add a little something to the discussion.
I believe the manifest sons represent the perfected Bride/Body of
Christ. The
manifestation speaks of the glory of God being revealed in all that will
be
called His son. The manifestation does not come at one time, but is
dependent on individuals. All have received power to become sons of God
(Jn
1:12), but it is not until we are led by His Spirit (Rm 8:14) and share
in
the fellowship of His suffering (Rm 8:16-17) that we will attain full
sonship.
While the fivefold ministry is integral to the revealing of the truths
necessary for the manifestation to come to pass, we are not that
manifestation. We have been manifested as sons, as an example to the
Body, so
that all may come to that glorified state.
There are similarities and differences in my understanding concerning
this
"faith-expectation" which lives in my heart. Several years ago, I asked
the
Lord what was His Purpose in creating man? His answer led me through
years of
reading the early church writings, searching for what I did not know..
but I
knew that I would "recognize" it when I found it. I found it in the
Eastern
Orthodox teachings concerning "theosis".. or Union with God. As I poured
over
the writings of the eastern church fathers, my heart was stirred with
excitement, as their Love and Adoration for the Trinity began to flow
into my
spirit. My faith was expanded, as I began to understand the Father's
Heart
which so longs for this Union. I began to grasp the wonder of the
Eastern
Church's mystical theology.. a theology which provides room and respect
for the
Holy Spirit's ministry in the Church... a theology which expects
believers to
press on in experiential understanding of God's Desire for Union with
us!
This group will go wherever God wants it to go.
I see myself in a band in the future, cause thats
where I know God is sending me.
We formed the band already, but we need money for
equipment.
Please pray for us as we embark on this journey.
Steve
My name is Anita and I come from Catholic background and as a child of
seven years old I accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior in a
Pentecostal church that my grandmother attended. At that time no one
else in
my family attended church. I live in Columbus, Ohio and at present I
lead
Praise and Worship and pray with an intecessory prayer group. We are
believing for Revival in Ohio and in our city. I recently attended a
conference in Toronto, Canada on WE THE BRIDE. Mike Bickle and Marc
Dupont
and the Arnott's were the speakers. I truly believe that I am a manifest
son
of God and that I am
a Bride of Christ. I know that the presence of the Lord and His great
love
for me lead me on to the light. I am praying and ask for prayer for my
family relationships. I know that the Lord is working on me in this
area.
What better place to start than that!
Thank you for your insight and for having this page on the net.
Anita
I touched on some of my church background in my last post, and the
short-paragraph limit wouldn't work real well for me to go into more
detail - it just wouldn't fit; so I will just briefly mention a few
goals,
subjects I would like to discuss, some suggestions:
Goals: ( Apostolic/Prophetic ) the Restoration of the Church Behind the
Walls ( Prisons ), and its establishment according to the Biblical plan
proper Foundation and operation of the Five-fold Ministry, the
equipping of
the Body, Purification of the Worship and Praise, Prayer, etc. ) , the
total
Restoration and Establishment of the Individual, and in the Integration
with
the Restored Church outside the Walls. I am also concerned with the
Establishment, Correction, and Operation of the Church ( the Church in
general ), and the Revelation of the Person of Our Lord Jesus Christ (
and
specifically, His Beauty. ) I also would like to have a number of books
published, pertaining to these subjects, and would also like to publish
my
Christian Poetry, and other types of Poetry as well. I am also
specifically
interested in Inner Healing, the Expressive, Creative Arts as Ministry
and
Therapy ( especially Poetry Therapy ), and Victim/Offender Mediation (
and
tons of other things.....darn this short paragraph stuff.....)
Discussion Topics: The deep work of the Cross and the Blood in an
individual life, in the intentional, voluntary, by-invitation sense.
Spiritual Perception, Spiritual Discernment, and the Nature of Delusion
A Suggestion: Jay, I thought it might be interested to create personal
pages ( or whatever you might call it ) for a way for each of us to
describe
ourselves, our callings/giftings, our goals, etc. in detail.
( I like the idea of an "action group" too, but think we need to find
out
more about us first. )
( Deborah Cancel ( pronounced "Kahn- SELL" ) , Honey Brook, PA )
Blessings on you in the mighty name of Jesus. I just wanted to let you
know a
little about myself to let you know who's out here. Also to let you know
that
your website is appreciated and building up the Body in preparation for
Him.
I am 38 years old. I was born on the Island of Malta in the
mediterranean.
This is where Paul was shipwrecked in ACTS 28. We came to the States in
1975
and I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area (north of). In 1983 I joined
the
military and I move around quite a bit. I had grown up catholic, but
never
really followed anything. When I came to the Lord in 1992, I had not
been to
a Church in 12 years. It was in the Church of God (And., IN) that I had
come
to the Lord. I have since broke off because their non-belief of the
five-fold
and baptism of the Holy Ghost, since I had been baptized by the Spirit.
Now
they avoid me. The Lord got a hold of me and I began teaching and
preaching.
He matured me very fast. I became "licensed" and "ordained" and
Pastored. I
left for Germany in 1996 (this was my Arabia), and now have returned to
the
States. I am now serving in a COGIC until the Lord calls me out to my
(the
Lord's) ministry. I feel a tug and calling toward the apostolic and am
fervently studying and preparing myself for that time. I started my
search a
year ago. Your website is a lot of help to me. I thank you. God bless
you.
love in Jesus, Joseph (comments welcome).
My name is Bill Caraway and I am from Washington, DC, USA. My mother
and
father were each of different denominations, but each delighted in the
opportunity to profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and the true Son
of
the Living God. My mother raised 8 children and my oldest brother is a
fire
and brimstone minister. He was on fire for the Lord very early in my
life
and he exposed me to many different "religious" organizations during my
youth. Needless to say, I was exposed to the business side of it all
and
was completely turned off. One day, after a life-changing, traumatic
realization took place in my life, I had no where to turn. I picked up
the
bible and began to read Matthew. Once I got past the genealogies, my
soul
felt like it was being fed and I began to realize what I had never known
-
the love of Jesus. I seek to live by the Spirit now. I truly believe
that
you, Jay, are on the right track with your espousing of the Manifest
Sons.
I also believe that walking by faith is walking by the Spirit, and it is
through the realization of this that the gifts of the Holy One are
manifesting today. Continue the feeding, Jay. May all of our Spirits
grow
into oneness if it be God's will.Latter Rain Discussion Archives
The Lord has given us the grace to reconcile the children to their Fathers
As One Body
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